MOBomberFan Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Do you ever worry that another team might target an injury if they knew specifically what to target? I'm not sure how unrealistic this may be, but it seems to me if a team knew a left shoulder or a wonky elbow was hurting they might go out of their way to whack it a couple times. I can understand not disclosing the details of an injury. I think an organization that holds cards close to their chest has the right idea. Bigblue204, SPuDS and Doublezero 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Khari Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Off the top of my head... Why do I care what ailment a player has... I like to work with facts, not conjecture. (Stops fan arguments. Some fans know that an injury is something serious, others know that it's really nothing others know that the player is just doggin it, still others know it's something that's embarrassing to a player like a kick in the nuts. The actual facts get rid of all these dumb arguments.) I like to know if this is part of a recurring problem or something new. (Example: Does Addison have another concussion, is it his knee or is it something else?) I don't trust the info coming from the Bombers regarding injury time frames. (A day becomes a day or two becomes several days becomes ????) I like to know if we have to replace a guy going forward or if it's just a day or two off. (Losing Bryant or Picard for any length of time would be a huge problem) I like my HC to treat everyone like an adult and know that they can handle the truth when the get it. (I hate the sneering, the lack of information, the barely suppressed 'You don't need to know anything' that O'Shea uses. Media's part of his job. Get better at it or the media will bite him as soon as they can.) You say you like to work with facts and not conjecture yet you have already shown in the past that you will only believe what the coach says if it fits what you currently believe to be the truth. So even if he fully disclosed injuries, there is a good chance that you would choose to believe he is lying. As for timeframes, injuries aren't always an exact science. Players have setbacks while training or rehabbing. The truth is that there is a very small percentage of fans that follow these things as closely as the people on this site do, and satisfying their curiosity does not out weigh the cons of fully disclosing injuries. The way I see it is that there are two main reasons why they don't disclose injuries: 1) First, medical conditions are a personal matter and a player would have to agree to have their injury disclosed for a coach to get up in public and do so. This is a matter of a right to privacy between a player and a doctor. I've heard Maurice say this a number of times in his interviews for Jets players. That due to privacy of medical information, he does not have the right to disclose ailments of other people without their permission. Is he making that up to not answer the question? Possibly, I'm not a privacy lawyer, but that explanation certainly makes sense to me. 2) Injuries rarely fully heal during the season and they won't other teams targeting those injuries to take a player out during a game. This is just common sense and the reason why most teams in any sport don't fully disclose injury information. As for how O'Shea treats the media. I can understand why he has the disdain he does for the questions they ask, but I agree he needs to work on how he handles them better. Not sure he needs to handle them better, why should he when you look at garbage pieces like this ... http://www.winnipegsun.com/2015/06/02/bombers-new-free-agents-go-down-at-training-camp. I can guarantee if he was told the injuries PF would still put these kind of season is lost type stories up ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBURGESS Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Off the top of my head... Why do I care what ailment a player has... I like to work with facts, not conjecture. (Stops fan arguments. Some fans know that an injury is something serious, others know that it's really nothing others know that the player is just doggin it, still others know it's something that's embarrassing to a player like a kick in the nuts. The actual facts get rid of all these dumb arguments.) I like to know if this is part of a recurring problem or something new. (Example: Does Addison have another concussion, is it his knee or is it something else?) I don't trust the info coming from the Bombers regarding injury time frames. (A day becomes a day or two becomes several days becomes ????) I like to know if we have to replace a guy going forward or if it's just a day or two off. (Losing Bryant or Picard for any length of time would be a huge problem) I like my HC to treat everyone like an adult and know that they can handle the truth when the get it. (I hate the sneering, the lack of information, the barely suppressed 'You don't need to know anything' that O'Shea uses. Media's part of his job. Get better at it or the media will bite him as soon as they can.) You say you like to work with facts and not conjecture yet you have already shown in the past that you will only believe what the coach says if it fits what you currently believe to be the truth. So even if he fully disclosed injuries, there is a good chance that you would choose to believe he is lying. As for timeframes, injuries aren't always an exact science. Players have setbacks while training or rehabbing. The truth is that there is a very small percentage of fans that follow these things as closely as the people on this site do, and satisfying their curiosity does not out weigh the cons of fully disclosing injuries. The way I see it is that there are two main reasons why they don't disclose injuries: 1) First, medical conditions are a personal matter and a player would have to agree to have their injury disclosed for a coach to get up in public and do so. This is a matter of a right to privacy between a player and a doctor. I've heard Maurice say this a number of times in his interviews for Jets players. That due to privacy of medical information, he does not have the right to disclose ailments of other people without their permission. Is he making that up to not answer the question? Possibly, I'm not a privacy lawyer, but that explanation certainly makes sense to me. 2) Injuries rarely fully heal during the season and they won't other teams targeting those injuries to take a player out during a game. This is just common sense and the reason why most teams in any sport don't fully disclose injury information. As for how O'Shea treats the media. I can understand why he has the disdain he does for the questions they ask, but I agree he needs to work on how he handles them better. 