bigg jay Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 (edited) 48 minutes ago, bluto said: I see it as at least a possibility that the league just gave out a suspension 225% longer than any it has ever given as a CYA. The longest suspension they ever gave to my knowledge is 4 games. And those are for violent offences which we can all see and replay in slow mo. Some of them would put you in jail for 10 years. In the Kelly matter, we have a he-said she-said. He is a man who has made ludicrously bad choices in the past and seems to still not get the gravity of what it is to be the face of a team and the league. She is an employee who wanted her contract renewed (weird, if you were an SA victim) but because she didn't get the enhanced skills and qualifications which her employer told her to pursue in her exit interview last season, she wasn't brought back and soon after filed a suit. This is what we know. Whatever you think of my character notwithstanding, these seem to be the incontrovertible facts that we have available and we may never get the rest of it after the settlement and the NDA is signed. Both sides (at least according to her lawsuit and the Argos statement of defense), say at least some of the incidents happened in front of others. If the investigation got confirmation of what happened (one way or the other), it's no longer a he said/she said situation. Edited May 8 by bigg jay Rod Black, rebusrankin, HardCoreBlue and 6 others 6 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardCoreBlue Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 1 hour ago, bluto said: I see it as at least a possibility that the league just gave out a suspension 225% longer than any it has ever given as a CYA. The longest suspension they ever gave to my knowledge is 4 games. And those are for violent offences which we can all see and replay in slow mo. Some of them would put you in jail for 10 years. In the Kelly matter, we have a he-said she-said. He is a man who has made ludicrously bad choices in the past and seems to still not get the gravity of what it is to be the face of a team and the league. She is an employee who wanted her contract renewed (weird, if you were an SA victim) but because she didn't get the enhanced skills and qualifications which her employer told her to pursue in her exit interview last season, she wasn't brought back and soon after filed a suit. This is what we know. Whatever you think of my character notwithstanding, these seem to be the incontrovertible facts that we have available and we may never get the rest of it after the settlement and the NDA is signed. A bit of an ironic statement considering a lot of your verbiage on this matter seems to bring into question the character of the person who filed a grievance. wbbfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booch Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 Generally where there is smoke...there is fire....Kelly being an known arsonist basically as well.....it all adds up in my opinion to lean in the former trainers way....also if independant investigators , whom talked to anyone who witnessed what went on, and it has been on record already there were several incidents that others witnessed...and they went back with their findings to the CFL which prompted them to suspend....me thinks its all legit. Also the fact that for yrs now the CFL has been pretty lacksidasical, and overly lenient with other punishments, and they came out with the biggest non-violent suspension...ever.....obviously what Kelly did warranted it...The dude is a stain and I doubt he will ever change, so hopefully this is the last we see of him....and on his way out revoke his MOP and give it to the rightful player as well wbbfan, HardCoreBlue, GCJenks and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 1 hour ago, bluto said: The longest suspension they ever gave to my knowledge is 4 games. And those are for violent offences which we can all see and replay in slow mo. Some of them would put you in jail for 10 years. I do find it funny that the league treats someone being a pervert/ass is a much more heinous crime compared to Garrett Marino intentionally trying to cause a serious injury. 9 games for being a perv off the field... 2 games for possibly ending someones career on the field for committing a serious assault. The leagues suspends a player for only 6 games for punching a fan.... I hate to agree with Bluto but Kelly should be getting a 3 game suspension, have to enter in a program and complete it, and any future incidents off the field at that point no tolerance. If Kelly gets 9 games then moving forward any crazy **** like Marino or Edwards HAS to be a full season suspension. Any thing like Kenny Lawler getting a DUI should also be 9 games minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 5 minutes ago, Brandon said: I do find it funny that the league treats someone being a pervert/ass is a much more heinous crime compared to Garrett Marino intentionally trying to cause a serious injury. 9 games for being a perv off the field... 2 games for possibly ending someones career on the field for committing a serious assault. The leagues suspends a player for only 6 games for punching a fan.... I hate to agree with Bluto but Kelly should be getting a 3 game suspension, have to enter in a program and complete it, and any future incidents off the field at that point no tolerance. If Kelly gets 9 games then moving forward any crazy **** like Marino or Edwards HAS to be a full season suspension. Any thing like Kenny Lawler getting a DUI should also be 9 games minimum. The answer is treating other violations more seriously not treating this one less seriously, imo. Bigblue204, blue85gold, Wanna-B-Fanboy and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 22 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said: A bit of an ironic statement considering a lot of your verbiage on this matter seems to bring into question the character of the person who filed a grievance. Well I do have questions about an employee who was so terribly maltreated that they apply to come back for an entire year more of the alleged S abuse. 