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Hello Went down a rabbit hole one Sunday night and dug up the W/L numbers as starters for Collaros and Flutie (didn't have to go digging for Mitchell's with the milestone he just hit). Was sharing them with Noeller and 17to85 but thought maybe some of you might have interest. These are all current. Win/Loss on a single team (minimum 50 Starts) Flutie (Stamps) - 63 Starts - 50 W - 13 L. .794 winning percentage Mitchell (Stamps) - 117 Starts - 90 W - 25 L - 2 T. .778 winning percentage Collaros (Bombers 2019 - present) - 66 Starts - 51 W - 15 L. .773 winning percentage All time Win/Loss Flutie - 105 Starts - 78 W - 27 L. .743 winning percentage Mitchell - 143 Starts - 100 W - 41 L - 2 T. .706 winning percentage Collaros - 132 Starts - 85 W - 47 L. .644 winning percentage A few observations. I have given Bo 1 win for his 2 ties. Fluties only real losing was to start his career in BC. And even that was only for 1 year. You can see his numbers with the Stamps, and by my count the 2 years he was an Argo, they went 15-3 both years. The only way to spin that Bo wins more than Flutie is to use the "fastest to 100 wins" when we know Flutie didn't play enough to get 100 wins. I was curious when I put this together if Bo's record was actually better than Flutie's. We can see its not, and isn't really that close. I guess when he first left Calgary, it was but he's dropped off since then. And Zack's run in Winnipeg... When he left Hamilton after 2017, he was 24-27 as a starter (even coming here he was only 34-32 as a starter after Sask), and since that time has somehow willed his way into the conversation here. Collaros would have been #1 on the team chart until 2024 happened. Almost half of all his losses as a bomber were in 2024. Mathematically he can't get to 100 wins in less than 143 (absolute best he can do now is 147), but I could see him passing Bo for all time wins or winning percentage all time. Flutie is probably untouchable, and I'm okay with that.

Bradys back, Bighill gonna see ghosts, LETS ******* GO!!!!!!!

What some don't realize is you can have both, i.e., trust, love, admiration, appreciation and loyalty to this 'trinity' but still question some of their decisions. Calling out the good and the bad is okay as long as the pendulum doesn't consistently swing too far at each end.

It’s no different than the other gc loses in the 2000s. Winning the division final is not the goal or some great achievement that wipes out losing 3 gcs in a row. It’s gonna be a thing for a long time. Pissing away gc games isn’t all good. If you are happy with participation ribbons that’s great for you. Most fans especially the type to be forum goers are not that type. We had the ability to be the greatest dynasty in cfl history, and threw it away because our team didn’t want it enough to do what it took to win it.

Yup... Lots. Going to be interesting tonight. Headed in to Calgary in about 15 minutes. Wade and the team are hosting a Manitoba Ex Pats Tailgate party before hand, which should be fun.

Yeah the big thing for me is their mainstays on DL are Willie and Jake at 34 years old and the young gun Vaughters at 32.... that's not sustainable. We desperately need an injection of youth at end to keep the old guys fresh. At this rate we'll burn them out by the end of summer.

That's easy, a linebacker. This group does an awful lot of good things, but the way they've utilized the defensive line the last few years is bad. Full stop. The way they refuse to sit hurt guys in important moments is bad flat out.

I think our scheme will make the bad Vaj appear....and missing the Vet Beggleton aint gonna help their receiving group

Pretty interesting breakdown. I did a breakdown of Zach's playoff and GC stats after the last couple of losses. It'd be interesting to compare the 3s regular season, playoffs, and GC stats per game. I think it is important to note that the era Flutie played in was very different from Zach and BLM. Aside from the steady rise in talent level/athleticism/size of players, the ratio changes and volume of Cahoon esq fake NIs have changed the game a lot. Flutie is the greatest to ever play in the CFL imo. With the biggest gap between him and his competitors. Winning on different teams at the level he did is pretty impressive, too. Part of me thinks that eventually records fall and Goats are replaced. But Idk about Flutie. The nature of the NFL poaching CFL talent now, and the NFL's increased willingness to take all types and sizes of QBs, it is hard to imagine his standard being beaten.

