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Yup. Would have liked to see what Bailey can do instead of Weitz

So I think with guys like our rookie lb draftees... is that we are also using a bunch of American linebackers as special teams depth and the first in line backups. It's just too many linebackers and if we drafted these guys with a mind to having them become starters then what purpose does blocking them with Americans do? They should be the primary backups.

What if he whiffs on blocks! What if the pocket collapses with him in there, what if the back gets stuffed! Of course how would we tell the difference because that **** is already happening. Guaranteed though that if Eli was in at centre he would be able to now and then move a ***** out of the way and help a play happen. Best we hope for with kolankowski is that he doesn't get flat out embarrassed. And if it is worse then we stop wasting time on 2 players who shouldn't be there. What I actually think it is, because they so regularly use 6 OL Eli isn't seen as a real option at centee because he's good as the extra OL whereas Kolankowski is useless at everything except snapping the ball.

That's fair... I think rushing them to start and play full reps is unnecessary right now, but giving them SOME reps could definitely be helpful in Year 1.

You keep saying this but it's not really true. I went back and looked at the draft history since 2015 and we are above the league average when it comes to retaining our OL draft picks beyond their rookie deals. I only looked at the first 2 rounds so the numbers could be better or worse overall but I was looking at the top rated OL (excluding guys who fell due to NFL interest). It was surprising how few actually last past 3 years with their original team. BC - 6 OL drafted, only one stayed past their rookie deal (Godber). EDM - 5 OL drafted, only one stayed past their rookie deal (Beard). CAL - 3 OL drafted and 2 have stayed past their rookie deal (Sceviour & Bell). I was a bit surprised at how few high draft picks the Stamps have used on OL. SSK - 5 OL drafted, only one stayed past their rookie deal (Fry). WPG - 6 OL drafted, 3 stayed past their rookie deals (Chungh, Couture, Gray). Dobson, Desjarlais & Spooner are the ones who didn't play at least 4 seasons with us. HAM - 5 OL drafted & 2 have stayed beyond rookie deal (Revenberg & Woodmansey). TOR - 9 OL drafter with 5 staying past their rookie deal (McEwen, Sackey, Hunter, Richards, Nicastro). They also still have Doxtater that they drafted in 2021 but he bounced around down south so he's only in year 2 with them. OTT - 7 OL drafted with 3 staying past their rookie deal (Mateas, Lauzon-Seguin, Pelehos). MTL - 6 drafted, only 1 has stayed past their rookie deal (Lestage).

Or you could say he was evaluated thoroughly and promptly released.

You're creating a false argument. Many of us, myself for example are calling for Smith and Shay to rotated in on D, not to start. Shay getting no reps at all on D through 9 games is baffling when he was touted as ready to start right away. As for developing picks slowly, you're argument really does not hold. Alford, White, Fortin, Veresuk, Shanks have all started games this season. Labrosse, Mardner, Cantin-Arku, Mital all contributed as rookies last season.

Easily most balanced roster we've put on the field. Arguably best, but without Schoen. See if Logan gets offensive reps. Don't really care about dropping Jones. They don't use him on D. They don't use Ayers or Wilson on D a ton either. Between those 3 spots you're looking at most 40 snaps a game. And that's on the high end (last week) so far. They've needed to flip that DI to O for 9 games (aside from the Cooley experiments). Finally did.

you dont develop in practice...you need real reps...In games where the outcome was basically a non issue...and there been many....they should have got a lot of reps....but we risked our starters if for anything getting hurt in a lost cause....and we all know we can ill afford any injury Also it would make practical sense to allow then rotational reps here and there as well un a game ...we trot out other guys who in all reality do nothing for us and at times are a detriment...so really not trying your rookies...especially one whom was touted by many experts the most po ready guy in the draft

Yup....3 Canadian DT's...pointless when one is useless really ....Weitz as well...totally redundant and will never see field other than teams...we have enough of those guys...we could have added Bailey for Thomas and had the same amount of dline guys...Ayers is not an effective dline guy and why they keep trying to make that happen is ridiculous...and kept on Peterson in liei of Weitz....rostered Cobb....gave Vibert some reps....and if game got oit of hand for the good...or bad tried him at center.....but Osh does the expected Curious to see tho if OC guy knows how to utilize Logan and have some packages with both him and BO.....Doubt ot tho... well we have 2 stud Canadian LB who deserve a shot to get some reps as a backup...So Ayers as we have this brain numbing idea to have him as a Dlineman...theres a way

I understand the "math" behind it .. I just look at the defensive side of the ball and see a giant hole right in the middle of the defensive line.

