Remember Swaggerville?

I think that was the most fun year for me, ever, watching our Big Blue. I don’t think we’ve ever come close to duplicating that kind of magnitude on defence. It spread to the whole team, all three phases of the game: special-teams and   offense’s rose to the occasion game after game but it was the talent and special pride on defence that carried the day, week after week after week.

Any idea why we could not get that back now or in the near future?

Edited September 17, 20232 yr by BigBlue

6 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Of course, the Bombers are dealing with the salary cap. Every team is. Why do you think 5 teams were over the cap last season? The cap needs to be higher. It's going up by 100,000 next season. Every year players want raises. Inflation eats up just about all of that. So, rosters are constantly in flux with players moving everywhere.

It's not just about Lawler. Chris Jones signed him for over $300,000 in 2022. He did the same with Eugene Lewis this past off season so that's what the market now pays. . What about teams overpaying Canadian OL beginning with what Ottawa is paying Desjarlais? Thanks to contracts to Zach Collaros & now Chad Kelly, elite CFL qbs will now make anywhere from $550-650,000. Dalton Schoen will want similar money to Lawler & Lewis. He'd be right in asking.

But do you actually think the league will do anything about rapidly rising salaries & a salary cap that is now too small?? Like raising the salary cap by a million dollars? Or allowing teams to sign one player like an elite qb to a separate contract outside of the salary cap so that a significant amount of salary isn't eating up the cap? Thus making it harder to sign other stars & keep them from moving to another team?  The league wil do nothing. The salary cap numbers are embedded into the Collective Agreement. To do so, would mean having to open up negotiations with the Players Association again which the BOG's don't want to do. Ambrosie is going around telling everyone that the league finally has long term stability with the Players. Opening up the Agreement would affect that stability. Not happening.

The Coaches & Management Cap is a real negative. Another dumb idea brought in & foisted on teams by Randy Ambrosie & the BOG's. trying to cheap out in this area negatively affects teams in so many ways. But it looks like the Cap isn't going away, unfortunately. So, being tired is just part of the job. Coaches & administraors will just have to get used to it. 

Raising the cap just means the same group of players is getting more money. Players going into free agency might move to other teams and vice versa for more money. Not every team is making a profit so some giant increase to the SMS is neither feasible or some miracle solution.  It's always been a bidding war trying to get the best bang for the buck.

 

Would Collaros play better if he was getting $880K instead of $600K more or less. Kelly gets over $600K after 10 games?   It just means that players reaching free agency get more as the pie is larger. Desjarlais as another example.

Edited September 18, 20232 yr by Blue In BC

If they don't make changes to the front 7, Ford and Brown can absolutely beat us at home. The only game I am not worried about is the Stamps game, and by then it might be too late to matter.

42 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

If they don't make changes to the front 7, Ford and Brown can absolutely beat us at home. The only game I am not worried about is the Stamps game, and by then it might be too late to matter.

what do you mean too late to matter? lol. This is a playoff team. They got to the show. Everything on top of this is gravy imo.

On a diff note...Schoen has hit over 1000 yards again....Demski is 69 yards away and amazingly Lawler needs only 380 over last 4 gams to hit that mark as well, and that would be in only 12 games played....and probably have over 30 TD's combined between them...pretty damn good top 3 on a team

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

what do you mean too late to matter? lol. This is a playoff team. They got to the show. Everything on top of this is gravy imo.

Too late to matter for first. I thought that was kind of obvious?

12 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Of course, the Bombers are dealing with the salary cap. Every team is. Why do you think 5 teams were over the cap last season? The cap needs to be higher. It's going up by 100,000 next season. Every year players want raises. Inflation eats up just about all of that. So, rosters are constantly in flux with players moving everywhere.

It's not just about Lawler. Chris Jones signed him for over $300,000 in 2022. He did the same with Eugene Lewis this past off season so that's what the market now pays. . What about teams overpaying Canadian OL beginning with what Ottawa is paying Desjarlais? Thanks to contracts to Zach Collaros & now Chad Kelly, elite CFL qbs will now make anywhere from $550-650,000. Dalton Schoen will want similar money to Lawler & Lewis. He'd be right in asking.