I yearn for the old days when we had a gluttony of guys coming and going on the d-line who could play.

In Calgary, it's going to be a tight game, as it always is on the road against the Stamps.

I can't believe we're still doing this to ourselves... Over and over with the GC losses. Christ. Zach buggers his ankle in the WF in 23. Zach shreds his hand in 24. Both total flukes and changed the situation dramatically. And injuries to Bighill, Schoen and others are absolutely massive to the outcome. But honestly... We need to move on. It's 5 straight Championships of the toughest division in Canadian football. Anything can happen in a one game, winner take all. All good, yo.

So is Cam Allen sending daily emails to @DTonOB eviscerating him for jinxing him by proclaiming him Future ROY?

Well way to jinx it for us. I new the Riders were useless. Love you.

I am going to answer this not to start more of an argument but just to state a fact. MOS is about slanting his roster for special teams,hence so many Lbs...not saying it is right or wrong myself. But it is what MOS believes and for me..that is a good enough reason since he has won more games and more Cups than anyone back to Cal Murphy.

On D, our backups break down like this Don't play Defensive reps: Vaval, Smith, Shay, Gauthier, Novak, Cadwallader, Hallett, and Ayers. Kornelson and Lawson rotate for Adams when Griffin comes in. That's 2 defensive DI's who don't play D, our highest upside young guys (4 of them) don't get reps, and our ends just live on the field. On O, we bring in Eli for a handful of snaps, as well as MCI, Peterson, and Corcoran is a depth/teams guy. Wallace will come in for short-yardage pack at most. Carrying MCI, 2 backup OL, and 2 backup NI DTs when half can sub for the other in short-yardage is crazy. I'd keep MCI, which is growing and big enough to bully small guys and talented enough to back up skill positions. But we could easily go down the big inside Canadians and dress someone who plays and has a chance to make a positive impact. When 90% of your snaps are goal-line plays and fg kicks, you don't have much of a chance to contribute. We need guys to fill those roles, but we don't need a half unit of backups for those roles. We do need guys who can rotate at positions like DE. You can see the sharp decline in WJs production when we stopped rotating ends with Hansen/Kongbo, and when we stopped employing an imp Nose. If younger, healthier WJ couldn't succeed in that situation, how is older WJ, who has been beaten up by every OL in the league, going to? This isn't some controversial, highly theoretical proposition here. We are talking about thinning out the crop of guys who hardly play teams, for guys who are professionals at what we lack. If Bailey and Person don't work out, air lift in more. All they've done, though, is show strong promise when given the chance. So it's pretty reasonable to believe that they would enable us to get more pressure than the virtually none our base fronts have been providing for a long while.

Don't forget the ole goto shoulder shrug to give off the vibe implying 'look everyone I'm a warrior playing through basically a separated shoulder here' that will miraculously heal after the game. 🙂