1) In this day and age, it's possible that explanation makes some sense. I kind of doubt that players are ever asked if it's ok to disclose their injuries. It's easy for Management to use it as an excuse though. I'd guess the real reason is that coaches are control freaks and they don't want any info to get out just in case someone can use it against the team. 2) This argument is often used and it's pretty shaky at best. At the playing speed in the pros it's almost impossible to target another players injury directly during the play. Also most players know that if they target another players injury, that they will get the same in return. These guys all take the same risks and they are more of a brotherhood than most fans think. 3) I don't expect timeframes to be an exact science. Knowing what the injury actually is would give anyone who can google a good idea of the actual timeframe needed to recover. 4) I don't trust what the coaches say because they tend to lie to the media a lot or give half answers or ignore the questions and rant on about what they want to. If they chose to be up front and honest about most things, then I'd believe most things they say, but quite honestly, they are spinning the best case scenario most, if not all the time. 5) The media asks some dumb and leading questions. No argument from me on that one. How the coaches handle it says a lot about they kind of person they are IMHO. Media is a big part of a HC's job description, especially when the other members of his staff aren't allowed to talk to the media. Doing it badly reflects badly on the team. Doing it really badly, like Kelly, earns you a quick trip to the unemployment line. Real leaders handle the media well and that doesn't mean treating them with disdain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 For the most part, the media I've asked like Mike O'Shea. Oddly enough, they seem to be the ones who write the more football oriented pieces. I think it says a lot about the people who complain about what O'Shea says in public that they'd prefer he reveal every bit of information they feel they are entitled to as fans as opposed to doing what he feels is best to give his team the best chance to win. Noeller, Bigblue204, SPuDS and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOBomberFan Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 2) This argument is often used and it's pretty shaky at best. At the playing speed in the pros it's almost impossible to target another players injury directly during the play. Also most players know that if they target another players injury, that they will get the same in return. These guys all take the same risks and they are more of a brotherhood than most fans think. I agree that doing it at game speed would be pretty challenging. It's the opportunistic plays a player can make after the whistle or against a prone player that I'm thinking of. Think Kuale vs Buck or Kadri elbowing Fraser on a routine play. edited for english Bigblue204 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOBomberFan Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/multimedia/video/sports/free-press-blue-bombers-training-camp-report-day-3-305890741.html Wiecek and Tait talk a lot about the changes made to our D and take a couple shots at Etcheverry in the process. Someone makes a nice grab (I think) in the background starting at 2:00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.O.A.B. Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Austin is not really good with the media but since he led his team to consecutive Grey Cup appearances he's keeping his job. Paul LaPolice was good with the media, but where is he now? Tim Burke was good with the media, but where is he now? If O'shea will lead this team to the Grey Cup he will certainly keep this job, regardless of how bad (or good) is he handling the media. Bigblue204 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 The media absolutely LOVED Tim Burke. That really says it all, doesn't it? He's the poster boy for how not to be a head coach. Bigblue204 and blitzmore 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuranBoldenRules Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 For the most part, the media I've asked like Mike O'Shea. Oddly enough, they seem to be the ones who write the more football oriented pieces. I think it says a lot about the people who complain about what O'Shea says in public that they'd prefer he reveal every bit of information they feel they are entitled to as fans as opposed to doing what he feels is best to give his team the best chance to win. It's worth noting too that O'Shea does way more media than he is required to. He's called into CJOB's Sports Show for interviews a couple times in the last week beyond his Monday show, he also calls into TSN 1290 fairly often for interviews which he does not have to do. There is some truth to the saying that you get what you give. Seems that the media who act in a respectful, professional manner get a lot of time from O'Shea. Jaxon and Rich 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
