SpeedFlex27 Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, Noeller said: I am absolutely convinced, based on everything we've read, that the Losers chose Buck and told Mace no thanks... Then the Bombers found a way to keep Pierce with more money etc.... and then the Losers were ****** and had no options so they had to go back to Mace and apologize because he was the only option. We screw them. The Riders want to screw us. Tere are just some rules in the universe that don't need to be written.. Stickem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanna-B-Fanboy Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 56 minutes ago, bustamente said: Stickem, GCJenks, rebusrankin and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted November 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted November 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 Tracker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedFlex27 Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 (edited) An inexperienced OC in Mueller. The Stamps offense was very putrid last season. It just keeps getting better & better. Edited November 30, 2023 by SpeedFlex27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue204 Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said: Has it been made official? If I was a Rider fan, I'd be underwhelmed as the team didn't get its first choice in Buck, it seems. Nothing the Riders & their fans want more than to screw over the Bombers & let's face it. The hiring of Buck would have done just that. He'd have brought a couple of assistants & high profile Bomber free agents with him. Corey Mace is a relatively inexperienced DC. Only been at the job for 2 seasons after a couple of years as DL Coach in Calgary. He was fed great players to coach in Toronto defensively as they always have big signings as free agents as the salary cap means nothing to that team because the league seemingly always looks away. We'll see how Mace does with a team bereft of talent with a horrible culture of failure & "Me First" player attitudes. In an organization that doesn't have a silver spoon in its mouth like the Argos have. I don't know if Mace is ready. I suspect that he isn't. Glad it's Mace. He's gonna need a miracle to fix the Riders. Just replace Maces name with Buck in your rant and the same is true....with the exception of the spoon fed part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedFlex27 Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 Just now, Bigblue204 said: Just replace Maces name with Buck in your rant and the same is true....with the exception of the spoon fed part. Rant? Give me a break. If the Riders want to hire neophyte coaches in the hope of fixing all their problems then they're delusional. More power to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booch Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 4 hours ago, Tracker said: Would a sane person with a functioning cerebral cortex want to work under a GM who is on thin ice before the season starts? Buck says no lol 3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said: Has it been made official? If I was a Rider fan, I'd be underwhelmed as the team didn't get its first choice in Buck, it seems. Nothing the Riders & their fans want more than to screw over the Bombers & let's face it. The hiring of Buck would have done just that. He'd have brought a couple of assistants & high profile Bomber free agents with him. Corey Mace is a relatively inexperienced DC. Only been at the job for 2 seasons after a couple of years as DL Coach in Calgary. He was fed great players to coach in Toronto defensively as they always have big signings as free agents as the salary cap means nothing to that team because the league seemingly always looks away. We'll see how Mace does with a team bereft of talent with a horrible culture of failure & "Me First" player attitudes. In an organization that doesn't have a silver spoon in its mouth like the Argos have. I don't know if Mace is ready. I suspect that he isn't. Glad it's Mace. He's gonna need a miracle to fix the Riders. Yeah...is this Claybrooks 2.0 setting up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 9 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said: Rant? Give me a break. If the Riders want to hire neophyte coaches in the hope of fixing all their problems then they're delusional. More power to them. So who would their ideal candidates have been? rebusrankin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 minute ago, bluto said: So who would their ideal candidates have been? Some people just love recycling the same old guys, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark H. Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 The Big Blue were in an almost identical situation - back in 2013 when they hired O'Shea. rebusrankin and Fatty Liver 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCn20 Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 hour ago, bluto said: So who would their ideal candidates have been? I agree Pierce, and to a lesser extent Mace, are both very solid up and coming coaches in this league. That's the pool to choose from. Bigblue204, rebusrankin and Jesse 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booch Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 now question is who is he planning to try and round out his staff with?...and who will decline?...The stench of oday still there....and the putz above him can't be overly appealing....he may have a green fresh staff.... Bigblue204, rebusrankin and Stickem 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Unger Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 If it's true we offered