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Regardless of who the backup was they were a better option than a qb who can't use his hand.

I would have been ok giving either of our qbs with all of their fingers a chance to finish that game.

Calgary hasn't hosted a playoff game since 2019 and hasn't won anything since 2018. They've been down for a long time by CFL standards, especially when Edmonton and Ottawa are so bad too. QB play in the league is bad. If you protect Zach and give him some receivers we could have the best offense in the league pretty quick. It's basically Rourke, Alexander and everyone else. Harris is consistently average, BLM and VAJ had a few good games but are terribly inconsistent. Arbuckle and Fajardo can get you 6-7 wins. Keep in mind all these other QB's were scrap heaped long ago. Harris was dumped by Edmonton and Montreal 4-5 years ago and just won the Grey Cup. Who do you go get that gives you a better chance to win a CFL game than Collaros tomorrow? If you're thinking you're just going to throw a rookie on the field and magic....well go back from about 1995 to 2016 and live that over.

If you could land Philpot, a trio of Philpot, Demski and Clercius starting, 2 on the OL and 2 on D would likely make us better.

Man, if we did that, with a canadian Lber and DB, we'd be back to beating up teams in the trenches fast.

Tweaking isn't going to be enough to get back into the top teams conversation. Continuity, at this juncture, is just continuing the downward trend we've been on for the last 3 years.

I mean do we really need a top down rebuild? There's still some good pieces here, just need to add some stars which could be done in free agency... and then jetison some dead weight. Things aren't as dire as all that yet.

I watched the presser. My takeaways were different from some of what I read on the board. Walters all but admitted it’s time for a rebuild and set the bar high for this year by saying it can be done quickly. No pay cut for Zach, but that’s partly due to how bad the supports were around him, he said. That suggests there will be hard conversations about the OC, receivers and Oline. He even admitted the Bombers squeaked out some wins despite playing bad football. Only quality wins were over B.C. and Hamilton. That suggests he has his eyes open. The entire organization under achieved this year, except for maybe Vaval and Carol in the ticket office.. It sounds like this season stung the people in charge and course correction is ahead. We will see.

Its just a flesh wound

no one will get a shot at qb as long as zach has a pulse and a contract

Ok but how do you feel about Jason Boltus?

Because it's an obvious example of the blidners this team has had in certain areas that have held them back and led to the situation they are currently in.

We should've never been in that position where its dole or wilson in a grey cup lol.

only way to find out tho...is give them a chance for a game or 2...lord knows we give craptacular guys seasons worth of chances Shay was regarded as the most pro ready LB in the draft...Smith not far behind.... Yet Ham found success with raw rookie....BC as well withbtheir guys the last few yrs got a lot of play time...and Nat...Import....doesnt matter.....Shay is a national by the wide range in the determination...he's as American as American as can be.. I can see the argument with Canadians coming in from the CIS....Not Canadians who played NCAA and or Prep school before that...they are light yrs ahead of the curve as the CIS guys Regardless...Osh wont or rarely gives Imports reps as the back-up ....and thats a big reason why we roster and play walking wounded as the actual backups get zero play time...so he has no clue what they can do, let alone if they have the mental part down.... true true....that being said...we need to dump some baggage...and be open to our ratio and deviate from how its been for basically...10 yrs now And Osh cant have a hissy fit of Walters says Thomas..Kramdi..Kolo...Wilson...and others aren't being sked back...and guys like T.Jones are not the default starter

Just continuing to overpay guys for what they used to do, hoping that somehow they will recapture something that is gone. It's sad. Listening to Walters talk about how every personnel decision was a yelling fight with Mos makes me think maybe he will take a big stab at the old boys club. He has been whittling away guys each year, far too few and too slowly, but it has been going down. I think that 1 of Jake, Kola, Kyrie, and Stan will be gone this offseason by our choice. But maybe Walters will shake loose 2 of those guys. I include Stan as Walters, "he was solid at LT," was about the harshest critique Big Stan has ever seen here. I'd much prefer to kick Stan inside and kick Kola to the curb. If we get rid of Kola and Jake, hell, we might have a chance lol. But then Mos might riot. I think Walters is going to go out a spend a NUT on WRS. Maybe Tim white, maybe Philpot. I could see Walters letting DBs walk, too. Kramdi, Holm, and Nichols at 140-150k last year was pretty crazy. Especially since JY has been one of the best at taking rookies and having them excel right away. I think 1 or 2 of those guys are gone.