6 minutes ago, Jesse said: The answer is treating other violations more seriously not treating this one less seriously, imo. I wouldn't have any issue with that at all if it were the case. Bigblue204 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 48 minutes ago, bigg jay said: Both sides (at least according to her lawsuit and the Argos statement of defense), say at least some of the incidents happened in front of others. If the investigation got confirmation of what happened (one way or the other), it's no longer a he said/she said situation. Sorry Jay, but it is precisely still a he-said she-said... but it just becomes a they-said they-said. Rod Black and Rex_Banner 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickem Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 Kelly carries a lot of baggage...or garbage, if you prefer, with him when he was signed by the argo's....There's an old saying that always rings true....a leopard never changes it's spots....I don't know why he didn't decide to change his ways when he came north...obviously he didn't..9 games is getting off light and he's lucky he wasn't chucked by the league....Kelly has the chance to re-offend and the league is better off without that kind of trauma and slight that goes with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand1.5 Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 24 minutes ago, Jesse said: The answer is treating other violations more seriously not treating this one less seriously, imo. While this does seem harsh at first, I believe this is the best way moving forward. This should be the new precedent, in saying that one could very much have a solid argument that a DUI with an accident, off field assaults, weapon and/or drug charges, abuse of CFL drug testing staff or refs, clear repeated offences with severity as in Marino should have been higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Black Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 15 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said: Something tells me Miller wouldn't get within ten kms of any protestors. What if he was really really hungry? MOBomberFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Black Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 (edited) Kelly’s suspension is within the realm of reasonable discipline. Drawing from the penalties issued and agreed as reasonable in the NFL, Kelly’s loss in salary is nowhere near as prominent as those south of the border. NFL players have been fined - millions. He could appeal or grieve. If he were to persue legal recourse, he may not like what he gets. It’s possible his suspension gets reduced but the charge sticks after negotiating or exhausting processes, it cements his guilt, forever. Edited May 8 by Rod Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShyGuy Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 Did I accidently walk into a Chappelle show sketch or something Quote Prosecutor: What would it take to convince you that Mr. Kelly is guilty? Bluto: Okay, I'd have to see a video of him berating the trainer, two forms of government ID, a police officer there to verify the whole thing, four or five of my buddies and Pinball taking notes, and Jim Kelly there to confirm his identity Drunk Jim Kelly: That's my nephew, tell that woman how it is The complaint contains references to events that was witnessed by numerous people. What do you think is contained in the 87 page report that was generated? What everyone was having for breakfast that day? There is no legal hurdle the league has to clear here. By his actions they've determined he's violated their Violence against Women policy and has been disciplined as such. The CFLPA will have something to say about it, but it probably won't be in regards to the minimum length of it... more to the fact that as it's written it can be interpreted as an indefinite suspension... although there is precedent for such suspensions in sports leagues now thanks to Draymond Green in the NBA. HardCoreBlue, JCon, wbbfan and 4 others 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardCoreBlue Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 8 minutes ago, ShyGuy said: Did I accidently walk into a Chappelle show sketch or something The complaint contains references to events that was witnessed by numerous people. What do you think is contained in the 87 page report that was generated? What everyone was having for breakfast that day? There is no legal hurdle the league has to clear here. By his actions they've determined he's violated their Violence against Women policy and has been disciplined as such. The CFLPA will have something to say about it, but it probably won't be in regards to the minimum length of it... more to the fact that as it's written it can be interpreted as an indefinite suspension... although there is precedent for such suspensions in sports leagues now thanks to Draymond Green in the NBA. They (witnesses) said, They (don't like what the witnesses) said. Rod Black and JCon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue85gold Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 41 minutes ago, bluto said: Sorry Jay, but it is precisely still a he-said she-said... but it just becomes a they-said they-said. He-said, she-said (backed up by a detailed independent investigation with witnesses). You're talking out of your ass man Rod Black, Jesse, Stickem and 3 others 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue204 Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 1 hour ago, bluto said: Sure it is. It's what they told her and they said they have documented (saying that you documented something and not being able to prove it is a massive no-no in a lawsuit), and she didn't have them this season. Again, with the league