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In ZC8's entire Bombers tenure, I have never seen him under duress like he has been this year. I don't know enough to know if it's on the OL or something else, but it is a MAJOR problem. The first half of that LOLK's game was infuriating and so obvious that even Suitor picked up on it.... so there is definitely a problem.

Lol. Kolankowski being caved in repeatedly while taking 2 holding calls is rated as the 2nd best o-lineman of the week?? Was he not also replaced by Eli at times in the 2nd half? CFL.CA's "rankings" are toilet paper.

Our o-line has been worse this season, in both pass protection and run blocking. No one with a set of eyes can deny it.

Collaros has admitted that he has been holding the ball too long and not all the blame should be put on the Oline, I know you are all going to say he is just sticking up for his guys but I do think there is some truth to the statement.

Again, a lot of these issues are far overblown. We don't have a nose... is that a coach issue or a gm issue? Collaros is getting hit and the OL are struggling... well we got pieces on the roster to try and change that up, coaching to not make the switch, but also patience is part of what makes the coaches here good so, as fans we should have some patience. We lost some depth to the NFL, to other teams and to the salary cap, that hurts, so we can't blame the coaches entirely on that. As I said, it's not as bad as some of you guys want to make it seem. A lot of it simply boils down to oshea has more patience.

Yet your proposed offer cantered around Prukop and Kola? 30+ year old marginal players for the Elks best player and a young talent in Ford? Your trade makes them older and worse, lol. It’s laughable.

I would love to see QB pressure stats because Collaros is having much less time in the pocket as years past, as per the eye test, which is leading him to throw early/force throws at times(hello Ottawa 4th quarter pick-6). Also, if runs for no gain/negative yards could be found i would wager Oliveira is likely nearing his last seasons totals already. If you take out the 4th quarter last game he probably had like 20 yards on the ground. We gouged them in the 4th because they were gassed. The majority of Oliveira's yardage has been from late in games this season. I'd rather not wait until the 4th for our running game to get going, thats the type of thing that will make you one-dimensional. The run game push from the o-line has been largely non-existent this season for large chunks of games. You can argue the stats seem the same, but the eye test is very much different from previous seasons. The o-line needs to sack-up. If they dont it could be just a matter of time until something happens to Zach and/or teams make Oliveira a non-factor.

I’d like to see about 20 designed run plays a game, Oliviera about 12-14 times, McCrae/Demski/Bailey about 6-8 times. Oliviera is a great player but you need to work in the other guys both out of backfield and with Jet/Orbit motions other misdirection to widen out the D. Olivieira can’t effectively run the stretch plays, you need him going straight north-south you don’t want him going wide and then trying to hit vertical. The problem with moving the pocket is to you can’t let the D set the edge, you need your tackles to win. That’s been rare this year. You see against a team like Edmonton more of an interior rush issue that they moved Collaros around a lot. BC, Calgary, Ottawa just killed our tackles and ability to get Collaros out by design and his ability to scramble. Calgary and Ottawa had guys our interior couldn’t handle too…Rose and Wakefield.

I honestly don't see Zach taking many more hits than he ever has. I'd like to see the numbers on how many hits per game he is taking this year vs last year. There will ALWAYS be bitching on fan forums. That is a given. I like to measure performance by results. Does MOS have flaws, show me a person in the world who doesn't, is he by far and away the best HC in this loop. Hands down...no one even close really. Problem with fans is we like to take a small problem, isolate it, and therefore it becomes overblown and out of context to the over all.

No sir. There was plenty of bitching about the 2019 roster & how it was managed That was a third place team who won many games off the foot of Medlock. They acquired a legit QB and came together at the right time.