But do you actually think the league will do anything about rapidly rising salaries & a salary cap that is now too small?? Like raising the salary cap by a million dollars? Or allowing teams to sign one player like an elite qb to a separate contract outside of the salary cap so that a significant amount of salary isn't eating up the cap? Thus making it harder to sign other stars & keep them from moving to another team?  The league wil do nothing. The salary cap numbers are embedded into the Collective Agreement. To do so, would mean having to open up negotiations with the Players Association again which the BOG's don't want to do. Ambrosie is going around telling everyone that the league finally has long term stability with the Players. Opening up the Agreement would affect that stability. Not happening.

The Coaches & Management Cap is a real negative. Another dumb idea brought in & foisted on teams by Randy Ambrosie & the BOG's. trying to cheap out in this area negatively affects teams in so many ways. But it looks like the Cap isn't going away, unfortunately. So, being tired is just part of the job. Coaches & administraors will just have to get used to it. 

:"The Coaches & Management Cap is a real negative. "

it needs to change more than anything except maybe refereeing budget

 

6 hours ago, Booch said:

On a diff note...Schoen has hit over 1000 yards again....Demski is 69 yards away and amazingly Lawler needs only 380 over last 4 gams to hit that mark as well, and that would be in only 12 games played....and probably have over 30 TD's combined between them...pretty damn good top 3 on a team

This is why it is so frustrating when the offense gets bogged down.  It's so bloody stacked there should be no excuses.

7 hours ago, Blue In BC said:

Raising the cap just means the same group of players is getting more money. Players going into free agency might move to other teams and vice versa for more money. Not every team is making a profit so some giant increase to the SMS is neither feasible or some miracle solution.  It's always been a bidding war trying to get the best bang for the buck.

 

Would Collaros play better if he was getting $880K instead of $600K more or less. Kelly gets over $600K after 10 games?   It just means that players reaching free agency get more as the pie is larger. Desjarlais as another example.

My point was simply that coaching & support  sstaff should be taken out of the players salary cap

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

This is why it is so frustrating when the offense gets bogged down.  It's so bloody stacked there should be no excuses.

AMEN !!!

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

This is why it is so frustrating when the offense gets bogged down.  It's so bloody stacked there should be no excuses.

Yup, an enormous amount of talent... there's a weak link on the oline- not sure who it is, but man when the protections breaks down, our whole ******* game evaporates. 

 

1 hour ago, BigBlue said:

My point was simply that coaching & support  sstaff should be taken out of the players salary cap

AMEN !!!

The coaching / support staff is under a separate SMS. There is a problem with the concept but it has no impact on money spent on players. They should revise it so that it excludes severance salary if changes are made to staff. That becomes a limitation if a firing occurs.

Complacency could be a factor

Some folks kinda refuse to believe it at times But really the biggest problem is Zach hasn't been that great. Yeah throws for yards and tds but, he's made more stupid rookie qb mistakes this year also... when the guy who touches the ball every o snap is struggling... 

Leadership could be a factor

The team has come out flat consistently this year. More often than not, the O in particular does **** all for 1.5 quarters sometimes more, the d seems to struggle early also, in hockey I'd put that partially on coaching, so I think it's coaching partially here also, but also on the players who shouldn't need to be motivated by a rah rah speech 

In games we have lost, Collaros has been real bad. Even in some we won. Not just him but... the O struggles are my biggest concern 

You can look at Jackson or Thomas or Schmekel or some random dude who plays 2 snaps a game but they aren't why we struggle at times or lose. We lose because our high priced QB looks like a rookie some games 

Edited September 18, 20232 yr by Goalie

On 2023-09-17 at 11:58 AM, 17to85 said:

2019 playoff run D was far superior to swaggerville.

Literally record breaking

The being un-prepared is a function of coaching not ensuring everything is addressed, and possibly giving too much leeway on letting the locker room self police....which Osh has said he does, and thats where also some complaceny may have crept in as even tho we are a roster full of legit quality veterans, they have won a lot, and did a lot of easy winning and may have lost their edge a bit...it happens to the best of them.....Osh maybe needs to take a bit more control again and get a good feel for the pulse of things, and also injecting some young hungry blood wouldn't hurt too....not wholesale, but 2 or 3 position shuffles would do wonders, and also put a bit more of a spark into other vets, with now knowing they can be replaced....

