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3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I have some bad news for you.....

Progressive conservatives are dead in this country. Look at how resoundingly the conservative party rejected Peter McKay in the last leadership convention. That party is fully under the control of the racists and religious nuts.

The only honest to God option right now is the Liberals and that kills me to say because Trudeau is ******* clownshoes.

I could never support Trudeau. Not after the last 5 1/2 years. I have 2 alternatives. Vote Conservative or not vote at all. 

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Not quite if this belongs here, but.....                                 

Probably safer to just never bring it up again.

For me being fiscally conservative means being fiscally responsible. Keeping deficits low/nil when not in a crisis. Using science and research to fund social programming. Using deficit spending to kee

55 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I could never support Trudeau. Not after the last 5 1/2 years. I have 2 alternatives. Vote Conservative or not vote at all. 

So you'd rather vote for a party intent on taking the country backwards? I mean don't get me wrong I know all the problems with Trudeau and the Liberals but they are still a better choice than what the conservatives are offering. I have never voted liberal in my life and I don't really want to start, but the conservatives as they are now are a threat to our prosperity. Look at how well blindly voting for a conservative provincial government worked out.

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5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

So you'd rather vote for a party intent on taking the country backwards? I mean don't get me wrong I know all the problems with Trudeau and the Liberals but they are still a better choice than what the conservatives are offering. I have never voted liberal in my life and I don't really want to start, but the conservatives as they are now are a threat to our prosperity. Look at how well blindly voting for a conservative provincial government worked out.

Blindly voting for Trudeau isn't any better, I'm afraid. The past 5 years have shown that. like I said, I have 2 choices. I'd probably vote NDP if Layton was still here. He had a lot of political smarts & seemed to touch a chord with people. But I can't support that sorry pretense of a leader the NDP have now. 

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1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

What have they done that is so detrimental and what would the conservatives have done differently? 

Oh man, you live in Alberta. The Carbon Tax, then a secondary carbon tax on top of that, the tanker moratorium & making it economically unfeasible for Energy East. They funded the Trans Mountain pipeline but that'll be the last project. O & G accounts for 15-20% of the Canadian economy so in a recession the revenues are needed across the country to help fund social programs.  The only other way to raise that kind of revenue are through higher taxes.

2 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

 

So, the only vote not wasted is a Liberal vote? Okay, sure. 

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42 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Oh man, you live in Alberta. The Carbon Tax, then a secondary carbon tax on top of that, the tanker moratorium & making it economically unfeasible for Energy East. They funded the Trans Mountain pipeline but that'll be the last project. O & G accounts for 15-20% of the Canadian economy so in a recession the revenues are needed across the country to help fund social programs.  The only other way to raise that kind of revenue are through higher taxes.

So, the only vote not wasted is a Liberal vote? Okay, sure. 

The only wasted vote is the one not cast. Anyone who can’t be bothered to vote has no business complaining about the ruling party. Or get into politics oneself if the existing options are unpalatable. 

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1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Oh man, you live in Alberta. The Carbon Tax, then a secondary carbon tax on top of that, the tanker moratorium & making it economically unfeasible for Energy East. They funded the Trans Mountain pipeline but that'll be the last project. O & G accounts for 15-20% of the Canadian economy so in a recession the revenues are needed across the country to help fund social programs.  The only other way to raise that kind of revenue are through higher taxes.

So, the only vote not wasted is a Liberal vote? Okay, sure. 

No I am not talking about wasting votes. I am talking about voting for rhetoric and ending up worse. You know, like when you all voted for the UCP because of how awful the NDP were supposedly. How'd that work out? We had a carbon tax here already, trudeaus would have been nothing if we had kept our own. But no, conservative politicians made that a battle for some reason. I am not sold on their effectiveness, but they are a reality. Just another consumption tax. 

Again I will point to the UCP. How did they work out with their empty promises to get the price of oil higher? One more tax cut we will all be back to work right? Hey you know who else didn't get any pipelines built? Stephen Harper. Energy east wasn't going to fix anything and the world is moving towards a lesser dependence on oil so trying to pretend that is the answer long term is putting all your eggs in one basket that is full of holes. The conservatives are oil oil oil, the NDP are no oil, the only party that actually talks about oil, but we need to prepare for the future are the Liberals. And I ******* hate the arrogance and entitlement of the liberals. But the current conservative party are no different that the UCp and Republicans who want to pillage everything and burn it all to the ground. 

There is no wasted vote, but if you think this bunch of conservatives will make anything better you have rocks in your head.