Walker had a pretty good pre-season...and I actually commented that he had a bit more explosion/pop to his game and looked like transformed his body a bit...had a slow start but last 3 games has been good...Thomas and Bennett did jack **** in TC...and have done similar in the games so far, tho I will say last game was probably Bennett's best to date....but a 27 yr old rookie is always a dumb pick if its your first....man playing against boys...and wasting a DA spot on a fullback...when u had zero depth on defense, right after a game where that lack of depth had a major cause in the loss is not acceptable....and its not about patience....it was just plain dumb...If anyone can give an even remotely intelligent reason as to why he would do that...I'm all ears but that was a coaching gaff we were lucky to not suffer from 2 weeks in a row Its not sky is falling bad, and end of the road/world.....but needs some serious looking at...Osh has his whole career as the HC made a lot of questionable roster moves and game day depth charts....yeah we won more than we lost....I'd call that lucky a fair bit, and a direct result of Walters giving the team some quality guys, at right time, in prime of their careers that made that happen....and yes...in spite of some questionable moves....no coach is perfect, and many have flaws they have always fell back on...Osh is no different, but he also has to step away from the coach Ritchie syndrome of clinging to vets he loved too long, or not letting emerging guys get a chance to shine...even in bit roles while the vets are still here

So the staff does some odd things like dress people to stand on the sidelines all game... but other things are massively overblown. For example most people would have just dropped Richie walker in preseason yet here we are seeing him play pretty well... so the coaches do have some kind of clue we as fans don't. Again there's some flaws but not nearly as significant as fans make it out to be after a couple losses early in the year.

Dom Davis i gotta give this guy credit,has to rank up there as the worst QB that that keeps on finding a way to play.😄

oshea is a bad, lucky coach? This discussion is going into the twilight zone.

We were a mid tier team up to this: Then we became dominant.

We might not have got passed the stamps in the semi final if streveler hadn't decided to run all over the calgary defence in the 2nd half. So i reject your premise that collaros was the difference. Here are some other extremely key things that improved the 2019 team for the playoffs: Mason at SAM, Alexander at safety, Taylor at halfback. Jones at db as well. And yes collaros in for injured Nichols was part but they mare a lot of changes to the D leading into the playoffs that set the tone for what was to come, and make no mistake the 2019 playoffs the defense was lights out and a way bigger factor than the offense.

I don’t know if I’ll make it to know what we’ll look like in 2109.

Yes, that's actually quite noticeable, ZC rolls out, but the DE is already there.

Zach will eat the hit to get the completion. Always has, always will. Our team will live and die by his ability to do that and keep getting up. We knew that when we got him. The RIders tried to get him to play safer, and he sucked. No..it was not.

Yep, Zach leans towards gunslinger so he gets hit more often than Nichols, who was content to pick up first downs until they reached the 45. Even before 2019 Nichols was boasting of "not touched" games and they had a number of them.

We most certainly did not get lucky in 2019. We gave a master class in playoff football that year. As for winning with some flawed things....EVERY Grey Cup champ EVER. Hey I don't mind the discussion of our weaknesses, but saying our three year run is flawed and lucky is over the top.

I have no stats/numbers, but I don't think pass pro is as good as it was - when they had Andrew Harris still at his peak performance He was a master in pass pro, and as a safety valve

Yep & that's what ate at me all game yesterday watching Pigrome play for Ottawa. We gave up a promising prospect for a has been journeyman.

run first QB's need to prove they can pass....but he telegraphed many...locked in way too early on most, and not sure if he even had read progressions....be interesting to see how he looks moving forward.....but from that game there he is the best looking qb they have fielded in a while and showed some good promise....but we have all seen this song and dance before too, and it fizzled and dried up

the interesting thing was that Judge erased Crum from the run game from the second quarter on. But then the redblacks adjusted and Crum started delivering passes from the pocket... I don't know if the guy is going to have a long CFL career or if he'll be solved at some point like so many other promising CFL qbs have been ... but the bottom line yesterday was that the Stamps schemed very well to take away his best weapon, his legs ... so he beat them with his arm, and he made some real nice precise throws into traffic too. Seems like a pretty promising sign. (note: I know nothing about coaching football or QBs) edit: another promising sign: Crum beat Maier by playing clean. Unlike Maier, he had no picks and no fumbles. Rookie run-first qbs forced to operate from the pocket tend to be turnover machines, but Crum has been pretty clean so far, tossing just one pick in his very first game against us.

