rebusrankin Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 Are the players willing to help cover losses? Stadium debt? Isn't that what a partner does? Jaxon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 Interesting read from Drew Edwards here http://scratchingpost.thespec.com/2014/05/cflpa-gave-away-the-thing-they-want-most-revenue-sharing.html The players deserve more, no question, and more than the league is currently offering. But one gets the sense that the players want revenue sharing because they think they should have revenue sharing — without considering the consequences of that stance or whether it's even necessary. The CFLPA decided during the last CBA negotiations to take guaranteed increases in the cap over the risk of revenue sharing. Now that there's no risk, they want it back. Beyond the sheer audacity of it, it's also unnecessary: determine the projected revenue, ask for a generous percentage, settle for something slightly less. The CFLPA also needs to develop a coherent media strategy, and fast. They angered the league by leaking every last detail of the league's offer to the media, then got caught flat-footed when the commissioner Mark Cohon responded by halting negotiations and taking the PR war public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 So the PA wants to give the Bombers and Als etc advice on how better to manage their business? lol The Bombers can make their debt payments, run their team AND give the players a bunch of new money. How about the teams should be able to profit? Maybe the PA should buy the Argos if its so easy to run a profitable franchise. Then they can pay their players whatever they want. Its always "partnership" talk when the players want to dig into the owner's pockets. But it's "bad marketing" when the team doesnt make enough to pay the players more. Jaxon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair GM Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 So the PA wants to give the Bombers and Als etc advice on how better to manage their business? lol The Bombers can make their debt payments, run their team AND give the players a bunch of new money. How about the teams should be able to profit? Maybe the PA should buy the Argos if its so easy to run a profitable franchise. Then they can pay their players whatever they want. Its always "partnership" talk when the players want to dig into the owner's pockets. But it's "bad marketing" when the team doesnt make enough to pay the players more. If what the players are trying to sell us is that they want a partnership, then it's perfectly reasonable for them to do everything they can to help the CFL's teams make more money. It's fully aligned with a revenue-linked cap, and revenue sharing too... Want an interesting cap linkage discussion? Link it to cash flow after debt service. In other words, pay the players AFTER the teams pay their mortgage payments. We'll see if the players really believe the league is so profitable that it can pay them $7MM and force revenue sharing on the teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 That "statement of facts" the CFLPA released solidifies just how amateur the PA really is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dee Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 The CFLPA and their members are very quickly losing ground in this negotiation, and are now getting questioned on many fronts. The strategy of using players to do interviews and yap on social media was not a good idea. They better have a good back out strategy and use it quickly to get more gains than what's been offered so far…it's too late for more posturing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 That "statement of facts" the CFLPA released solidifies just how amateur the PA really is.... It's truly amazing. It's like they think the fans are completely unfamiliar with the CFL. Every time Flory speaks he pushes my loyalty further towards the owners. We need to keep in mind that firing coaches and management costs the Bombers money? Gee, thanks Flory. So you're suggesting that we should still have Kelly around? Go shove a pineapple up your arse. That does it. I honestly truly wanted the players to reap some benefits this time around but I'm done with them. Flory is an imbecile. For all I care they can continue to play under the exact same terms as the old CBA. Screw their raise. Flory can stop insulting our intelligence. He can stop trying to carefully shape crap into facts because he's terrible at it. All he ever needed to say is that many of the players are underpaid for the jobs they do because that's true. That might be the only true thing that's come out of his mouth in the last month. Jackass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.O.A.B. Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 I believe Flory is from Saskatchewan, obviously he is not good on numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 That "statement of facts" the CFLPA released solidifies just how amateur the PA really is.... It's truly amazing. It's like they think the fans are completely unfamiliar with the CFL. Every time Flory speaks he pushes my loyalty further towards the owners. We need to keep in mind that firing coaches and management costs the Bombers money? Gee, thanks Flory. So you're suggesting that we should still have Kelly around? Go shove a pineapple up your arse. That does it. I honestly truly wanted the players to reap some benefits this time around but I'm done with them. Flory is an imbecile. For all I care they can continue to play under the exact same terms as the old CBA. Screw their raise. Flory can stop insulting our intelligence. He can stop trying to carefully shape crap into facts because he's terrible at it. All he ever needed to say is that many of the players are underpaid for the jobs they do because that's true. That might be the only true thing that's come out of his mouth in the last month. Jackass. I don't think I've grown quite as sour as you... yet.... but I do believe the players deserve a raise... maybe something along the lines of the very fair deal the CFL offered when they went public last week... a bigger initial bump in the cap would be ok too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 It seems the players want revenue sharing because they see their big brother sports getting revenue sharing so they think they should have it. And the fact they chose to de-link salaries from revenue when they thought it would benefit them and now want to re-link it because it will benefit them...thats just ridiculous. Im sure every other sports' PA would have told them during the last negotiations "dont de-link". I hope the CFL stands firm. If there is a hill to die on, it should be giving the PA the linkage they want. Dont give that back. The other sports are cash cows and even then, the linkage was a hinderance because it assumed an average revenue across the board when in fact, a minority of teams spiked the revenue up to an extent that the have-not