In Walter's press conference, he was asked about Zach's deal, and he still thinks Zach is worth 600k. (He unofficially confirmed the 600k, and I assume the 350k ish gaurenteed again) I broke down his playoff stats a couple of years ago, which were even more dismal than I expected. Here is some more fun with Zach's numbers. He has played 31 games in his last two seasons, and during that time, he has averaged 238 yards passing, 1 interception, and 1 touchdown per game. 14 of his 31 games have been under that average of 238 yards passing, 7/31 games have been 300 or more. With 10 games very close to his average. In 24 games out of 31, we see average, or bad Zach. And average Zach is pretty bad. 12/31 gave had more ints than tds. 8/31 games have had more TDs than INTs. His 2 best games of the last year skew his stats by 762 yards, 9tds and 0 INTs. If you remove his 2 best games of last year, his average per game drops to 228 yards per game, and .8 tds per game. If you create a split of good Zach vs Zach the rest of the time over the past 2 seasons, you get this; Good Zach, 2134 yards, 16 tds, 4 ints in 7 games. for 304 yards per game. A full season would be 5,472 yards, 41 tds, and 10 Ints. Common Zach, 5,250 18 tds 27 ints in the other 24 games for 218.75 yards per game. A full season of this Zach would put up 3937 yards, 13 tds, 20 ints. In 7 of Zach's last 31 games, he has been worth 600k. That is very comparable to what BLM and Rourke did this year. In the other 24 games Zach has played, well, you'd be better off taking Fajardo's worst 1.5-2 years. Or any other maligned QB that started in this league currently. Like MBT. 77.4% Zachs games played the past 2 seasons, he's been one of, if not the worst, starting QB in the league. If we fix "X", "Y", and "Z", does that mean we flip those games and see good Zach 77% of the time? Well, we didn't have the worst pass blocking OL over he past 2 years, far from the worst run game, and didn't have the worst WR core. (As dismal as the WR core has been, it has featured guys like Wilson, Demski, and Lawler over 2 seasons.) I don't see us having the ability to get a premium QB this year, even if we weren't locked into Zach. I think the best hope is that if we significantly improve at OC, OL, and WR, Zach will be a coin flip between league average (instead of arguably worst) and MOP. Yep, and when you see the fast turnaround without a year of bad ball, it's because of a QB change. Going from a mccheese to VAJ will flip your fortunes fast.

ZC had good supports in and around him in 2024...and basically kinda sucked too....the concern tho is the arguing with him and Osh...basically confirms that Osh pouts and has a huge say in a lot of the crap we rostered...that has to stop now and Wlter's needs to slap on the big boy pants and say here is what u are getting for players...make it work....You dont like it...dont let the door hit u on the ass on way out...That dynamic is bad bad bad...and makes a lot of sense now....Osh needs to be the HC and thats that....

Zach needs help but can't blame it all on Hogan. Zach is 16-14 with 34 tds passes and 31 ints over the past two years. The decline is real.

Is there such thing as a rebuild in the CFL when 6 of 9 teams make the playoffs and most contracts are extremely short? Roster turnover is huge across the league.

Yup, Osh said that in his presser after the playoff loss to Montreal as per Paul Friesen's story here. Someone quoted the same story it was discussed here. Osh said he didn't believe a rebuild is needed. He hoped that wouldn't happen. He just thought a tweaking was needed. Read the article. https://winnipegsun.com/sports/fix-the-offence-bombers-collaros-oliveira-got-osheas-attention

This season the offense was on the entire organization. Walters signed that high priced receiver from Edmonton & Osh barely played him. Damn, at one point we had Chris Streveler playing wideout on a bum knee. We signed Dalton Schoen & he never should have seen the fie;d this season. He was cooked by O'Shea playing him on a torn ACL. Zach was then handec an OC who was the worst in the CFL & now it looks like he'll be back again. We have the worst starting CEnter in the CFL & the OL suffers because of it. I can't blame Collaros. I thin k it's more 65/35 Bombers seem to have become a somewhat dysfunctional organization. If you heard the comments from both Osh & Walters. More of the same coming in 2026.

Will Zach realize his limits and adjust his style of play?