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2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

No I am not talking about wasting votes. I am talking about voting for rhetoric and ending up worse. You know, like when you all voted for the UCP because of how awful the NDP were supposedly. How'd that work out? We had a carbon tax here already, trudeaus would have been nothing if we had kept our own. But no, conservative politicians made that a battle for some reason. I am not sold on their effectiveness, but they are a reality. Just another consumption tax. 

Again I will point to the UCP. How did they work out with their empty promises to get the price of oil higher? One more tax cut we will all be back to work right? Hey you know who else didn't get any pipelines built? Stephen Harper. Energy east wasn't going to fix anything and the world is moving towards a lesser dependence on oil so trying to pretend that is the answer long term is putting all your eggs in one basket that is full of holes. The conservatives are oil oil oil, the NDP are no oil, the only party that actually talks about oil, but we need to prepare for the future are the Liberals. And I ******* hate the arrogance and entitlement of the liberals. But the current conservative party are no different that the UCp and Republicans who want to pillage everything and burn it all to the ground. 

There is no wasted vote, but if you think this bunch of conservatives will make anything better you have rocks in your head.

Energy East would have made our country oil independent. If Line 5 is shut down in Michigan starting in May there will be oil shortages in Ontario & Quebec. The world will not be less dependent on oil for another half century.  You just watch the erosion of our social programs in the years to come thanks to Trudeau. 

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1 minute ago, Noeller said:

Carbon Tax is not the boogey man people think it is. Honestly it's going to be commonplace for years in every country. 

I would not be against a carbon tax if it remained the same or was adjusted occasionally. Put the revenues towards green technology research.  I have no problem with that but to have it continually rise to where it hurts Canadians  is just wrong. We live in a country with vast distances between cities & where winter temperatures are routinely minus 25 to minus 35 for weeks at a time. Yet we will be severely penalized. People on fixed  or low incomes will be hurt the most. Yeah, I get the move away from the internal combustion engine to electric vehicles but to me, what Trudeau is doing is just wrong. 

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49 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Energy East would have made our country oil independent. If Line 5 is shut down in Michigan starting in May there will be oil shortages in Ontario & Quebec. The world will not be less dependent on oil for another half century.  You just watch the erosion of our social programs in the years to come thanks to Trudeau. 

I believe this has been pointed out before. Oil is cheap enough for Ontario & Quebec to source it elsewhere, should Line 5 get shut down. 

52 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You just watch the erosion of our social programs in the years to come thanks to Trudeau. 

If we're counting on oil to pay for them - that ship sailed quite a while ago.  

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1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

I believe this has been pointed out before. Oil is cheap enough for Ontario & Quebec to source it elsewhere, should Line 5 get shut down. 

If we're counting on oil to pay for them - that ship sailed quite a while ago.  

Sure be dependent on foreign countries for oil just like we are for vaccines. Great public policy for Canada. Let two bit politicians in the US affect millions in Eastern Canada or hostile foreign governments.

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

I believe this has been pointed out before. Oil is cheap enough for Ontario & Quebec to source it elsewhere, should Line 5 get shut down. 

If we're counting on oil to pay for them - that ship sailed quite a while ago.  

Has it? How so?

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11 hours ago, Noeller said:

Carbon Tax is not the boogey man people think it is. Honestly it's going to be commonplace for years in every country. 

I wouldn't have a problem with it so long as every penny was used to invest in alternative energy. 

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15 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Energy East would have made our country oil independent.

Well, this statement is BS. Canada doesn't have the infrastructure to be "oil independent" regardless of where the product goes. (this is not dissimilar to Canada's current vaccine dilemma, either)

And before you piss and moan about Trudeau singlehandedly destroying Alberta's petroleum and gas industry again, rewind to 2014. That's when oil prices worldwide began to decline markedly and Alberta wasn't immune to that. This was roughly a year before Trudeau became PM.

https://bta.ca/global-collapse-of-oil-prices/

Western Canada Select Oil Prices, Feb 2014 to Feb 2019

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/in-alberta-anxiety-grows-over-declining-oil-prices/article21122662/

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/alberta/low-oil-prices-will-punch-huge-hole-in-alberta-budget-prentice-says/article22015643/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/alberta-and-the-oil-crash-1-year-later-1.3126945

 

Edited by blue_gold_84
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Carbon Tax isn't just about getting more tax dollars in the coffers, it's also about encouraging new (better?) habits like buying locally sourced materials and products, paying more for craftsmanship that lasts rather than relying on cheap/disposable crap (whether that's clothing, furniture, electronics, vehicles, construction, whatever...)

There is a human cost involved in having same-day delivery, $1.79 cheeseburgers, and a new cell phone every 2 years. There are plenty of social issues that could be helped with the money a carbon tax would collect.