22 minutes ago, Booch said:

Osh maybe needs to take a bit more control again and get a good feel for the pulse of things, and also injecting some young hungry blood wouldn't hurt too....not wholesale, but 2 or 3 position shuffles would do wonders, and also put a bit more of a spark into other vets, with now knowing they can be replaced....

Part of O'Shea's success is from the image he projects as a 'hands off' good guy...I have trouble with the suggestion that he'll make any adjustment to the way he coaches....He had the choice in tc to go with a changed approach but remained status quo, for the most part....We see now we have some glaring inefficiencies ....can we change that.....Still not too late as we have brought in a few prospects that IF injected into a game could make a difference....Will we???? A player like Blackmon, who reportedly looks pretty good at practice, should get a shot...we'll see

16 hours ago, Goalie said:

Complacency could be a factor

Some folks kinda refuse to believe it at times But really the biggest problem is Zach hasn't been that great. Yeah throws for yards and tds but, he's made more stupid rookie qb mistakes this year also... when the guy who touches the ball every o snap is struggling... 

Leadership could be a factor

The team has come out flat consistently this year. More often than not, the O in particular does **** all for 1.5 quarters sometimes more, the d seems to struggle early also, in hockey I'd put that partially on coaching, so I think it's coaching partially here also, but also on the players who shouldn't need to be motivated by a rah rah speech 

In games we have lost, Collaros has been real bad. Even in some we won. Not just him but... the O struggles are my biggest concern 

You can look at Jackson or Thomas or Schmekel or some random dude who plays 2 snaps a game but they aren't why we struggle at times or lose. We lose because our high priced QB looks like a rookie some games 

The DL isn't making any plays because they are totally gassed and that's obvious.  There is more than one issue.  You need a team effort to overcome when your QB isn't perfect.  Collaros can put up a game that someone like Nichols could only dream of and we lose because the D has no ability to get off the field.

On 2023-09-18 at 9:49 AM, Booch said:

On a diff note...Schoen has hit over 1000 yards again....Demski is 69 yards away and amazingly Lawler needs only 380 over last 4 gams to hit that mark as well, and that would be in only 12 games played....and probably have over 30 TD's combined between them...pretty damn good top 3 on a team

I really want Demski to hit 1k at home so the crowd can go crazy for him. 
 Brady for 1500 rushing/bomber ni record/ 2k yards from the line, woli could also break his career best mark of 650 this year. 

17 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

The DL isn't making any plays because they are totally gassed and that's obvious.  There is more than one issue.  You need a team effort to overcome when your QB isn't perfect.  Collaros can put up a game that someone like Nichols could only dream of and we lose because the D has no ability to get off the field.

The problem I have with our D is gassed is argument is that in the last 2 losses it's the 1Q when the majority of the scoring against our D occurred. We only gave up 7 points to Hammy in the 2nd half.....none in the 4Q. Does a gassed D suddenly get better as the game goes on?  I get that at times the D has looked gassed this season, but I am not sure it is a main factor in any loss except for the Ottawa game. Also, the D being gassed tends to coincide with stretches of games that our O is simply not moving the ball. 

I agree that we need a beefier DL rotation, especially down the stretch, and that it can be problematic. It is not the reason we lost to Hamilton or the LDC though. It was just one of a few problems that the Bombers need to iron out. The main one being coming out and actually showing up ready to match our opponents intensity EVERY game.

Edited September 19, 20232 yr by GCn20

Just now, wbbfan said:

I really want Demski to hit 1k at home so the crowd can go crazy for him. 
 Brady for 1500 rushing/bomber ni record/ 2k yards from the line, woli could also break his career best mark of 650 this year. 

yeah...can see all that occurring.....If we can just tweak that defence....roster better and just stick to the offensive game plan that is tried and true and just works against everybody'...we be aight

Just now, GCn20 said:

The problem I have with our D is gassed is argument is that in the last 2 losses it's the 1Q when the majority of the scoring against our D occurred. I get that at times the D has looked gas this season, but I am not sure it is a main factor in any loss except for the Ottawa game. Also, the D being gassed tends to coincide with stretches of games that our O is simply not moving the ball. 