Well, Zach's under contract for another year. What's he supposed to do? Cut him? That'll end well for us. The reality is he's going to be our guy for atleast another season, because there's nobody waiting in the wings. Hands are tied. Yes that's the fault of Walters As far as him not changing the way we do things. I could be mistaken but isn't that taken out of context? I thought he was referring to the way he communicates with players in the off season (response to Lawler and bighill) I got the overall impression changes were coming. Perhaps I've misconstrued it, or perhaps you did. Only time will tell

not really the viibe i got...saying ZC earned his 600k salary...when asked about his last 2 sessons and 17 td/15 and 16 pick seasons.....said he showed glimpses...like wtf Also...we not gonna change the way we do things....thats super psoitive considering the way they been doing it has us nose diving 4 straight yrs.... Lots of deflection...excuses...non-answers really in my opinion...and we all know how Osh goes about stuff...and the "not changing the way we do things" comment...more the same Interesting part was his comment about almost heated argumwnts/yelling discussions about player type stuff....kinda confirms Osh pouts and put up a fuss when he didnt like Walters take on certain things....thats gotta change in a biiiiiiig way...He dont like it...Osh can eff off FIFO right?...

and hence why we let a guy we groomed for 3 yrs...got substantial work here along the way and showed great potential walk for basically nothing...Sure hindsight is 20/20....but also good teams...and great coaches see the future in the now...and make the tough...sometimes hard decisions...Loyalty shouldnt be a currency that keeps you employed, or starting in the same place forever he got less grooming than Brown got here tho....and did significantly less than Brown did...Yet MTL had the foresight to look forward and project their squad so to speak and would be the best option for them...We didnt...there were many signs ZC was in serious decline and we just kept referencing 2019-2021 and some reg season success....but poor playoff performances see above If Huff was here..Bouno....even ol Cal....Brown woulda been kept..ZC traded

Me too and he has the right passport.

Why wouldn't Dru count? He may be with Ottawa but Winnipeg absolutely groomed him - they just chose to stick with ZC. It's no different than how Arbuckle was touted as the next big Calgary QB for a couple seasons but he was behind a prime BLM so he was shipped off to (coincidentally) Ottawa. Calgary had Maier after that and they eventually felt confident enough to move on from BLM. Neither guy panned out as an elite starter but Calgary still spend a few seasons developing each of them.

I am absolutely in love with AJ Allen as a player. I'm not sure we ever go after that position in FA but I think he's just super intelligent, which is the key to success in this league.

It is not for lack of trying; the league is in a bad spot to attract QBs and is doing a poor job of developing them. The NFL is struggling to adapt Qbs to their game, and sitting on guys much longer, and they have the room to hold guys around now. Not to mention the increased pay. Plus dru brown, and Rourke.

Alexander has 4 seasons under his belt now - he was definitely groomed to take over.

Exposed at Wil? I mean, in pass coverage, we had the most vulnerable Mlber in the league. Or more than a bunch of the DBs were early? Teams around the league started rookie NI lbers this year to great success. Cis kids too, not sort of kind of Canadians like Shay and Smith. Smith played a hybrid DB position,l ike how we use the Sam up here in college, too. Wil isn't some high-risk position; it's pretty much the DH of the D. You can hide an awful lot a Wil and Mac in the CFL. That's why it's become a low-risk risk high-reward position to flip the ratio at. Elgersma is basically our long-term hope at QB. But I do mean long term. He needs to be on the AR and getting some work in practice, but I don't see him jumping into starting. QBs do start sooner than ever, but it would be insane if he even kept pace with the line Rourke set. Where he showed promise as a starter in 21 after being drafted in 19, then was pretty bad in a fraction of a season 24, then really finally cemented him self this year as an elite starter. I will be very interested to see how Elgersma progresses, being a CIS kid who got a pre-season in the NFL, but didn't come up here for the end of year. If he had come here and gotten some grooming on the PR, maybe dressed late, that could've been a real career accelerator. But like Walters said, rookie TC is hard for a QB, and it is also the biggest opportunity for one. Unless he is our short yardage guy, I don't expect to see him take a regular season snap next year.

just more examples of poor coaching and how coaching has killed us in every cup loss....and this season too.... And maybe that wasnt all on the defense but more on ZC himself....Not like ZC had never seen the Argo's or their schemes....again....a good coach may have made a switch...even if just for a series or 2...to see Worked for ARGOS taking a Cup away from us when Dinwiddies Yanked Vet Looney Tunes for raw rookie the Pest.....pretty savvy coaching decision.....How that turn out again? First means nothing tho really if yhou cant finish it off....and we won a lot of reg season games in spite of the things that ail us....wins just glossed over some things and made it seem we good.... I'd rather finish 2nd...3rd....win 9...10 games a yr and win when it mattered....but to each their own I guess where they consider "success|"

this....And that Our D came in pretty hot in 2022 and 2023 as well.....best in league...fewest points surrendered....and how that turn out? You cant assume that....But safe to assume a QB who was healthy and could actually hang on to a ball...and handle it properly let alone throw....would likely do better than one who couldn't..