and comes up with a limp

3 keys for me. Come out ready to play, this is the made-up bowl game for Calgary, but they are really the 2nd-best team in the west right now, and I think they will be in 2nd at the end of the year. Can't sleep on them. Beat FGs with TDs. Our offense leads the league in pts per game, and our D has given up the fewest pts per game. But Calgary has given up the fewest TDs. Calgary is tied for scoring the 2nd most FGs and giving up the 2nd most FGs. But they are dead last in TDs scored. Don't allow their D to hold us to FGs, keep them kicking FGs. Bully ball. Calgary is giving up the highest Yard Per Carry in the league, and the 3rd most rush yards. Calgary also has the 2nd most rushing yards, so we have to be the bully and not get bullied. The Vaj factor. Don't give him easy, quick decisions, change looks, and give him the opportunity to give the ball back to us. Early season Vaj likes to run for yards more than in the 2/3 and final third. We gotta be ready to contain and punish him if he tries to run. Players to watch; Brady is coming back early after his injury. We will see if his reps are split and how ready he is. Vanterpool, drawing back in, should be motivated to try to cement his position as a starter, which should provide a boost to run pro too. Sergio, it's gonna be a big kicking game unless it's a blowout. He's been money on FGs, but shaky on XPTs so far. Vaval, he's bound to break one. Calgary has one of the biggest advantages in the league in net punting, kick-offs, and field goals. Vaval is the X factor in the teams today. Parker, Jones, WJ, and Vaughters. These guys have to contain and be gap sound in the run game. WJ has been beaten up the last couple of years on read options, Vaughters has not shown what we'd hoped when we got him, but is playing for his former team. This should be his best game of the year so far. Devin Adams and Lawson have suffered from the massive amount of reps Thomas and Kornelson have been getting. Adams, in particular, has been quiet after a dominant camp and preseason. He's getting pressure when he's on the field and creating disruption. If he takes the next step, it should help him lock down a larger share of the reps.

Then, hopefully you become the head coach so we can see how good you are.

yup...healthy discussion about pro's and con's is equally warranted...as are differing opinions...hence....discussion board

For clarity, Bighill isn't playing. but newly signed Kyle Wilson is.

I definitely think the Stamps are better than the Riders... For the simple fact that VA is a better QB than Trevor Harris at this point. Now, having said that, Beggleton is a huge loss for them on offense. At any rate, it's the Bombers and then everyone else way down the list.

In the words of Al Davis, "Just Win, Baby!" That's all any of us really care about.

It's not even extra dollars. Could have signed for something like 8 x $7.5m, which is more total $$ and been a Jet for life. Likely looking for a change but the grass isn't always greener.

Had....key word lol

The NFL, NBA, MLB and even the NHL head offices all take an active interest and, where needed, an active role in the mangement of the teams. Owners who do not follow the established protocols for running teams are harassed. The CFL doesn't have that kind of leverage, but it would be nice to see them follow an established, successful model.

yeah he def slants that way...but its not a good slant...yiu can have ST guys tho who can also play....there is that slant.....he also lost more than any too...theres another slant 😁 that rotation has killed us in several cups too....you would think our coach would see that....People like to blame the oline as being inferior or the reason....but they got worn out facing 6..7 guys who could all play all being fresh...and making our line looked ragged and worn out....just like we were doing in 2019 and 2021.....hmmmm....imagine eh?? we rode the good fortune of some really good guys in their prime that over compensated for the back end slanted roster...we dont have that now and by season's end...injuries....gassed guys and no rotational depth...has killed us Teams always have to adapt...and re-invent themselves a bit...purge on the fly (and not due to injury only)...we havn't....

We used to run heavy amounts of DL. 7-8 lbers used to be heavy for us. 9-11 was unthinkable. We've always dressed teams guys as lbers for sure under Mos. And it does make sense to have those guys who kick cover be LBers. Having so much of the roster taken up by guys who can't play O or D with no real back-ups at positions like WR, DE, etc is wild. If we didn't chance into zach, the mafia as we know it doesn't exist here today. We ended up with a massively overpowered squad, and for the most part, we are coasting on that since 19/21.

Go Bombers

unless it's the East semi final in 2019!

OH yeah...forgot bout that incident

Wonder if he's swung a helmet at Biggie again yet.

