Week 12 - Stumps @ Back-To-Back Grey Cup Champions - GDT

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

Nope. It was bewildering. They didn't understand it either. 

 

I wonder if the Command Centre had the ability to step in and overturn? That seemed like the most egregious screw up last night for the refs. And, there were many, many blown calls. The reffing is just so poor in this league. 

We could have challenged it but didn't. Not sure why?

[bearpants]

5 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Don't blame the refs, they were mostly on our side.

The RTP was called the way it has been for the last couple of years. Hit the QB in the head or shoulders, get a penalty. It doesn't matter if he made contact with the ball. That's a punting rule. It doesn't matter if he was in the air. That isn't in the rule book. What matters is that he hit the QB in the shoulders. The Refs got that one right IMO.

They got the quick whistle wrong tho. That gave us the ball back and 3 points we didn't deserve. As we won by 2, it was one of the most important plays of the game.

I agree with Matty. The Refs also got the illegal block on the 3rd down wrong. It was a game changing, chintzy call on a 3rd down. Instead of first down Calgary, we got the ball back to drain the clock. 

That being said, what a great game. Back and forth. Lots of lead changes. Two good teams battling to the last minute. What more can a fan ask for?

Is that the rule?? I thought it was head or neck... don't the guys wear shoulder pads for a reason?

[Saidin]

Article 3 — Grade 2 Unnecessary Roughness

Roughing the Passer
Delivering a direct blow to the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet when the offender has a clear view to the passer and there are no mitigating circumstances.

 

 

Don't see anything talking about Shoulders.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Saidin

[TBURGESS]

Ooops

Edited August 26, 2022 by TBURGESS

[Saidin]

Hey wanna make one point.  Are we upset we gave two singles on those punts because we didn't have our returner back there?  

So i guess the entire upper torso is the neck area now.  

[TBURGESS]

Just now, Saidin said:

Hey wanna make one point.  Are we upset we gave two singles on those punts because we didn't have our returner back there?  

Not me. Giving up the singles to get the 40 yard line was the right move IMO.

[Saidin]

So I guess the upper torso is the 'neck area' now...

[GCn20]

13 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Don't blame the refs, they were mostly on our side.

The RTP was called the way it has been for the last couple of years. Hit the QB in the head or shoulders, get a penalty. It doesn't matter if he made contact with the ball. That's a punting rule. It doesn't matter if he was in the air. That isn't in the rule book. What matters is that he hit the QB in the shoulders. The Refs got that one right IMO.

They got the quick whistle wrong tho. That gave us the ball back and 3 points we didn't deserve. As we won by 2, it was one of the most important plays of the game.

I agree with Matty. The Refs also got the illegal block on the 3rd down wrong. It was a game changing, chintzy call on a 3rd down. Instead of first down Calgary, we got the ball back to drain the clock. 

That being said, what a great game. Back and forth. Lots of lead changes. Two good teams battling to the last minute. What more can a fan ask for?

There is absolutely no rule in the CFL rule book, past or present, that penalizes a player for hitting a QB in the shoulders. I challenge you to find even one instance of a CFL ref calling that except in error. There is absolutely no way on god's green earth the refs got that one right. You are out to lunch on your take even by your normal bad take standards.

7 minutes ago, bearpants said:

Is that the rule?? I thought it was head or neck... don't the guys wear shoulder pads for a reason?

TB is absolutely 100% wrong on that. 

3 minutes ago, Saidin said:

So I guess the upper torso is the 'neck area' now...

It was just a bad call, probably looked different from the refs angle. The bigger crime was that command centre, or an O'Shea challenge, didn't overturn it. However, I do believe it was being ruled an incomplete pass so that may have been Osh's reasoning.