more money to Buck I don't know how we managed to do it. Somehow we fit Walters in the football operations cap. We have a head coach who is probably the highest paid in the league and he doesn't double as a defensive co-ordinator or offensive co-ordinator so we have to pay both of those positions as well? How do we keep doing this whereas the Riders had to make Mace the DC as well as a result of the cap. Ballsy Style Rumor: I think the timing of O'Shea's comment about wishing they could pay more money to their assistant coaches is interesting. Is it possible Buck played a game of chicken (similar to Walters) and lost? He wanted to use this as leverage to get paid what he's worth as an offensive co-ordinators. Bombers couldn't do it. O'Shea made public comments blaming the cap for not being able to pay him and the other coaches more. Ultimately, Buck came back for not much of a raise if any. Thoughts? Im really surprised that the Riders wouldn't go after June Jones or Paul Lapolice as the offensive co-ordinator with a head coach who has no offensive experience and will have his hands full on double duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 26 minutes ago, Booch said: now question is who is he planning to try and round out his staff with?...and who will decline?...The stench of oday still there....and the putz above him can't be overly appealing....he may have a green fresh staff.... 1 hour ago, Mark H. said: The Big Blue were in an almost identical situation - back in 2013 when they hired O'Shea. Some would suggest that Osh was the more risky pick with his Coordinator experience having been in STs. Mark H. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booch Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 22 minutes ago, bluto said: Some would suggest that Osh was the more risky pick with his Coordinator experience having been in STs. Osh was a huge risky pick...100 percent....But we wanted a culture shift, and thats who Wde and Walters identified as who to best run what they envisioned...They also wanted a fresh face not far removed from today's player as well...which was key.. rebusrankin, Bigblue204 and Mark H. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCn20 Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 24 minutes ago, bluto said: Some would suggest that Osh was the more risky pick with his Coordinator experience having been in STs. Nah. MOS was widely known to be 10x the leader of men that Mace is. Mace is a good coach don't get me wrong, but anyone with a set of eyeballs could see MOS was the top choice. In this latest competition I don't think many would have considered Mace the top choice. Bigblue204 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted November 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 47 minutes ago, Booch said: Osh was a huge risky pick...100 percent....But we wanted a culture shift, and thats who Wde and Walters identified as who to best run what they envisioned...They also wanted a fresh face not far removed from today's player as well...which was key.. I know you're on this whole thing about how Osh isn't that important and is just a product of the people above him...... but the reality is that the 3 are apparently in total lock-step and have been since the beginning. They all apparently believe the same things, and with Osh and Walters, in particular, they've been extremely close friends going back to their playing days (great stories from Walters on the Handled Internally podcast). So I really don't think Osh is this interchangeable piece that anyone could fit into..... he's extremely important, as are the other two. A really good example of their similarities.... someone mentioned a couple days ago about Osh and his wife staying late after the 2021 GC "parade" at the stadium and picking up garbage...... then you have Wade, before that year's West Final, in the bleachers, shoveling out snow before the game because we'd just had a blast of it the night before. That's just such a good encapsulation of how all of these guys are the exact same personality..... they're "hands in the muck", whatever it takes to get the job done...... kinda guys. So I guess all I'm saying is, the stuff you're hating on Osh for, I'd be surprised if the other guys weren't in agreement with him..... because they've shown to be the same in virtually everything since the beginning. Bigblue204, MrFreakzilla, MOBomberFan and 3 others 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booch Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 24 minutes ago, Noeller said: I know you're on this whole thing about how Osh isn't that important and is just a product of the people above him...... but the reality is that the 3 are apparently in total lock-step and have been since the beginning. They all apparently believe the same things, and with Osh and Walters, in particular, they've been extremely close friends going back to their playing days (great stories from Walters on the Handled Internally podcast). So I really don't think Osh is this interchangeable piece that anyone could fit into..... he's extremely important, as are the other two. A really good example of their similarities.... someone mentioned a couple days ago about Osh and his wife staying late after the 2021 GC "parade" at the stadium and picking up garbage...... then you have Wade, before that year's West Final, in the bleachers, shoveling out snow before the game because we'd just had a blast of it the night before. That's just such a good encapsulation of how all of these guys are the exact same personality..... they're "hands in the muck", whatever it takes to get the job done...... kinda guys. So I guess all I'm saying is, the stuff