LeBird Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Some times you get into a battle and realize rather quickly it's a hopeless case because you are out gunned and out maneuvered. Either you do the brave thing and sacrifice your trusty captain or you pull him to safety to fight again. You might have lost the battle but now we most likely have lost the war. Before he got his last shot it had become apparent nothing good was going to happen to him. These guys were coming at him untouched and that was not going to change. Which is worst for the players? How much better do they feel today about the rest of the year? Any player who did not realized what happened was all but inevitable was not paying attention. Proud but dead and so unnecessary. Tracker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Lol. Chipman? Seriously? These guys are loyal to a fault. Don't kid yourself there. Mark Chipman has no clue about football. Fact is if he wanted the bombers he'd already have them. Sorry but a private owner can't stop your QB from being injured. Chipman eh. No pav buy out. Hire Noel over better candidates. Don't kid yourself I know what you are trying to say here but funny story is that Chipman was a good enough football player to get a scholarship to the University of North Dakota and actually had a tryout with the Bombers. And even though he never made the team, I'd say that because of his playing days he does know a thing or two about football. And what is more, he now knows a thing or two about owning and running a sports franchise. Either way having played or knowing something about a sport is in no way a pre-requisite for owning a franchise and running it properly. People like Chipman need to be able to scout talent and put the right people in place to make good decisions. As for the Pav buyout and Noel hire, you cherry pick two very odd selections that were made by Cheveldayoff (not Chipman) in a litany of good decisions that the Jets management have made. Show me a football executive that doesn't have a decision or two that you can question in hindisight. Do I think Chipman will ever own the Bombers? No. Would I like that he did? Yes. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/a-proud-moment-for-the-humble-man-who-brought-pro-hockey-back-to-winnipeg/article1322359/ Born and raised in Winnipeg, Mr. Chipman was a passionate hockey fan but at the urging of his father, Robert, ended up pursuing football instead. "I grew up playing hockey," Mr. Chipman said. "I wish I had been a better player than I was. I played until I was 15 and then my father wisely made a decision for me. I was trying to play football and hockey and he gently steered me in the right direction." The switch to football paid off and Mr. Chipman ended up winning an athletic scholarship to the University of North Dakota, where he was a receiver and backup quarterback. He was good enough to merit a tryout with the Winnipeg Blue Bombers in 1983 and even managed to get into one exhibition game before being cut by legendary coach Cal Murphy. "Please don't think I was any kind of athlete," Mr. Chipman insisted, playing down his accomplishments. Mark F 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Do I think Chipman will ever own the Bombers? No. Would I like that he did? Yes. precisely. But one can hope. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Reading up on a tibial plateau fracture. Willy is done for the season. And that knee joint is going to be painful for the rest of his life and almost certainly arthritic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bustamente Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Chipman would have no interest in the team until the province pays off IGF tab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton, and Saskatchewan all are playing with 2nd and 3rd string qb's. so the world has not come to an end. Who knows maybe the Bombers get lucky and find a qb with NFL cuts coming in the next few weeks. Each of those quarterbacks have previous CFL exposure .. expecting an American QB to come in here and make any sort of impact without having previously experienced the league is not in the realm of realistic. (Smith was on the Argos PR last year) And Cato? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Liver Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 They say that behind every cloud lurks a silver lining, so I guess we're about to find out if that's true. As other posters have stated, this injury gives the team the opportunity to face reality and find out for certain if their backup QB of the future resides "in house" or whether they have to keep hunting. The ideal setup for building a contender is to duplicate what Cgy. has done with Mitchell and Tate and there is no better time to get started on that plan then the present. Willy is no longer a young buck so the Bombers have realistically 4-5 years to make runs for the Cup upon his back. If they can sustain a solid one-two punch at QB within that time frame their chances of actually winning a G.C. will increase significantly IMO. The spot light is now fixed upon Brohm and Marve to show all if they can rise to the challenge. They both deserve a chance as does Davis and with first team reps. during practice they will finally be given a fair opportunity to perform. Dr. Blue and Rod Black 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoochylde Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton, and Saskatchewan all are playing with 2nd and 3rd string qb's. so the world has not come to an end. Who knows maybe the Bombers get lucky and find a qb with NFL cuts coming in the next few weeks. Each of those quarterbacks have previous CFL exposure .. expecting an American QB to come in here and make any sort of impact without having previously experienced the league is not in the realm of realistic. (Smith was on the Argos PR last year) And Cato? Was with Montreal in camp this year .. but I'd suggest his success is more an exception than the rule .