Good to see Logan draw in but all of Schmekel, Lawson and Thomas on the game day roster? I also don't get dropping Jones in favour of Weitz.

https://static.cfl.ca/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/WINNIPEG-at-MONTREAL_AUGUST-21-1.pdf Depth Chart

“lmao I contradict myself daily and take pot shots at anyone that I don’t feel like agreeing with on any given day and I have been doing this for literally years but everyone else is 10 and the problem” hehe

I’d go Bailey on for Hallett (see what he can do on teams at least, maybe some reps at end) Lawson on for Thomas Woods on for either Ayers or J. Jones (Ideally Wilson out for a game and give Jones that spot but I know they won’t take Wilson out for anything other than injury)

Our Canadian LB's...Save for the holdovers Gautier and Cadwallader have all the metrics you want, and should be getting reps to slowly season them into the defence..Like other's said they don't need to be starting, but situational reps, rotation, games where outcome is pretty much a forgone conclusion is a definite must have, thats how you get guys either accustomed and ready...or determine that they not good enough. Nothing can replicate game reps on a multitude of levels, and you can only develop so much in practice, and there a limit to what you absorb from watching...you need to start to apply it, be it baby steps, or thrown right in...we fail to do that, and then when we do run into injury issues, we basically are forced to play injured people cause we have zero faith in the backup....they have zero experience (cause they never took any reps) We have seen this play out here every yr since 2021 Osh has his favorites, and his own personal reason's for it and just cause he is a HC doesn't mean it's the best, or right option. This is also how good teams over a real long time turn over their roster and keep things fluid and with potential...they don't wait yrs with zero evidence of a guy on the field to only then realize they just don't have it....and we start all over agian...or we stockpile a roster of coach's fav's and ST only guys and then all of a sudden in the spot we are now we do this already with long in tooth guys...and guys who been here a bit but never good enough to make the starting 12...and a lot of the times it actually weakens us....so you are right...it's gonna aid their development and maybe open eyes and realize wow this dude can ball...or if you were smart about it you would get rid of these guys...bring in new bodies and strengthen yourself...There is no law that says whomever you break camp with is the team...cut and dried...but seems with this group thats how they roll unless an injury forces the hand Collin Kornelson is a good case...showed zero last yr....went back for a 6th yr of University came back again...still showed nothing really...bumped a guy off roster who had played last yr....showed nothing in 6 games...and was knocked of by guy he bumped off...then weeks later cut....that shouldn't have been a 2 yr odyssey Thomas in TC this yr...who he outplay?...did he even participate?....there were multiple guys who showed more than he had in yrs....yet game 1...there he was...sucking wind...and sucking ass....this been a 12 yr odysee....that should have been put out to pasture 4 yrs ago really....In 4 yrs we could have developed a new pillar....but nope practices are a joke....if you dont earn/show it in TC and in pre-season...and have a coach whop favors and plays fav's and old vets that had success yrs ago....good luck getting on the roster Osh basically showed his mentality early in yr..I think late in camp...something to the affect "you look at a guys film from yrs ago...and see what he can do, and the success they had..., and thats why you have them here' ....or something like that....thats just a poor assed way to justify your decisions....yrs ago...in football a yr ago can be night and day...let alone yrs ago....plain stupid

I think the bigger question I have is what needs to happen (other than injury, rest, game already decided) for MOS and his coaching staff to substitute a starter for a dressed depth player? I'd enjoy hearing the real answers because it will vary per position, per player, per junction in the game/season. I'm assuming head coaches and their coordinators will have similarities in their approaches but also have their own unique and different nuances and philosophies.

There's roughly 60 reps a game on D. If Shay and Smith were playing say 12 reps a game that's only 20%. I can't see how them playing would hurt the club but I can see how it would help aid their development and help the team. If I am wrong, explain why.

Dru Brown is out this week. said it before, say it again, I hate seeing young gun QBs get hurt. League needs those guys on the field so bad, I don't care who they play for. (no disrespect on the Bomber who hurt him -- was it Vaughters? It was a clean football play. Just stupid bad luck.)

I offer you as an example out new starting safety, Cam Allen. He shone in training camp, had great credentials, and yet it took a half-season for him to be given a chance. And then he showed he belonged. (shakes head).