Totally. Why are people acting like Collaros would've magically won the game if his hand wasn't injured. The game was toast. Offense was completely unprepared. Collaros had thrown for what, 3 first downs all game until that point in the 4th? He was absolute dogshit in the Grey Cup with a healthy hand

Why the hell are we arguing about the 2024 cup right now. Toronto's D came in hot and would have diced up whoever played at QB. It doesn't matter.

I'm pretty sure we did. Idk if we used the most Canadians, but we had several games of 9 starters. Yep. Should be in a good position to get the extra pick atleast.

If we go shopping in FA, and draft well, we can be right back in the mix next year.

I think he on record saying he allots so much for each position group...so fairly rigid...and maybe time to deviate...same with ratio

speaking of crack hahaha

Holy **** is there some bad crack going around town? I'm still disappointed we gave up so quick on Max Hall.

I don't believe it's that rigid. Just that he knows if he spends $300,000 on a Z receiver that means one of the slot receivers has to be a rookie kind of thing. Pretty standard budgeting.

we could run BO...Demski..Clercius and 2 national Olineman and 2 Canadians on defence with what we have right now and be a better team if the right guys are used....thats not even factoring in going any legit FA Canadian for defence, OR drafting smart and targeting legit potential starters and not these ST only plugs...Sask started Allen who really isnt even that good....but produces well and Shay and Smith both have way better metrics and skill/upside here and if started wouldnt have hurt us at all, and would have been light yrs ahead of where they are currently, and the other net positive of that would have allowed us to start/roster another impact defender on the dline...but we'd rather go the "other" route....and play sub par guys cause Osh likes them, and they been here a while....

Every single off-season, at least 7-8 teams retool in free agency. Full-scale rebuilds are rarer; it's more often that teams hire a new HC and we see where the mostly new roster falls. Like we will see in Ottawa this offseason. I think the closest thing to a rebuild we see these days is what happened in Calgary. Even BC's D was rebuilt mid-season. We've rebuilt secondaries mid-season multiple times in the last 6 seasons. NI talent is hard to rebuild fast, though 1 great draft can change a lot as we've seen a few times. Ols are generally slower to build, but teams are starting to realize we don't need to be married to forcing 3-5 canadians into those spots like teams used to. 3 imp ols are becoming more common and we've seen some 4 imp lines last year. Going Imp, and heavy, allows you to build the ol much faster. WR cores build fast, it's really just QB which you get or you don't have.

yeah..."he's earned" his 600k....and we saw "glimpses" of what he can do....good god...Thats not glimpses of potential...its glimpses of what was....and wont be the norm.....And awesome break down...thats some fuggly assed **** for 650k.... I guess we should be ready for the JT re-up as I am sure his 18 games and 9 defensive tackles for 2025 has earned his 130k or more salary....and yes...those were his stats as a top 3 reps dlineman on the squad...let that marinate Osh looks back at what was as does Walter's apparently....I have zero faith at moment....none....

Yeah, this is a big question I have too. With the staff pumping his tires all the time, I doubt it will happen. But maybe, if we had an OC he respects, that tailored a game plan to his current skill set, it could work. I think we can all agree that there is no respect for the current OC.

Hall has been coaching in the cfl for 30 years and isn’t an offensive mind. Ourstaff has more than enough experience with this game to know how dismal our play and game plan was last year. And yet it didn’t help us a tiny bit. No reason to think they will start effectively micro managing the O with success. We’ve seen the same mistakes from staff to office, repeated over years all with crushing season ends. We’ve heard all the talk of change, and how we know what we need to do. The only thing that will give reasonable hope that next year will be different, is action. Idc if mos/walters came out and said jake/kola/hogan etc cost us, or pointed at every single failing and said all the right things for plans to actually fix the issues. Only actions matter now.

When Osh played ,what side of the ball did he play? In what universe does that make him an "offensive" mind???

Maybe I'm optimistic but there is reason to believe that it isn't business and usual for next season. This is the first time I've heard O'Shea talk about not having done a good enough job coaching especially the offense. Both O'Shea and Walters realize that last year was a step back and that's also something they have never admitted in previous seasons. (usually all we hear is how this team has great leadership and they will figure it out) Walters stated that they needed to do a better job of surrounding Zac with talent, another indicator of change (he also talked about how it's easier to revamp your team with all the one year contracts being the norm for most teams)

I thought Walters was pretty firm in his desire for change in the presser. A lot of acknowledgement and dissapointment. I suspect change is coming. Basically said hey this is a turning point and it's time for us to wake up

Collaros cant play forever, and even O’Shea with his Collaros loving tinted glasses can see he is in decline. The end is near and we have NOBODY in the pipeline other than Elgersma. He wil be given EVERY opportunity to succeed and then some. He is a blue chip prospect.