do or die Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Media loved Dr. Jeff, as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue204 Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Anyone have any other updates on the day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbill2004 Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 For the most part, the media I've asked like Mike O'Shea. Oddly enough, they seem to be the ones who write the more football oriented pieces. I think it says a lot about the people who complain about what O'Shea says in public that they'd prefer he reveal every bit of information they feel they are entitled to as fans as opposed to doing what he feels is best to give his team the best chance to win. It's worth noting too that O'Shea does way more media than he is required to. He's called into CJOB's Sports Show for interviews a couple times in the last week beyond his Monday show, he also calls into TSN 1290 fairly often for interviews which he does not have to do. There is some truth to the saying that you get what you give. Seems that the media who act in a respectful, professional manner get a lot of time from O'Shea. Bombers are in the business of selling tickets. Having Oshea on 1290 and CJOB is free advertising for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doublezero Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Do you ever worry that another team might target an injury if they knew specifically what to target? I'm not sure how unrealistic this may be, but it seems to me if a team knew a left shoulder or a wonky elbow was hurting they might go out of their way to whack it a couple times. I can understand not disclosing the details of an injury. I think an organization that holds cards close to their chest has the right idea. You are correct. Opposing teams are very thorough in their scouting and roster analysis. It's not that they would intentionalyl go after a specific player/injury. But the information that a player has a specific injury can and will be exploited, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbill2004 Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 @WFPEdTait: #Bombers C Dom Picard took a finger in eye at camp. Finished session. SB Addison Richards will be back on field in couple of days. #bn TBURGESS, northof60 and Noeller 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacklewasher Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Nobody could handle the media like Mike Kelly though. Guy was a genious..... Mark F 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbill2004 Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Nobody could handle the media like Mike Kelly though. Guy was a genious.....Except when he swore at Bob Irving on air. shadybob, wbbfan and Noeller 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark H. Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Nobody could handle the media like Mike Kelly though. Guy was a genious.....Except when he swore at Bob Irving on air. That too, was classic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelownabomberfan Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Nobody could handle the media like Mike Kelly though. Guy was a genious..... Even though he can't spell genius, I think TW was being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPuDS Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I think it's safe to say TuscaloosaBlue had us all fooled equally because you and a few others were gullible and fell for it? Even defended him? Lolol. nope. not fooled in the least and from his first post it was insanely obvious.. Goalie and blitzmore 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Oh Spuds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Liver Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I love how much derailing is going on lately. Just off the charts. Ha ha ha ha..... Talk of derailing reminds me of one of my favorite old-timey wrestlers, "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan. Man that guy was awesome. I love how much derailing is going on lately. Just off the charts. Ha ha ha ha..... Talk of derailing reminds me of one of my favorite old-timey wrestlers, "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan. Man that guy was awesome. Sweet baby Jeebus, Neanderthal Man is alive and wrastlin' on TV! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmillerywg Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 The media absolutely LOVED Tim Burke. That really says it all, doesn't it? He's the poster boy for how not to be a head coach. TIm Burke was a very likeable person, he was just in a bad situation...I agreed he wasn't a good head Coach material but he did the best he could and I respect the person he is... Fred C Dobbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebusrankin Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 My sources tell me that the Bombers will practice today. I also hear some guys will catch the ball and some will not. Also some OL will make their blocks, others not. Trust me, I know Mike O'Shea. I mean not personally but I know who he is. Now I have to leave my Mom's basement so I can go to work. Somebody has to salt those fries, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 but I agree he needs to work on how he handles them better. Football coaches in general seem to be living in a culture of super secrecy and paranoia about revealing something. CFL and NFL. It's carried to extremes. "on to Cincinatti" Paul Maurice is good with media. No vague non answers. A press conference after every game, he still tries to answer questions forthrightly, and without insulting the fans with generalities. I wish O'Shea could be more like Maurice. But Maurice has been through the media cauldron, and must have learned a lot from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Ya Maurice with those never vague upper and lower body injuries Mark F and SPuDS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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