I hear we plan to trade down, our 1st for 8 8th rounders which we will spend assembling the greatest team of ST aces to ever grace a CFL roster.

Sadly, I think we might be in the running for a high draft pick.

3 years can go pretty fast without really seeing anything a ton from them if we go that route. Personally I'd like to get more than a season & a half from a top draft pick. Year 1 - ST only Year 2 - some rotation on D Year 3 - maybe starting? Year 4 - potentially gone. Not quite the same situation as Judge & Singleton. Judge only played 3 games (didn't record anything but ST tackles) in year 1 before getting hurt and missing the rest of the year. He rotated in quite a bit in year 2 before becoming a starter in year 3. Maybe it would have been sooner had he not been hurt but we'll never know. The 3 year scenario I mentioned above is exactly how it played out for Sask with Judge - 1 year as a starter and then he bolted as soon as he could. I hope that's not the case with our guys. Singleton did get real playing time in year one with Calgary but that was after spending 2015 on NFL PR's so it wasn't a straight transition from college to seeing the field as a pro.

And hardly anything to worry about when you're getting nothing from too many American spots, particularly at receiver.

Those draft prospects are tough to get excited about when you immediately have to ask, how many of these guys are getting NFL shots?

what's the ST only prospects looking like?...lol...

The first rankings for next year's draft is out: Mesidor takes hold of top spot in fall edition of CFL Scouting Bureau - CFL.ca

Look, I'm all in favor of a few reps here and there. However, not until the coaches feel comfortable with it. We have 3 years of these players being locked in, there is absolutely no reason to rush things. NAT draft picks are the one type of player that we can ripen on the vine. Yea...we could insert them into blow outs, but honestly those are practice reps as well.

Noticed ayers in last game taking more reps, but agree OShea /Younger need to start putting more faith in younger guys like Smith and Shay that they raved about at the draft This would benefit our ratio mgmt greatly

That makes sense. Forgot Logan was a RB by trade. Right. The dline the last 2 weeks have been much improved tho. Thomas starting is mind boggling stuff when he doesn’t need to but at this point there’s no use complaining cuz Jake gonna go out on his terms. I’d like to see Thomas off and woods on but woods I guess isn’t ready and isn’t Canadian. If someone could ask O’Shea straight up why Thomas starts and gets all these reps and actually not accept the answer and question him if he watches tape that would be great but our media lacks balls.

haha....yeah I didnt even wanna bring up the offence side of things.....Cobb being on as opposed to Weitz or Thomas tho almost makes sense eh? But it's a really sad state of affairs that you depth receivers are those 2 guys, and that for the yr we have only had 1 guy on as depth...a rookie at that ....have sure dodged a bullet with not having 2 injuries on offence tho.....especiaLLY when we set out with a not ready Schoen and a guy in Demski who has been knicked up a lot the last few seasons...and as the only real threat now is gonna get beat to a pulp we just cahneg positions for them to make it seem like we have depth and coverage hahaha...Like Ayers as a dlineguy so people cant say we dress too few

We have 17 lb's/Db's on roster....38% of our roster....yet only 8 see actual "regular" reps....and another gets on in a lot of packages...A Canadian and gets abused relentlessly...was Hallet...Lately been Kelly....and if we get an injury, the bulk of those remaining 9 guys should never see the field...and the ones who should to see if they can contribute and grow...(Shay/Smith/Ayers and Jones when in) don't get any meaningful reps....someone explain that to me And then we also roll with our worst dline guy likely on the roster getting the most reps not counting WJ and Vaughters...another head scratcher....and we wonder why we have issues at times, and any injury issues and we hooped with nobody with any experience...let alone trust

This need to roster a team of STers to go with the Offensive team and Defensive Team needs to stop. And before anybody says it, STs is not 1/3 of the game if you count the reps. Offense and Defense will have somewhere between 50-60 reps each per game and STs is usually about 20.

I guess because Logan is now the backup RB they must feel like Weitz helps more on ST than Peterson

I think it’s probably true that they really like Eli as our 6th ol. If they don’t see him as a significant upgrade at C, which appears to be the case, it wouldn't make sense to make that change. To 17to85’s comment, we don’t have to cut him if he can’t take the starting C spot. A good 6th ol is still important. I’ve been an offensive coach at the high school level, and in my experience I’d rather play a centre I trust to make every snap rather than a guy who might be better physically but whose snaps can be an adventure. I don’t know for sure that’s the case here (trust), just a possibility.

