J5V Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 minute ago, 66 Chevelle said: I'm telling you, over time you see that Lapo would do it to any QB in his system... look at Nichols numbers since coming to Winnipeg... here's a hint, they've gone done each year... I believe you and I've been saying something similar for a while now. I do suspect that Collaros' diagram may look ... better, although I also suspect it would trend down over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost of Mike Kelly Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 Just because LaPo has that kind of continuity with what he wants out of a QB with his throws, doesn’t eliminate the fact that the QB still has to make his reads and decide which target to throw to. What we are seeing with Collaros is a willingness in the LaPo offense to use the medium-deep route more, and if the pocket collapses to escape pressure and still make those throws. Whereas Nichols seems to prefer dumping it off to his ‘safety route’ once Darvin or someone doesn’t seem open downfield and/or the pocket collapses before he gets a chance to make that call. Or he’ll throw it out of bounds. Decision making and maybe confidence (Collaros is on fire) being the ultimate difference between the two. But overall I still think Nichols and Collaros are cut from a similar cloth. Noeller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 It was interesting to see Collaros looking for a receiver, nothing there, and then clearly turning looking for another one, and throwing for a completion. ie. He's good at staying calm and looking around for an open receiver. MOBomberFan, B-F-F-C, NorthernSkunk and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, The Ghost of Mike Kelly said: Just because LaPo has that kind of continuity with what he wants out of a QB with his throws, doesn’t eliminate the fact that the QB still has to make his reads and decide which target to throw to. What we are seeing with Collaros is a willingness in the LaPo offense to use the medium-deep route more, and if the pocket collapses to escape pressure and still make those throws. Whereas Nichols seems to prefer dumping it off to his ‘safety route’ once Darvin or someone doesn’t seem open downfield and/or the pocket collapses before he gets a chance to make that call. Or he’ll throw it out of bounds. Decision making and maybe confidence (Collaros is on fire) being the ultimate difference between the two. But overall I still think Nichols and Collaros are cut from a similar cloth. there's no question they're EXTREMELY SIMILAR QBs. I said when we brought Collaros in that the best thing was that he'd be able to run Nichols playbook almost immediately. We'd immediately go back to where we were at the beginning of the season with a confident vet running the full playbook and Streveler as a gimmick weapon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66 Chevelle Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, The Ghost of Mike Kelly said: Just because LaPo has that kind of continuity with what he wants out of a QB with his throws, doesn’t eliminate the fact that the QB still has to make his reads and decide which target to throw to. What we are seeing with Collaros is a willingness in the LaPo offense to use the medium-deep route more, and if the pocket collapses to escape pressure and still make those throws. Whereas Nichols seems to prefer dumping it off to his ‘safety route’ once Darvin or someone doesn’t seem open downfield and/or the pocket collapses before he gets a chance to make that call. Or he’ll throw it out of bounds. Decision making and maybe confidence (Collaros is on fire) being the ultimate difference between the two. But overall I still think Nichols and Collaros are cut from a similar cloth. that hinges on the amount of time that the o line gives the QB... the last 3 games the o line has played very well, however, if I chart both Streveler's and Collaros' last regular season games you would see that they are indeed almost identical... but I will add that Lapo does seem to trust Collaros a bit more than the other two in regards to calling the deep ball... Collaros had three 20+ yd completions in the last game, the other two rarely saw 3 deep calls... which is good, but that is about the only real difference between the game plan... I've posted this before, but I'll add it again as it does illustrates how similar those 2 games I mentioned above are... the 'targets by depth' is telling... The Ghost of Mike Kelly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dee Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Blueandgold said: The fact that Zach Collaros in one year has won more playoff games than Matt Nichols in three years Yeah, that ‘fact’ certainly tells the ‘hole’ story. blue_gold_84 and JCon 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 I'm starting to think this was a good trade GCJenks, MOBomberFan, Jesse and 2 others 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBURGESS Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 18 hours ago, 66 Chevelle said: when this is where you are throwing the ball you had better have a high QB rating... See all the red dots on deep shots to the sidelines? PLAP's been calling it all year. It's the throw that Collaros is consistently completing that's made the big difference in the last 3 games. trueBlue83 and kelownabomberfan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Zaius Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 This thread aged worse than me Noeller, Nickthesizz, blue_gold_84 and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCon Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, TBURGESS said: See all the red dots on deep shots to the sidelines? PLAP's been calling it all year. It's the throw that Collaros is consistently completing that's made the big difference in the last 3 games. I see all the green and yellow dots. I see a lot of red dots where he obviously threw the ball out of bounds instead of throwing a pick. Fatty Liver 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernSkunk Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, JCon said: I see all the green and yellow dots. I see a lot of red dots where he obviously threw the ball out of bounds instead of throwing a pick. Are you saying every attempt that Matty would have made in that area would have been a pick ?...... are you saying his accuracy in that area is not good ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCon Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 Just now, NorthernSkunk said: Are you saying every attempt that Matty would have made in that area would have been a pick ?...... are you saying his accuracy in that area is not good ? No. blue_gold_84 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue_gold_84 Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 57 minutes ago, Atomic said: I'm starting to think this was a good trade Yeah, I agree. I've been on a steady diet of this all week: It's not bad with a pinch of salt. Mark F, Jesse and JCon 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBURGESS Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, JCon said: I see all the green and yellow dots. I see a lot of red dots where he obviously threw the ball out of bounds instead of throwing a pick. On the left side there are 10 red dots, 1 green and a yellow past 15 inside the numbers. On the right side there are 9 red dots and 3 yellows. Not sure how you can say that Nichols was throwing the ball away instead of throwing a pick 19 times out of 25 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCon Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, TBURGESS said: On the left side there are 10 red dots, 1 green and a yellow past 15 inside the numbers. On the right side there are 9 red dots and 3 yellows. Not sure how you can say that Nichols was throwing the ball away instead of throwing a pick 19 times out of 25 times. 