So MOS could roster another LB or FB that doesn't play anyway? No thanks. Rather have Castillo.

Never under estimate a navy seal!

Lapo problems

Agreed on all points. We dominated on defence. Absolutely dominated. It was a sight to behold. Offensively we were average but very opportunistic. We were a good team with or without Zac. Did Zac put us over the top....yea he did because Streveler is more of a gimmick QB and was playing on a broken foot. All we needed out of Zac that playoff run was competent and our defence was just that damn good. Wasn't until 2021 that Zac really broke out with us imo. In 2019 he was game managing us through the playoffs.

None of the o-lineman have draped themselves in glory this year. The reason he sticks out to most is his penchant for taking holding penalties and getting put on rollerskates, which weve witnessed numerous times this season.

there was a play where Dobson was SO LOST that Stan was handling his man with his left hand, and with his right hand, grabbed Dobson and shoved him in the right direction because he was so completely lost and going the wrong way. Rookie errors, big time. And as mentioned, Koala was getting blown up often, and twice got nailed for holding because he was turnstiled and needed to grab just so Zach wouldn't get destroyed. In short, I do not understand these stats/grades.

https://www.cfl.ca/2023/07/25/cfl-honour-roll-week-7-collaros-leonard-bombers-o-line-make-the-grade/ Zach Collaros ... and the Winnipeg Blue Bombers’ offensive line have made the grade for Week 7 in the Canadian Football League (CFL) Honour Roll powered by Pro Football Focus (PFF). CFL HONOUR ROLL – WEEK 7: OFFENCE QB | Zach Collaros | Winnipeg Blue Bombers | WPG 28 – EDM 14 PFF Player Grade: 84.6 20-of-24 passing (season-high 83.3 per cent) for 308 yards and two touchdowns Two passes for 30+ yards, including a personal season’s best 70-yard effort to Nic Demski for a touchdown in the third quarter 129.2 efficiency rating CFL HONOUR ROLL – WEEK 7: OFFENSIVE LINE Winnipeg Blue Bombers | WPG 28 – EDM 14 PFF unit grade: 79.8 Top-3 performers: Patrick Neufeld | 72.2 Chris Kolankowski | 70.8 Liam Dobson | 68.9 CFL HONOUR ROLL: ALL-WEEK 7 QB | Zach Collaros | Winnipeg Blue Bombers | 84.6 RB | Brady Oliveira | Winnipeg Blue Bombers | 72.9 REC | Nate Behar | Ottawa REDBLACKS | 79.4 OL | Colin Kelly | Saskatchewan Roughriders | 75.0 DL | Mike Rose | Calgary Stampeders | 79.3 LB | Ben Hladik | BC Lions | 80.6 DB | Richard Leonard | Hamilton Tiger-Cats | 86.1 K/P | Bailey Flint | Hamilton Tiger-Cats | 79.0 ST | Jayden Dalke | Saskatchewan Roughriders | 91.8 Granted it was against the hands-down worst team in the league, but it's nice to see Zach, Brady, and the OL grading out well compared to other teams.

Oliveira is a guy built to wear down a defense. Yeah it will be less effective early on, but keep at it and will pay off late. Just need to string together a few more first downs than they have been.

They used a lot of Eli in the 4th quarter when the run game took over. I believe they had extra OL in but perhaps if the guy is good enough to make that much difference he should get more reps.

Theres other ways to move the pocket and not depend soley on the tackle...everything for most part seem just a bit out of sync for good parts of the game....will that go away now with everyone on offence back....guess we will see I think a lot of the oline issues tho are way overblown....I truly believe the switch at center will go a long way in making a difference...Commend Kolo for filling in and being adequate and holding down the fort...but he is not a topline center, never was...and never was gonna be.....Time to get the future in there...and grow into the role....

Our playoff defense in 2019 was generational, as was our regular season defense in 2021. That was no fluke.