I don't enjoy paying more in tax, but then again I'm not a big consumer and I believe we don't pay the real cost for things anyhow. The Value of Nothing by Raj Patel talks about this. Does it make sense that bananas from South America are $0.79 a pound? Imagine if everyone involved in getting a piping hot disposable cup of coffee into our hands every morning, starting with the bean farmer all the way to the fast food employee, lived relatively as good a life as the person drinking it... coffee would be a thousand dollars a cup! I'm not so naive as to think that could ever happen, and I suppose that makes me lucky because I sure do love coffee, cheeseburgers and bananas.

My point being that funding research into an alternative fuel so that we can continue to exploit and consume at our current rates shouldn't be the ultimate goal. Maybe consuming less and being smarter with dwindling resources should be the objective.

 

 

Like and Subscribe for more ramblings from a middle aged hippy 😛

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On 2021-03-12 at 10:14 PM, Mark H. said:

A Liberal wouldn't stand a chance in the South - East Bible Belt.  They could run a platypus down there - as long as they painted it blue. 

Let me tell you about the candidates that ran in my Provincal  riding. But first I got rearranged  and am now in Turtle Mountain. I'm 40 minutes from Morden/ Winkler. I am there at least once a week. .... My current MLA. has his office in Virden. About a 3 hour drive away or a 6 hour round trip. 2x as far as I am from Winnipeg.

But back to my candidates.  The Pcs are going to win here no doubt but the NDP candidate was a young women who lives in Winnipeg. Born and raised in Eastern Manitoba. I never saw her. No phone call. No meetings. No one came to coffee shops to talk. Nothing. A local small town paper contacted ALL the candidate's but only the Pcs and Green responded to give a bio and get some FREE advertising. At one point I promised myself that I'd vote for the 1st candidate that asked for my vote.  So apparently the NDP a party that started out as a farmers party doesn't believe there is one person in the riding  that covers almost half the width of the province, worthy of being their candidate.

I'll  add in, I'm the voter opposition parties want . I've voted PC, Liberal and NDP in the past.  

It's alright to complain that these rural ridings that could run a poorly trained seal and still go PC  but that will never change till the other parties at least try.

 

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48 minutes ago, the watcher said:

It's alright to complain that these rural ridings that could run a poorly trained seal and still go PC  but that will never change till the other parties at least try.

 

same thing in the R.M. of Springfield. mainly rural , and south eastern, only contact from the NDP was asking for money. otherwise, nothing, not even a yard sign.

Edited by Mark F
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1 hour ago, the watcher said:

Let me tell you about the candidates that ran in my Provincal  riding. But first I got rearranged  and am now in Turtle Mountain. I'm 40 minutes from Morden/ Winkler. I am there at least once a week. .... My current MLA. has his office in Virden. About a 3 hour drive away or a 6 hour round trip. 2x as far as I am from Winnipeg.

But back to my candidates.  The Pcs are going to win here no doubt but the NDP candidate was a young women who lives in Winnipeg. Born and raised in Eastern Manitoba. I never saw her. No phone call. No meetings. No one came to coffee shops to talk. Nothing. A local small town paper contacted ALL the candidate's but only the Pcs and Green responded to give a bio and get some FREE advertising. At one point I promised myself that I'd vote for the 1st candidate that asked for my vote.  So apparently the NDP a party that started out as a farmers party doesn't believe there is one person in the riding  that covers almost half the width of the province, worthy of being their candidate.

I'll  add in, I'm the voter opposition parties want . I've voted PC, Liberal and NDP in the past.  

It's alright to complain that these rural ridings that could run a poorly trained seal and still go PC  but that will never change till the other parties at least try.

 

You're always in a no win situation when you run a candidate in a place that you know is not going to get you a seat. How much money do you spend on that seat? Often, they'll keep their money in a more competitive riding. 

 

My MLA doesn't live in my riding and has never knocked on my door. There is little risk of him losing. 

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1 minute ago, JCon said:

You're always in a no win situation when you run a candidate in a place that you know is not going to get you a seat. How much money do you spend on that seat? Often, they'll keep their money in a more competitive riding. 

 

My MLA doesn't live in my riding and has never knocked on my door. There is little risk of him losing. 

When the NDP had their surprise win in 2015 here in Alberta, they ran candidates in every riding. These candidates were low quality. Like 20 year old university students who never had jobs, activists & others. Very few high profile candidates because the party thought they would lose. But surprise, they won. Some of the winning candidates didn't even campaign. The voters just said no more PC's & threw them out. Most of these NDP candidates became lousy MLA's & left politics & never ran again in 2019 when the UCP won. Some of them were horrified they won as all they did was put their name on a piece of paper as an NDP candidate thinking they'd lose. Or they were voted out. It was certainly a reactionary vote. 

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