He would have to try very hard for that to happen. Kolankowski's blocking technique consists of trying to get in the way of someone other than one of his guards.

Give him a try... He can't be worse? Of course, he can.

lol at thinking a guy who has been here since 2019 is any sort of solution. I mean the hills some of you chose to die on are pretty insane. It’s always something tho. lol at also pretending anyone actually watches the OL play. Some of you I think need to accept that you might not know as much as you think you do.

Mostly through injury or departure though... kolankowski was purely an injury fill in and he had never once been in danger of being pulled out. Neufeld can be injured all training camp and never feel pressure to lose his spot...

As opposed to his play calling? Just kidding 😁

I appreciated Younger's answer when he was asked why they let both Bighill and Alexander go at the same time, given how important leadership and communication are. "The other side of that is the physical toll that the game takes. Either way, you have a challenge. Whether the challenge is communication or physical limitations - you choose your challenge."

Right which emphasizes the need for some game reps obviously with some thought before doling them out. There is a risk of course, i.e., player crapping the bed when their number is called ergo confidence hit but that's what it's all about, that's how one grows, develops not just in sport but in life generally.

Honestly we spend so much time dissecting whether our 3rd stringers should be on the roster and how much of an impact they would create. For the most part almost none. Here we are with big time holes at 1st string at many positions and we aren't talking about it but Cobb over Ball....that's the winning formula? All so that coaching can be blamed for our weak season thus far....smh. Where are our quality IMP receivers, DL, and LBers. Right now we are probably the weakest in the league for starters at 2 out of 3 of those groups and at best maybe 6th or 7th in starting LBer strength but that gives MOS too much of an out for most here. Instead of it being partly coaching and mostly talent, the narrative around here is that it's all on coaching and development failure and that is simply not true.

It isn't all about physicality or speed as to how a team develops a player. The mental aspect of the game is big. The comfort level, the confidence level. Like I said I am not against anyone getting reps in garbage time but to throw a guy into the fire as a first year pro is not a great idea unless they have demonstrated they are someone you just can't keep out of the lineup. We don't even do that, nor does any CFL team, for the vast majority of IMP guys who are far more polished and game ready. Are their rookies who break through, of course, but the number league wide is small compared to how many end up tossed away.

Practice speed to game speed not even close.

Do we want to win, or rush our draft picks into duty they may not be ready for? I have no issue letting first year draft picks develop slowly, it is usually of great benefit to both the team and the player. I am not understanding what short coming people are seeing that would require us to play Shay/Smith right now? If the argument is for a ratio shift along the DL, then are we willing to downgrade LBer play to get this done? Look I want every draft pick to be a starter sooner rather than later as well, but I see no benefit in forcing the situation when we are not necessitated to do so. More players are ruined than actually excel when put in that situation. There is a lot to dislike about our current roster but tossing players in just to see what happens is incredibly short sighted and probably leads to losses if we do it on any kind of scale. What's the concensus around here? That we should give up on this season and start going towards next year?

Yeah I’m not sure why they don’t use Jonathan Jones more, he can play wil or MLB as well as either of the guys currently taking the most reps there. Most likely the seniority/loyalty thing which we’ve all discussed. If he’s only on a 1-year deal I don’t see how he stays here in 26, for the good of his own career. I also would like to see what Connor Shay could do with a few reps a game at least. For a guy that highly touted to go half the year with zero defensive snaps is so strange.

Considering Eli has been here since 2019 and kolo 2021, I somehow doubt it. I mean why? Cuz booch says so? I mean seriously. Why should Eli be better when every chance he was given he’s looked worse. College for Eli was a long time ago now. He’s not this prospect ppl like to pretend he is. He is what he is and what he is is a 6th lineman. Kolo ain’t it but Eli certainly isn’t either. Vibert is a center. Give him a shot. Or bring in an American one if you must cuz reality is if Vibert ain’t it then we currently don’t have anyone on the roster who is a good center.

Eli's been around since 2019 and hasn't been promoted to starter yet. If you're basing your opinion on how he played way back in 2017 against college opposition, then you're out to lunch on your assessment of his current value.

Yes, because we have never let young OL get into our starting lineup. I mean c'mon...you guys are laying it on a bit thick. We have swapped out a ton of guys on our OL over the years.