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.O.A.B. Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 With his franchise QB now our for long, and doubts cast on the backups, I wonder what Walters next move will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Liver Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 With his franchise QB now our for long, and doubts cast on the backups, I wonder what Walters next move will be. Hopefully he doesn't resort to scrap heapin'. WBBFanWest 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebusrankin Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 This just sucks. All I wanted was a playoff spot and the hope we might get hot and make the Grey Cup. Seems like we are screwed now again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPuDS Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Change of pace was totally in order. Watching Willy come in and march the ball for a touchdown to start the 3rd Q sends the wrong message to the team, and as a fan, that is not what I wanted to see. Exactly! He was the only QB capable of attempting s comeback. Taking him out would have been assinine. Suggesting it even is borderline "wtf are you thinking?" territory.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRT Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 With his franchise QB now our for long, and doubts cast on the backups, I wonder what Walters next move will be. Maybe catching the next train out of dodge? Going to be hard to right this ship wreck with the current coaching group IMHO. First step if I were Walters would be to tell MB - see ya would not want to be ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.O.A.B. Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 With his franchise QB now our for long, and doubts cast on the backups, I wonder what Walters next move will be. Hopefully he doesn't resort to scrap heapin'. I guess we need to sign Sean Whyte. We need 2 kickers for every game to keep each other fresh since we will do a lot of punting and field goal is our only best possible chance to score. rebusrankin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.O.A.B. Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 With his franchise QB now our for long, and doubts cast on the backups, I wonder what Walters next move will be. Maybe catching the next train out of dodge? Going to be hard to right this ship wreck with the current coaching group IMHO. First step if I were Walters would be to tell MB - see ya would not want to be ya! Seriously, that would be O'shea's job not Walters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair GM Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 The other problem I have with this thread is that we're blaming the coaches and the line. "We shouldn't have left Willy in an unwinnable game" (at the expense of proper leadership by the HC), "Bellefeuille's schemes are at fault" (maybe, but the guys actually have to block), and "We spent money and high draft picks to upgrade our OL, and we're getting decimated." How many times to coaches and players say that it takes time for an OL to gel? To learn to play together? To learn each others' tendencies, strengths, and weaknesses? I fully expected the OL to be AT BEST wildly inconsistent for the 1st half of the year. By the time game 10 comes around, that excuse no longer flies; but the hope is that by playing in the trenches together for 10 games, they've at least figured out the major points by then. This reaction is knee-jerk, and SOOOOO Winnipeg. Did you really think spending a bunch of money and winning the offseason would fix our problems immediately? Guys take time together. Khari knew where Milt was on off-days, and could hit him for a TD pass at a Goldeyes game if he wanted to. That's chemistry. That's time playing together. That's something our OL has not had yet. Noeller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebusrankin Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Marcel's scheme have been **** for years. Last year, we gave up too much pressure and too many sacks. Same this year. Same in 2007 when he was the OC in Montreal. Same issue in 2008 in Hamilton. Yeah, you need time to gel but to use this as an excuse is BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Let's look at the teams that have successfully developed backup qbs over the last little while shall we? You got Saskatchewan (Willy) who have a proven starter so that you can bring a backup along slowly. You have Toronto who of course have the ultimate proven guy in Ray again so you can bring guys slowly and have them on your roster for 3 or 4 years before you even need to see them in a game. BC who has gone from Dickenson to Pierce to Lulay which allows players like Reilly to develop. Other than that who's developed anyone? Calgary I guess who went from Burris to Tate/Glenn to Mitchell again providing the young player the shelter needed. Cato is the latest in a long list of quarterbacks in Montreal and many of them have had initial success and been unable to sustain it. We shall see how he fares in the long term. So what have we learned here? It's pretty easy to develop qbs when your situation is stable and you don't throw qbs into the fire before they're ready. Look at what happened to the Riders last year when Durant got hurt. They had inexperienced backups who went from good prospects to scrap heap in no time. If Durant had been healthy last season I bet we'd still be hearing about how Tino Sunshine is an up and comer, and maybe he wouldn't have been such a disaster if he had to go in this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripper Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Let's look at the teams that have successfully developed backup qbs over the last little while shall we? You got Saskatchewan (Willy) who have a proven starter so that you can bring a backup along slowly. You have Toronto who of course have the ultimate proven guy in Ray again so you can bring guys