handing down this large of suspension there 100% needs to be lots of evidence against Kelly. Just because you're not privy to it doesn't mean there's nothing there. It's a ridiculous claim to suggest the league is just handing suspensions out on rumours especially after an independent investigation. wbbfan, BigBlueFanatic and Rod Black 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Black Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 (edited) 17 minutes ago, blue85gold said: He-said, she-said (backed up by a detailed independent investigation with witnesses). You're talking out of your ass man 7 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said: Again, with the league handing down this large of suspension there 100% needs to be lots of evidence against Kelly. Just because you're not privy to it doesn't mean there's nothing there. It's a ridiculous claim to suggest the league is just handing suspensions out on rumours especially after an independent investigation. No adverse inference could ever be drawn from calling her desires to keep her job as “weird”. Edited May 8 by Rod Black BigBlueFanatic, Bigblue204 and wbbfan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geebrr Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 1 hour ago, bluto said: Sorry Jay, but it is precisely still a he-said she-said... but it just becomes a they-said they-said. Imagine giving perpetual **** up Chad Kelly the benefit of the doubt. Clearly the league found enough to validate a violation of their Code of Conduct, which I have to imagine goes through a lawyer first (or should). Noeller, Bigblue204 and wbbfan 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Negatron Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 (edited) Can we all just agree that Kelly is a wiener and the league is better off without him? TSN (and the league to some degree) both look like idiots for forcing him on us as the new face of the league, when everybody could tell something like this was the inevitable conclusion. Edited May 8 by Super Duper Negatron wbbfan, Stickem, Fred C Dobbs and 9 others 9 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 1 hour ago, Super Duper Negatron said: Can we all just agree that Kelly is a wiener and the league is better off without him? TSN (and the league to some degree) both look like idiots for forcing him on us as the new face of the league, when everybody could tell something like this was the inevitable conclusion. The answer is obvious on who they should market for the face of the league.... MOBomberFan, 17to85, Stickem and 4 others 4 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue204 Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 4 hours ago, Brandon said: I do find it funny that the league treats someone being a pervert/ass is a much more heinous crime compared to Garrett Marino intentionally trying to cause a serious injury. 9 games for being a perv off the field... 2 games for possibly ending someones career on the field for committing a serious assault. The leagues suspends a player for only 6 games for punching a fan.... I hate to agree with Bluto but Kelly should be getting a 3 game suspension, have to enter in a program and complete it, and any future incidents off the field at that point no tolerance. If Kelly gets 9 games then moving forward any crazy **** like Marino or Edwards HAS to be a full season suspension. Any thing like Kenny Lawler getting a DUI should also be 9 games minimum. I think a lot of it has to do with 2 things. 1- sign of the times. SA/SH is being taken Uber seriously which is appropriate IMO by today's business world(well the good ones anyway) and 2-violence, while being limited, is still very much a part of today's game. Harrassment is not at all part of the sport especially with staff that doesn't play. 2 hours ago, Geebrr said: Imagine giving perpetual **** up Chad Kelly the benefit of the doubt. Clearly the league found enough to validate a violation of their Code of Conduct, which I have to imagine goes through a lawyer first (or should). It's embarrassing at this point. JCon, Rex_Banner, Rod Black and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 4 hours ago, bluto said: Well I do have questions about an employee who was so terribly maltreated that they apply to come back for an entire year more of the alleged S abuse. You've never been in a job where you kept working there despite abuse from people above you? You've never known someone in the same situation? Sometimes people don't want to be driven from a job they like because of another person and they try and stick it out. Noeller, MOBomberFan and wbbfan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCon Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 Why do we always expect the victim to leave? Rod Black, wbbfan, Noeller and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBURGESS Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 14 minutes ago, JCon said: Why do we always expect the victim to leave? Why does anyone expect the victim to want to stay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardCoreBlue Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 3 minutes ago, TBURGESS said: Why does anyone expect the victim to want to stay? In most cases, it's not about expecting the victims to want to stay, it's about the complex reasons of why and how victims find it hard to leave abusive/toxic environments. BigBlueFanatic and Noeller 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Black Posted May 8 Report Share Posted May 8 21 minutes ago, JCon said: Why do we always expect the victim to leave? Next we’ll hear how she dressed provocatively at work and must have been asking for it, because “he said”. 9 minutes ago, TBURGESS said: Why does anyone expect the victim to want to stay? Her dream job. Aspirations for promotions… TBURGESS, Jesse and Noeller 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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