6 on the left and 7 on the right are clearly Nichols throwing the ball out of bounds. TBURGESS, blue_gold_84, Wanna-B-Fanboy and 1 other 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Liver Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 3 hours ago, TBURGESS said: On the left side there are 10 red dots, 1 green and a yellow past 15 inside the numbers. On the right side there are 9 red dots and 3 yellows. Not sure how you can say that Nichols was throwing the ball away instead of throwing a pick 19 times out of 25 times. ....because Nichols threw the ball out of bounds intentionally at least 2-3 times every game, those numbers add up. TBURGESS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booch Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 in Nichols defense yes he did a lot of throw aways...better than a turn over for sure, but also a direct result of his lack of escapabilty to extend passing plays ala Zack...or ability to take off and get yards ala Strev..can we win with Nichols style..for sure and it's been proven..can we win with Strev's style, sporadically BUT if he gets next year to show he has developed his passing (or is allowed to gunsling a bit) then he could be unreal if he has developed...Can we win with Collaros skill-set..obviously yes...but is he someone you invest big in and will he last...thats the big question...and also...is it already decided by him he is going regardless so don't even bother..and risk alienating someone else?... Tracker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldkobra Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 I'm not too worried about the whole injury thing. It's football, injuries are a part of it. Nichols has as much injury history as Collaros. With the style Streveler plays, injuries are coming. Like it or not. So, imo, you go the best qb available. For me, its Collaros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernSkunk Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 31 minutes ago, Booch said: in Nichols defense yes he did a lot of throw aways...better than a turn over for sure, but also a direct result of his lack of escapabilty to extend passing plays ala Zack...or ability to take off and get yards ala Strev..can we win with Nichols style..for sure and it's been proven..can we win with Strev's style, sporadically BUT if he gets next year to show he has developed his passing (or is allowed to gunsling a bit) then he could be unreal if he has developed...Can we win with Collaros skill-set..obviously yes...but is he someone you invest big in and will he last...thats the big question...and also...is it already decided by him he is going regardless so don't even bother..and risk alienating someone else?... It's kind of funny when people say, " in Nichols defence it's better to throw it out of bounds rather than throw an interception "......wouldn't at least some of those throws actually been receptions by our recievers ?.....or simply an incompletion ?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booch Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 1 minute ago, NorthernSkunk said: It's kind of funny when people say, " in Nichols defence it's better to throw it out of bounds rather than throw an interception "......wouldn't at least some of those throws actually been receptions by our recievers ?.....or simply an incompletion ?.... i say in his defense because he rarely forces a ball if nobody is there...or nobody he "sees"...and since he isn't a runner...well take the safe road and play another down Personally I am not a fan of this mantra..I don't want to see a guy chuck into a stupid situation (double/triple coverage) but instead take a deep downfield shot...maybe you get a PI..maybe you strike gold..but thats also on the OC to have a route for that as well, and a lot of times we don't J5V and NorthernSkunk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 Collaros has a better deep ball than Nichols and it's really not close at all. And I like Matt Nichols. But health-issues aside, Collaros is the better QB. In my opinion... MOBomberFan, TBURGESS, J5V and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuranBoldenRules Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 22 hours ago, The Ghost of Mike Kelly said: Just because LaPo has that kind of continuity with what he wants out of a QB with his throws, doesn’t eliminate the fact that the QB still has to make his reads and decide which target to throw to. What we are seeing with Collaros is a willingness in the LaPo offense to use the medium-deep route more, and if the pocket collapses to escape pressure and still make those throws. Whereas Nichols seems to prefer dumping it off to his ‘safety route’ once Darvin or someone doesn’t seem open downfield and/or the pocket collapses before he gets a chance to make that call. Or he’ll throw it out of bounds. Decision making and maybe confidence (Collaros is on fire) being the ultimate difference between the two. But overall I still think Nichols and Collaros are cut from a similar cloth. The checkdowns are self preservation for Nichols in the sense that 2 and outs are graded higher than turnovers. It’s a mindset that’s allowed the defence to carry the team as they have been great at turning the ball over and winning field position. The Ghost of Mike Kelly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Liver Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 39 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said: The checkdowns are self preservation for Nichols in the sense that 2 and outs are graded higher than turnovers. It’s a mindset that’s allowed the defence to carry the team as they have been great at turning the ball over and winning field position. It would be interesting to know if most of those throws out of bounds are on 1st or 2nd downs, I'm thinking it's first and 10 as he usually looks for Harris on 2nd and 5 or 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Zaius Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) Strev has an absolutely insane ceiling, there's no way we can give up on him. I'd be okay with a 2 year extension structured so that in the second year he has a starter's salary. If we don't give it to him someone else will. One year stop-gap with Nichols or Collaros, then sink or swim. Edited November 22, 2019 by Dr Zaius J5V 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dee Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 What happens this Sunday will go a long way in determining ‘dis, ‘dat, and de ‘udder. J5V, bb.king and MOBomberFan 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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