Edited August 26, 2022 by GCn20

[bearpants]

7 minutes ago, Saidin said:

Article 3 — Grade 2 Unnecessary Roughness

Roughing the Passer
Delivering a direct blow to the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet when the offender has a clear view to the passer and there are no mitigating circumstances.

further to this... I did some reseacrh because I was curious: above the passers should would indicate neck or shoulders... so by rule, WJ's RTP call was garbage

Article 5 — Roughing The Passer

Because the act of passing puts the passer in a particularly vulnerable position to injury, special rules against roughing the passer apply. Once the ball is released, defensive players must avoid all unnecessary contact with the passer. A player shall be penalized for any act of Unnecessary Roughness to the passer, including but not limited to:

1. Contacting the passer in an unnecessary manner, including stuffing him to the ground, violently throwing him to the ground, and landing on him with most of the defender's weight,
2. Any blow above the passer's shoulder,
3. All rushing defenders must attempt to avoid forcibly hitting a passer in the pocket, at or below the knees, either if their path to the passer was unrestricted, or if they are coming off a blocker,
4. Attacking the passer who, after releasing the ball, is either standing still or fading backwards and is obviously out of the play and remains out of the play,
5. When the quarterback slides feet first, all unnecessary contact must be avoided. The slide must be done in a timely manner to allow the defence to avoid such contact.
6. Contacting the passer if either the initial source of contact, or primary source of contact, is the defender's helmet.

 

above the passers should would indicate neck or shoulders... so by rule, WJ's RTP call was garbage... only way it would be the right call is if it was late (it wasn't) or he hit the head (he didn't)... that probably would've been an easily winnable challenge

5 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Not me. Giving up the singles to get the 40 yard line was the right move IMO.

I was thinking/guessing that Taylor was probably directed to give up the single if it looked like he was going to be pinned within the ten yard line... O'Shea loves field position... of course, in the end it didn't matter... but it would've been frustrating if Calgary had one last shot at a FG down only 2 instead of 4.

[Geebrr]

If we don’t throw pics in the end zone this game isn’t close 

[Bigblue204]

33 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

If anything it seems like this year a lot of his deep shots are coming up short. Not sure why.

He had that issue last year as well. Collaros often throws the deep ball just a bit late.

[Bubba Zanetti]

24 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

We could have challenged it but didn't. Not sure why?

Can you challenge that in the CFL? In the NFL Roughing The Passer is not a challengeable play.

Update: No you cannot challenge roughing the passer. Roughing the passer is a judgement-call penalty, and judgement-call penalties (with the exception of pass interference in the NFL) are not reviewable. This applies to both college football and the NFL.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Bubba Zanetti

[Mark F]

58 minutes ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

Calgary’s defense is hot garbage.

shout out Buck Pierce.

1 hour ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Dave: the turkey is cold!

Craig: but it seems slightly less cold than last year. I think it is doing better!

"the hot tub is too hot!"

Edited August 26, 2022 by Mark F

[Booch]

40 minutes ago, bearpants said:

Is that the rule?? I thought it was head or neck... don't the guys wear shoulder pads for a reason?

he is either high...or just wants to cut down any thing mentioned that isnt in his narrative, as yes u CAN hit a QB in the shoulders...if that wasnt the caser half the sacks and hits on a QG would be flagged...it's any hit to the head/face ..even ever so slightly...not shoulders...was a BS call plain and simple

[Jpan85]

O’Shea said he did challenge it on the post show because based on precedent that they would not over turn it. Said they have been calling that penalty all year even if direct contact is not on the head.

[TBURGESS]

Head or neck is the rule as is any blow above the passer's shoulder. So, no it's not a black and white rule infraction. That being said, protecting the QB is one of the main concerns of the CFL and they will go outside the black and white rules to accomplish it. Precedent says they wouldn't over turn it. 

5 minutes ago, Jpan85 said:

O’Shea said he did challenge it on the post show because based on precedent that they would not over turn it. Said they have been calling that penalty all year even if direct contact is not on the head.

 

[Brandon]

I also found the announcers throughout the year have kept talking great about the Calgary secondary for being big... I think they have one of the worst secondaries in the league and are terrible at tackling.       Hopefully in the play offs when we play them again ,  we look for more Schoen throughout the game.  