I agree that we need a beefier DL rotation, especially down the stretch, and that it can be problematic. It is not the reason we lost to Hamilton or the LDC though.

goes hand in hand tho...when we do adjust on defence....it's a lot of times over using the players who...well are good, and they slowly wilt, add in that some games the offence is just stinking out the joint...well then we see what we have got

I am a former defensive player, and I can see the fatigue, and the times guys just cant get up and go, or have to kinda coast for plays, because they just need to.....It's obvious and clear to me as anything

And our depth guys to help take some of the burden for a lack of a better word are weak to barely adequate....sadly....no team but us rotates and relies on 6 dlineman, where 2 of them, are basically just roster fillers

 

 

24 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

The DL isn't making any plays because they are totally gassed and that's obvious.  There is more than one issue.  You need a team effort to overcome when your QB isn't perfect.  Collaros can put up a game that someone like Nichols could only dream of and we lose because the D has no ability to get off the field.

Which games have we lost because the D couldn't get off the field though? Maybe Ottawa, but offense makes some plays they don't have to be on the field either. Bc was mostly offense dragging it down,  sask was the offense, Hamilton the d got better as the game went on the offense got worse.

LEADERSHIP

there has been much discussion about the best head coaches of all time making personnel decisions with their aging all-stars

perhaps the quickest road to high skill levels comes from having an excellent mentor… The mentor apprentice conducted by a true professional model teaches things that take years of experimenting for rookies and sophomores to learn

what is vital to leadership is something called "succession planning"… It applies to football as much as it does to business

in 2024 & 2025 we are going to have to make some decisions (gradually hopefully) on the following players

Jeff Jeffcoat

Adam Bighill

Brandon Alexander

Winston Rose

Willie Jefferson

Stanley Bryant

Jamarius Hardrick

Patrick Neufeld

Zach Collaros

that is nine players on the leeward side of their careers... Still all-stars but for how long?

If we could do a couple this year heading into the playoffs, and three in spring Of 24 and the rest in the spring of 25, we have a decent shot at continuing to be champions

I have been a devoted bomber fan since 1961. In that time I have seen several dynasties including the one we are in. Most of them made the same mistake in not planning to grow new all-stars. The years of drought that followed as management panicked were appalling. Turnarounds at that point where well-nigh impossible.

What O'Shea built here with Walters has been amazing. However, O'Shea is a relatively young head coach. Like my first successful business I thought it would last forever, until it didn't. 

Somebody needs to give MOS some mentoring on renewal. As the posters have said above we could do that now by getting some of the taxi squad onto the field. We do not have to wait for next man up. Injured players are not great mentors.

May the dynasty continue!

 

Edited September 19, 20232 yr by BigBlue

1 hour ago, BigBlue said:

LEADERSHIP

there has been much discussion about the best head coaches of all time making personnel decisions with their aging all-stars

perhaps the quickest road to high skill levels comes from having an excellent mentor… The mentor apprentice conducted by a true professional model teaches things that take years of experimenting for rookies and sophomores to learn

what is vital to leadership is something called "succession planning"… It applies to football as much as it does to business

in 2024 & 2025 we are going to have to make some decisions (gradually hopefully) on the following players

Jeff Jeffcoat

Adam Bighill

Brandon Alexander

Winston Rose

Willie Jefferson

Stanley Bryant

Jamarius Hardrick

Patrick Neufeld

Zach Collaros

that is nine players on the leeward side of their careers... Still all-stars but for how long?

If we could do a couple this year heading into the playoffs, and three in spring Of 24 and the rest in the spring of 25, we have a decent shot at continuing to be champions

I have been a devoted bomber fan since 1961. In that time I have seen several dynasties including the one we are in. Most of them made the same mistake in not planning to grow new all-stars. The years of drought that followed as management panicked were appalling. Turnarounds at that point where well-nigh impossible.

What O'Shea built here with Walters has been amazing. However, O'Shea is a relatively young head coach. Like my first successful business I thought it would last forever, until it didn't. 

Somebody needs to give MOS some mentoring on renewal. As the posters have said above we could do that now by getting some of the taxi squad onto the field. We do not have to wait for next man up. Injured players are not great mentors.