If you can present some pretty consistent adversity to VAJ where it's not all puppy dogs, lollipops and unicorns for him, it's been my observation that he usually has a difficult time working his way out of it.

yup our roster construct and usage of guys is bad...we getting by in spit of it...like other yrs but when rubber meets road...we get owned when it really counts Ayers is NOT and end and you are correct....the od snap he gets there are just bad...and we are risking WJ/Vaughters getting hurt playing every snap almost, and yeah...they will have to take plays off....and with no real back-up an injury to one....or both..we hooped Vaterpool is a luxury and not a need....and he eats a valuable spot that is sorely needed on defence. We should be using both Shay and Smith for reps at WIL and MLB and gauging what they can do...and get experience....could allow us to dump an import linebacker...and the dressing of 3 Canadian DT's...2 of whom are bottom rung guys in the league...not just our roster is pointless...Use One their spots on Cobb to have receiver and returner depth, add Bailey....Weitz offers nothing but Bailey does....Person can play edge....be a pain inside as well in certain formations and can also drop out into the flats...guy can run and played OLB in school....our front could be so more dynamic and better suited to younger's scheme with a few small tweeks but we refuse to do it....and it's Osh preference over actual talent....and J.Jones not on for one of Wilson...Jones is also just idiotic...the most complete LB we have....isnt on roster The part about all this that reeks of past season's is we will get into injury issues...thats a fact...and no guys will be prepared or have any cohesion with the starters....let alone experience tosee if they can actually be a difference maker and we will trot out wounded and worn out guys yet again

the steps he took on the fly last yr was phenomenal...so another yr...some NFL exposure.....if he is back he hits the ground running....garuanteed And that's the thing here...we don't give up and comers a true shot unless we have nobody because of injury....and when we do have to go that route it generally pans out real well. This holding on to past glory with vets needs to be trimmed down. And when Osh made that comment "when you look at a guys film from yrs ago...you can see what he brings"....was a huge red flag in my opinion....and why he is how he is.....past film from yrs past doesn't equate to continued sucess/dominance moving forward...especially in football...he needs to let that go and get the best guys on the field regardless of who they are...where they from and how long they been here Yeah...agree...I watch all the games....some multiple times for various reasons.....but I not too concerned with the health...always gonna be hot and cold spots but if it survived in some those scary times with way less avaenues of exposure as we have now...and ways to generate rev's....then now will be much the same... The new commish tho needs to have round tables with team presidents/owners to share ideas and have the successful teams show the how's/what's/why's etc of how they go about business....because what we did/do here is easily replicated anywhere....just needs to be laid out I think for some organizations

That's a fair point. If we piss away this season though, I think things will get ugly. The casual fans aren't going to be happy with us not going the extra mile to win the GC in a host year. Instead of a few of us being upset with roster management, it'll get much bigger. I've got love for all the mafia guys, past and current. They've got to do more than maintain, though.

Pokey was showing signs of that....slippery and got yards at times outta nowhere...and had some sick moves in open field....hopefully if he gets back and some time in an NF environment he will come back even better

Probably mostly learned how to hit people in the mouth.

I'd rather compliment the Argo's than the Riders hahaha....tho they rarely do anything compliment worthy so I think we safe hahaha

I see Blue....it looks glorious!! 😁

Don't ever question The Trinity. They walk on water. They are beyond reproach. I see no difference between losing three straight Grey Cups as compared to 3 straight Western Finals. Losing is still losing.