[Booch]

Cgy schemed to limit Schoen....so as a good team we exploted them with Demski and Mcrae and a strong ground game....pick yer poison

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, Saidin said:

Hey wanna make one point.  Are we upset we gave two singles on those punts because we didn't have our returner back there?  

So i guess the entire upper torso is the neck area now.  

I didn’t like it at all especially the last one. But I get it. Taylor is not a return guy and returning punts is really hard. He was just being conservative and protecting the ball. That said he shouldn’t have been put in that position. 
 

3 minutes ago, Booch said:

Cgy schemed to limit Schoen....so as a good team we exploted them with Demski and Mcrae and a strong ground game....pick yer poison

At this point when the wr core is healthy defenses won’t be able to cheat to any one. Ellingson woli demski schoen and mcrae on passing downs is nuts. 

[Arnold_Palmer]

48 minutes ago, Booch said:

Cgy schemed to limit Schoen....so as a good team we exploted them with Demski and Mcrae and a strong ground game....pick yer poison

Yeah having a healthy Demski makes a world of a difference. Having two YAC guys like Demski and McRae in your offense made Zach’s job that much easier out there. 

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

he is either high...or just wants to cut down any thing mentioned that isnt in his narrative, as yes u CAN hit a QB in the shoulders...if that wasnt the caser half the sacks and hits on a QG would be flagged...it's any hit to the head/face ..even ever so slightly...not shoulders...was a BS call plain and simple

If you couldn't hit a QB in the shoulders, there would almost be nowhere left to hit.

[Bigblue204]

2 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

Don't blame the refs, they were mostly on our side.

The RTP was called the way it has been for the last couple of years. Hit the QB in the head or shoulders, get a penalty. It doesn't matter if he made contact with the ball. That's a punting rule. It doesn't matter if he was in the air. That isn't in the rule book. What matters is that he hit the QB in the shoulders. The Refs got that one right IMO.

They got the quick whistle wrong tho. That gave us the ball back and 3 points we didn't deserve. As we won by 2, it was one of the most important plays of the game.

I agree with Matty. The Refs also got the illegal block on the 3rd down wrong. It was a game changing, chintzy call on a 3rd down. Instead of first down Calgary, we got the ball back to drain the clock. 

That being said, what a great game. Back and forth. Lots of lead changes. Two good teams battling to the last minute. What more can a fan ask for?

we also killed the clock in field goal range. Those 3 points aren't as important as some (mostly cgy and or crider fans) are making them out to be.

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

Can you challenge that in the CFL? In the NFL Roughing The Passer is not a challengeable play.

Update: No you cannot challenge roughing the passer. Roughing the passer is a judgement-call penalty, and judgement-call penalties (with the exception of pass interference in the NFL) are not reviewable. This applies to both college football and the NFL.

You can challenge roughing the passer, both for or against, in the CFL.

[Booch]

all these injuries we have had both sides of the ball is actually a blessing as its allowed the next guy up to get valuable reps/experience, and we will know what they have to offer late in season and into playoffs if need be.

Just looking forward a bit, we are gonna have Couture, and BA back....Ellingson and Thompson and Grant as for sure things...Likely BOLO too....I not gonna be surprised to see Wilson back as well as he has looked no worse for wear last few times I've seen him on sidelines and didnt have surgery...so his return window should be this yr, and they never once said season ending...just out for a while....and u can bet 100% Walters will pull an NFL returnee out of his hat somewhere....whether its one of our guys...or someone elses player who left for a chance and signs here to have best chance to win...so we will be sitting pretty come oct/nov

[Pete Catan's Ghost]

2 hours ago, Stickem said:

That call on roughing the qb. was just unadulterated bullshit...It wasn't even remotely roughing BUT beyond that why the hell didn't O'Shea challenge that obvious boner by the refs.....Jeebus that could have cost us big time but in the end talent prevailed over bulldung...but c'mon Mike get that bloody challenge flag to hell out of your pocket...I was just fuming about that lack of challenge

On the postgame show Osh said he considered the flag but said any contact to the QB’s shoulders and up rarely if ever gets overturned. His words.