you're hating on Osh for, I'd be surprised if the other guys weren't in agreement with him..... because they've shown to be the same in virtually everything since the beginning. of course they are....But they hired OSH as he shard the same vision...not the other way around...that being aid...Only a complete idiotic moron would ruin everything that this team is about if they took over...Its not a magic elixir of rocket science and pixy dust Jesse 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted November 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, Booch said: of course they are....But they hired OSH as he shard the same vision...not the other way around...that being aid...Only a complete idiotic moron would ruin everything that this team is about if they took over...Its not a magic elixir of rocket science and pixy dust I'm definitely not saying you're wrong, but nobody forced Osh to come to Winnipeg.... you COULD argue (as we've just done with the Buck situation) that Osh was interviewing them as much as they interviewed him.... and he was a hot commodity....seen as one of the hottest up and coming HC prospects........ so I think it was likely both. He chose Wade and Kyle because he knew they believed in the same things as him.....and vice versa. At any rate, all three of them believe the same things and make decisions as a group. I truly do believe that. MOBomberFan and roddy315 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue204 Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 hour ago, GCn20 said: Nah. MOS was widely known to be 10x the leader of men that Mace is. Mace is a good coach don't get me wrong, but anyone with a set of eyeballs could see MOS was the top choice. In this latest competition I don't think many would have considered Mace the top choice. I absolutely did. When he reupped with the Argos earlier, I was surprised as I thought he'd look for opportunities to move up. When it became known that it was between him and Buck, I said the smart choice is Mace. The strength of that Argos team was always the defense. He had a really strong roster but he also got the absolute best out of them. And from all accounts the team loved the guy. Who knows how he'll do now that he's the man, but saying he wasn't a top choice is just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Liver Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Colin Unger said: If it's true we offered more money to Buck I don't know how we managed to do it. Somehow we fit Walters in the football operations cap. We have a head coach who is probably the highest paid in the league and he doesn't double as a defensive co-ordinator or offensive co-ordinator so we have to pay both of those positions as well? How do we keep doing this whereas the Riders had to make Mace the DC as well as a result of the cap. Ballsy Style Rumor: I think the timing of O'Shea's comment about wishing they could pay more money to their assistant coaches is interesting. Is it possible Buck played a game of chicken (similar to Walters) and lost? He wanted to use this as leverage to get paid what he's worth as an offensive co-ordinators. Bombers couldn't do it. O'Shea made public comments blaming the cap for not being able to pay him and the other coaches more. Ultimately, Buck came back for not much of a raise if any. Thoughts? Im really surprised that the Riders wouldn't go after June Jones or Paul Lapolice as the offensive co-ordinator with a head coach who has no offensive experience and will have his hands full on double duty. What's the penalty for exceeding the operations cap? Might be nothing more than a slap on the wrist, could be Miller decided retaining Buck was worth the price of the penalty, and upped him just enough to convince him to stay. The team was already at the top of the cap, so there wasn't any loose change to throw Buck's way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Zaius Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said: What's the penalty for exceeding the operations cap? Might be nothing more than a slap on the wrist, could be Miller decided retaining Buck was worth the price of the penalty, and upped him just enough to convince him to stay. The team was already at the top of the cap, so there wasn't any loose change to throw Buck's way. Teams that violate the cap are subject to a dollar-for-dollar fine for the first $100,000 they go over. For violations over $100,000, teams will forfeit a draft pick(s) while being assessed a fine between $25,000 to $250,000. I would be perfectly okay with purposely going $99,000 over the operations cap every year if it means retaining the staff. Edited November 30, 2023 by Dr Zaius Fatty Liver, Noeller and Jesse 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booch Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 Just now, Dr Zaius said: Teams that violate the cap are subject to a dollar-for-dollar fine for the first $100,000 they go over. For violations over $100,000, teams will forfeit a draft pick(s) while being assessed a fine between $25,000 to $250,000. I would be perfectly okay with purposely going $99,000 over the operations cap every year if it means retaining the staff. is that not for the Players cap?...Or does the admin cap carry the same penalty too? Noeller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedFlex27 Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 15 minutes ago, Booch said: is that not for the Players cap?...Or does the admin cap carry the same penalty too? Yes, so would I. The caps are way too low. Both of them. The only way are for teams to violate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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