so you can use an if when it suits your opinion?... Winning the east apparently is a joke...guess we a bigger joke then as those jokesters best us 3 yrs straight...and "technically" if not for a stupid single point given up....the Cats bet us in the second cup with a field goal as they drove the field on our gassed defense that game ....or "if" Nichols doesn't make that out of this world tip in the end zone, to force the tieing field goal....if's go both ways and ther's 2 ifs that almost had us losing 4 straight If's go both ways whereas the Argo's had the onions to put in a nobody unproven guy at QB to beat us...a big/smart coaching decision that worked in the big game...we decide to put out a QB who wasnt getting it done.....then almost rips his fore finger off...the most important for a throwing QB btw...we numbed it...slapped on a glove...which he never threw with before...ever....and he admittedly said could not throw effectively when we had Dolegala who HAS played in the league and won games....or Wilson who could have pulled a Chad Kelly....so a big/stupid coaching decision that cost us....again..... you could go back to the other Cup too where ZC had a bum ankle and couldnt run...let alone plant properly to throw...and it was very obvious....yet we kept him in all game while we had a QB we developed...who everyone on this sit pretty much lamented us letting go...a guy who had playtime and again could have had that Arbuckle/Kelly moment...yet we made the dumb decision not to...and it cost us...and that wasnt the only dumb decision in that one either.... so for some posters with a lil bit of knowledge wanting to question and criticize the Dear Leader Osh for the same dumb things over and over....is totally warranted....especially when we already this yr are seeing more of the same ol same ol....yeah but...some will cry out...we 3-0....shutup already about the yeah but's as yeah buts dont win cups may be true, but is coach had the balls to make a move when he saw his team needed a spark....or something wasnt working, and they were sipping out of the Cup shortly after....there's the difference...the Argo HC had the faith and trust in his players to play...unlike "everyone is a starter thats why they here" HC guy....so other he is feeding us a nice load of B.S....Or he doesnt believe what he says himself we avg 127 yards on ground per game...and 253 thru air....hardly 1 dimensional Take out the best passing performance and rushing game we average 90 on ground and 212.5 thru air...again....not 1 dimensional by any stretch trust me guys could care less about the division...its a nice lil bonus but means nothing if you cant finish....we in all honesty if didnt have such a stubborn I am smarter than everyone HC should be gunning for 6th straight win and be considered one of the best teams...with 80 percent same roster...ever....unheard of in this day and age....but thats not how we looked at

Mean **** tho...ask any player

He just pulled off arguably the best play of his CFL career with a huge run. He didnt really do all that much after or before that.

Why would Osh put Zach back in with a nearly severed finger tip sewed up & most of his throwing hand frozen in last year's Grey Cup? The decision was a disaster. Why would he play four players who were too injured to play in 2023 & had no business being on the field in the Grey Cup? Because Osh coaches with some kind of warped coaching code that he uses. Instead of playing Wilson or Dolegala, he throws Zach back in who tells the team in the huddle he's in trouble as he can't throw the ball. Then a year earlier, he plays injured guys like Bighill, Alexander, Schoen & Demski in the GC instead of his backupsd at least compete. We lose.... And Noeller wonders why poster here ask questions??? I don't blindly go this is The Trinity therefore they can't be questioned.

Technically, the Bombers are West division champions 5 straight years.

23 and 24 I’m a little more ok with. 22 will always be the one that pisses me off. There was no excuse for losing that game and it all turned after that stupid, stupid call to have Prukop chuck it down the field. Buck has any sense in his head at that point and we would have a 3peat, won in Regina of all places. I’ll never get over that one.

But when the signs are there of continued stupidity of doing exact same things...why would you move on tho? If we fail.again it will be basically from the same issues and it's stems from the HC 5 straight trips...not 5 straight championships Anything can happen in one game.. And the same combination of things have literally happened in 3 straight avoidable defeats Guys say this player...or that player sucked...was a big reason...yet fail to put together the fact that they were not properly prepared to succeed...and hence looked bad...aka...coached/schemed When they perform well they likely were...you have some outlier incidents where a supreme talent and.effort will supersede anything...much like a inferior and declining player can have the best coaching and prep and just still suck...we have been a victim of both in all 3 losses...be it bad gMeplan and no adjustments...poor rostering...bad in game decisions and lack of trusted depth...which circles back to rostering all yr and.riding guys into the dirt all yr with no experienced viable depth behind them...but a buttload of st guys We been easily out coached in last 3...badly...will it be 4?? TBD

The main reason we’ve lost 3 Grey Cups in a row in my opinion has been the offensive line struggling to protect Zach combined with Zach not being as athletic as he once was. If Vanderpool provides a significant upgrade to the offensive line then I think it’s worth shaping the rest of the lineup around that.