I'm pretty sure if Booch had the chance he would rephrase that. It wasn't luck. our defence was absolutely lights out, and our offence firing on all cylinders all 3 games. We won every one in very convincing fashion. Definitely not one game where we didn't completely overwhelm the opposition in those playoffs. It was one of the most dominant playoff runs I have ever seen in the CFL.

I curios as to what and who we line up as first teamers on both sides of the ball the first practice after the bye.....and if we make any transactions of any kind over the bye

I agree. I think we went into the playoffs last year a little fat and sassy. A little adversity will rebuild that aspect of our players characters that may have been on the shelf. I understand our team wanting to run things back with this group, and so far it looks good, but KW needs to get to work now for next year. In fairness to you first statement....yea....I think a lot of our team needs to evolve this year. I think last year we just kinda rode out the string at the end and weren't hungry.

Luck is preparation plus opportunity, no mystical energies won us a cup/cups, it was a coach and his team that won it. Leave the superstition to medieval peasants

Maybe they got lucky, but 2019 was a physically dominant team with a running attack that no one could stop They hit people in the mouth, early and often, and that was usually why they won That team was not afraid to put their noses to the grindstone, and their HC had more to do with that than anyone else

Yea...last year ZC took a lot of hits and pressures as well. I think that is due to some roster turnover on the OL and Harris being gone. I am not seeing it as a big problem though. He is still probably the cleanest or one of the cleanest QBs in the league when it comes to contact. Do we have the 2019/21 OL anymore? No we don't. Is our OL a problem...that is fantasy.

But we have seen two solid examples...of teams not being able to stop our running attack...in the 4th quarter This team is a real head scratcher.

I mentioned this in the other thread; but this, combined with the amount of hits Zach is taking, says more than teams aren’t over looking Brady.

I think the Grey Cups were helped a lot by arrival of Ringmaiden, now , player wise, we are seeing the effect of him going to B.C. we are losing ground, and B.C. is on the upswing. losing him was unfortunate. I also think willie J. is in on too many plays. wont be able to sustain the effort.

Not surprising, a lot of his success has come with a super heavy set late in games. Out side of that he’s been getting creamed in the back field with regularity.

Not when other teams scout our cuts and do extremely well. Also, cfl teams don’t have extensive practice film. 90% of all film teams have is from tsn cameras. They get un cut and wide angles etc we don’t get. But teams are lucky to have one guy with a cam out side of that teams that don’t develop the next QBs quickly sink back to the bottom of the standings. Dynasties ALL develop their next qb. The guy who replaced Peyton was pretty good too it’s pretty easy really. We had a stretch of some of the best drafts in history that saw us pumping out excellent starters with rounds 1-3 including rolling over TON of high end ni ol. Book end that with the greatest qb come back of all time and two of the best imo tackles of an era and fantastic cfl free agent pick ups like biggie Willy and a few dbs. The 19/21 rosters were insanely deep. We had back ups and multiple starters jump to the nfl. More than the previous 20 years worth of teams. And refuse to make use of a naturalized ni, or dress no back up cover guys, dbs, start dead weight lbers etc. walker has become more productive and that’s great. But the problem still exists and is the same as last year when we had sayles who was even better. This D needs a nose. walker isn’t soo good that he offsets that loss. He’s gone from a none factor to good in a couple games. The last time we had a qb get hit soo frequently on a regular basis drew Willy happened. And the last time collaros was hit this much the world thought his career was over.

The coaches devote 60+ hours a week to working closely with the players and reviewing game and practice film. Our exposure to the players is limited to brief media clips and a 3-hour game each week. It would be asinine to presume that we possess even a fraction of the insight into player personnel decisions that the coaching staff has.

It comes as no great surprise to me that Shawn Lemon chose the team likely offering him the most substantial paycheck and the best opportunity to be the #1 guy. He seems to prioritize his own interests over his team's, but that's not necessarily a negative trait in this league. I suppose you could say my opinion of Lemon is rather sour...

Why would Edmonton trade away one of the few impact players that they have?