slowly and have them on your roster for 3 or 4 years before you even need to see them in a game. BC who has gone from Dickenson to Pierce to Lulay which allows players like Reilly to develop. Other than that who's developed anyone? Calgary I guess who went from Burris to Tate/Glenn to Mitchell again providing the young player the shelter needed. Cato is the latest in a long list of quarterbacks in Montreal and many of them have had initial success and been unable to sustain it. We shall see how he fares in the long term. So what have we learned here? It's pretty easy to develop qbs when your situation is stable and you don't throw qbs into the fire before they're ready. Look at what happened to the Riders last year when Durant got hurt. They had inexperienced backups who went from good prospects to scrap heap in no time. If Durant had been healthy last season I bet we'd still be hearing about how Tino Sunshine is an up and comer, and maybe he wouldn't have been such a disaster if he had to go in this year. You are bang on. You wreck the kids confidence, you wreck the potential. I honestly think Sunseri got destroyed out there last year, mentally and physically. Then we cut him after the season. Does he ever recover from that, I doubt he does with the riders. A fresh start elsewhere might just be what he needs. The kid can throw the ball with a lot of power, great arm. Its very unfortunate that Brohm and Marve got to go in like this for you guys, hopefully it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Liver Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I hope that Walters is tracking down an "offencive consultant" to help Marcel with his "problem areas" at this very moment. It doesn't have to be a permant addition so an experienced ex-coach like Doug Berry who was an excellent O-Line coach might fit the bill. In the off-season they can deal with Marcel permanently. Mr Dee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Lets look at Marcel's historical schemes and see where they ranked in the years he was an OC. Sacks His first 3 years as an OC in Saskatchewan (2003 - 2005) - His offence was the 2nd, 3rd, and 1st best at giving up the least amount of sacks (27,28,23) 2007 Montreal - Ranked last in the league (8th) with 68 sacks 2008 Hamilton - Ranked last in the league (8th) with 67 sacks 2014 Winnipeg - Ranked last in the league (9th) with 71 sacks Passing His first 3 years as an OC in Saskatchewan (2003 - 2005) - He was consistently in the bottom half of the league in passing (7th, 6th, and 8th with 4054, 4619, and 4229 yards) 2007 Montreal - Even with Calvillo he ranked 4th in the league in passing with 5044 yards 2008 Hamilton - Ranked last in the league (8th) with 4474 yards 2014 Winnipeg - Ranked 5th in the league with 4374 yards Rushing His first 3 years as an OC in Saskatchewan (2003 - 2005) - He was tops in the league in rushing each of those 3 years (2605, 2504, and 2436 yards) 2007 Montreal - Ranked 6th in the league with 1791 yards 2008 Hamilton - Ranked 1st in the league with 2532 yards 2014 Winnipeg - Ranked 8th in the league with 1513 yards Points Scored His first 3 years as an OC in Saskatchewan (2003 - 2005) - He was in the bottom half of the league in points scored all 3 years (4th, 4th, and 8th for 470, 444, and 379 points) 2007 Montreal - Ranked 7th in the league with 362 points 2008 Hamilton - Ranked 6th in the league with 408 points 2014 Winnipeg - Ranked 6th in the league with 397 points Summary Other then his first 3 years in the league 10 - 15 years ago, his offence has consistently given up the most sacks in the league. His passing offence has at best ranked in the middle of the league but that was with Calvillo at the helm, every other year has been pretty much bottom 3rd (or bottom half with Willy). He has ranked 1st in rushing every year except with Montreal and Winnipeg In points scored, his best seasons were 15 years ago when he was ranked about middle of the pack. Every other year has been middle of the pack to bottom half of the league So in conclusion, Marcel is at best an average / middle of the pack OC whose offence seems to have more success with the run (except in Winnipeg). His best passing years passing have been with Calvillo (4th best) and Willy (5th best) Can't wait to see what Willy can do with a new offensive coordinator.... SPuDS, Jesse, Fatty Liver and 10 others 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Thanks Rich that was a great post! Mark F 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripper Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Good post Rich, I was going to mention this at some point. MB almost doesn't have the correct skill set to work with a straight pocket passer like Willy. He may lack some skill regarding pass protection also. The teams he has had that were set up to run the ball for the most part have been successful. You guys have had success running the ball this year when you have tried. I just haven't seen the bombers commit to it, almost like MB feels guilty for not using Willy more. With Willy out IMO I see MB committing to the run now. Older lineman like Picard are still mean and like to go downfield and hammer somebody. You'll see that Picard influenced Oline play once you guys start running the ball more. At this point, where u guys are at, its a plan I think I'd be going with. For example, Picard and Labatte were down right scary out there that year Sheets was running wild, 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbill2004 Posted August 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Who knows, with Marve starting, we may discover that we have the next Collaros/Cato. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Well Cato is very accurate on his throws and his oc calls such a good game. Marve definitely has the mobility to cause fits... I think he is more LeFevour where he has some great games and then some stinkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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