May the dynasty continue!

 

the bolded part (taxi squad) does date you as a longer tenured fan...love it

And agree, and really going into this yr was the yr that we should have had at least 2 under studies working in and along with the starting lineup....That also goes for role players who are strictly just ST'ers...and a few guys should have been released in camp this yr as they are either 1) not gonna be in cogs next yr and beyond (Thomas...Machino...Scmeckle...even go as far to say Briggs) are a few off top my head and just blocking a fresh body of valuable experience and reps, or 2) They just not going to be good enough any more.

Doin whole sale moves of a bigger swath next year, which seems likely now is not the way to do it...and why you see some teams go from top dawg...to being a risk to not even make the play-offs in short order ....in almost stunning fashion.

Osh for all his success, still is learning and has some pretty significant flaws which it seems he is not willing to address, or maybe doesn't see and I chalk a lot of that up to his stubbornness and in some instances his personal bias's.....example the Nationalized American thing....no reason we don't use it, is because he doesn't agree with it, and likely in the rules committee mtg/vote was on the losing side of the majority

Look back to 2019...we made significant moves to address weakness....Brought in ZC...Maston...Taylor and moved BA...all came at the back-end of the season...the majority of it in final 4..5 weeks...and look how it revitalized, and transformed us....it's needed again, but not sure it's gonna....Osh has been here what 9 yrs now?....no reason for these almost rookie type errors and omissions....That excuse no longer will fly

 

Edited September 19, 20232 yr by Booch

This bye came at a good time.  I'm on vacation for the next 2 weekends.  Will be on a cruise ship off the Mexican west coast.  Hoping to pick up the next game on satellite or hopefully it'll be on at the sports bar.

 

51 minutes ago, BaconNBigBlue said:

This bye came at a good time.  I'm on vacation for the next 2 weekends.  Will be on a cruise ship off the Mexican west coast.  Hoping to pick up the next game on satellite or hopefully it'll be on at the sports bar.

 

You'll need to try to stream the game. It's not on CBS SN.

23 hours ago, BigBlue said:

My point was simply that coaching & support  sstaff should be taken out of the players salary cap

 

The Coaches & salary cap is not part of the Players cap. They're separate.

2 hours ago, BigBlue said:

LEADERSHIP

there has been much discussion about the best head coaches of all time making personnel decisions with their aging all-stars

perhaps the quickest road to high skill levels comes from having an excellent mentor… The mentor apprentice conducted by a true professional model teaches things that take years of experimenting for rookies and sophomores to learn

what is vital to leadership is something called "succession planning"… It applies to football as much as it does to business

in 2024 & 2025 we are going to have to make some decisions (gradually hopefully) on the following players

Jeff Jeffcoat

Adam Bighill

Brandon Alexander

Winston Rose

Willie Jefferson

Stanley Bryant

Jamarius Hardrick

Patrick Neufeld

Zach Collaros

that is nine players on the leeward side of their careers... Still all-stars but for how long?

If we could do a couple this year heading into the playoffs, and three in spring Of 24 and the rest in the spring of 25, we have a decent shot at continuing to be champions

I have been a devoted bomber fan since 1961. In that time I have seen several dynasties including the one we are in. Most of them made the same mistake in not planning to grow new all-stars. The years of drought that followed as management panicked were appalling. Turnarounds at that point where well-nigh impossible.

What O'Shea built here with Walters has been amazing. However, O'Shea is a relatively young head coach. Like my first successful business I thought it would last forever, until it didn't. 

Somebody needs to give MOS some mentoring on renewal. As the posters have said above we could do that now by getting some of the taxi squad onto the field. We do not have to wait for next man up. Injured players are not great mentors.

May the dynasty continue!

 

This isn't just on MOS. It's also on Walters & to a lesser extent Wade Miller. Teams don't hire mentors. The GMs have to work with the HC's unless they have both jobs then that presents a whole myriad of problems unto itself. no one is there for advice when it's needed. Look at the issues Dave Dickenson is having in Calgary this season. He doesn't have the steady hand of John Hufnagel around to guide him anymore. He's it. What he says goes. That is what this stupid Admin cap does. Good people are let go who shouldn't be. Or titles are merged or experienced older coaches & managers leave.