teams had trouble with the percentage split (we see that in the NHL where some teams cant afford to get to the salary floor, let alone the cap). In the big sports, they can afford to get away with it or do team revenue sharing. We cant do that in the CFL. We could easily have teams on the brink if that was the case. For the CFL, a concrete salary cap makes more sense. And before this new TV deal, it made sense for the players too. Now they want their cake and to eat it too. Too bad. I also find it difficult to believe the PA can be this stupid. I realise it's a budget group but is there no players who took communications, labour relations, business admin etc in school who could be providing some advice? Did they not look at the other sports and see how those PA's handled the media, public and it's policy of communications as far as the players were concerned? Do some homework. mbrg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 That "statement of facts" the CFLPA released solidifies just how amateur the PA really is.... It's truly amazing. It's like they think the fans are completely unfamiliar with the CFL. Every time Flory speaks he pushes my loyalty further towards the owners. We need to keep in mind that firing coaches and management costs the Bombers money? Gee, thanks Flory. So you're suggesting that we should still have Kelly around? Go shove a pineapple up your arse. That does it. I honestly truly wanted the players to reap some benefits this time around but I'm done with them. Flory is an imbecile. For all I care they can continue to play under the exact same terms as the old CBA. Screw their raise. Flory can stop insulting our intelligence. He can stop trying to carefully shape crap into facts because he's terrible at it. All he ever needed to say is that many of the players are underpaid for the jobs they do because that's true. That might be the only true thing that's come out of his mouth in the last month. Jackass. I don't think I've grown quite as sour as you... yet.... but I do believe the players deserve a raise... maybe something along the lines of the very fair deal the CFL offered when they went public last week... a bigger initial bump in the cap would be ok too. I agree. And the thing is, since the CFL made that offer, they clearly assumed the PA would then counter it and they'd meet somewhere in the middle. It wasnt presented as a take it or leave it. So as reasonable as the offer was, the league was still willing to move a bit. The reason we dont have a deal right now is because of the PA. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 That "statement of facts" the CFLPA released solidifies just how amateur the PA really is.... It's truly amazing. It's like they think the fans are completely unfamiliar with the CFL. Every time Flory speaks he pushes my loyalty further towards the owners. We need to keep in mind that firing coaches and management costs the Bombers money? Gee, thanks Flory. So you're suggesting that we should still have Kelly around? Go shove a pineapple up your arse. That does it. I honestly truly wanted the players to reap some benefits this time around but I'm done with them. Flory is an imbecile. For all I care they can continue to play under the exact same terms as the old CBA. Screw their raise. Flory can stop insulting our intelligence. He can stop trying to carefully shape crap into facts because he's terrible at it. All he ever needed to say is that many of the players are underpaid for the jobs they do because that's true. That might be the only true thing that's come out of his mouth in the last month. Jackass. I don't think I've grown quite as sour as you... yet.... but I do believe the players deserve a raise... maybe something along the lines of the very fair deal the CFL offered when they went public last week... a bigger initial bump in the cap would be ok too. I agree. And the thing is, since the CFL made that offer, they clearly assumed the PA would then counter it and they'd meet somewhere in the middle. It wasnt presented as a take it or leave it. So as reasonable as the offer was, the league was still willing to move a bit. The reason we dont have a deal right now is because of the PA. Period. That's where they will get to, the last offer from the owners + 5% or so. It won't happen until the last minute because there is no real incentive for either party to resolve this until the last minute. I really do support the players in the sense that most of them are great guys who live in our community, do lots of charitable work, are down to earth people who take a lot of physical punishment purely for our entertainment. I think anyone making the CFL minumum deserves more for what they do and everyone who isn't making 6 digits deserves some kind of bump. BUT the CFLPA has done such a horrible job of presenting it's case and such a fantastic job of shooting itself in the foot and then shoving their bloody footstump in their mouths at every opportunity that I'm entirely done with them. The first 15 million of the Bomber debt is interest free?? Well go ahead and cover it then Flory if you're so convinced it's chump change. Jackass. It was so simple. Demonstrate an awareness that this league has a fragility to it. Demonstrate an awareness of it's history. Demonstrate an appreciation for the fans who haven't been passive sports viewers but have been actively trying to keep these teams alive for decades. Demonstrate a simple awareness that certain owners have eaten losses in the millions for years and years purely for the love of the game. And continue to point out that there are players who deserve more than what they get for the services they provide. Point out that the league is now in a position to pay a fairer wage for those players. They have done almost none of this. Twitter wars? Jackass. I'm now thinking of joining twitter just so I can put out #floryisterribleathisjob every few minutes. The players will need to send a bouquet of apology flowers to Morreale when this is all done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 It seems the players want revenue sharing because they see their big brother sports getting revenue sharing so they think they should have it. And the fact they chose to de-link salaries from revenue when they thought it would benefit them and now want to re-link it because it will benefit them...thats just ridiculous. Im sure every other sports' PA would have told them during the last negotiations "dont de-link". I hope the CFL stands firm. If there is a hill to die on, it should be giving the PA the linkage they want. Dont give that back. The other sports are cash cows and even then, the linkage was a hinderance because it assumed an average revenue across the board when in fact, a minority of teams spiked the revenue up to an extent that the have-not teams had trouble with the percentage split (we see that in the NHL where some teams cant afford to get to the salary floor, let alone the cap). In the big sports, they can afford to get away with it or do team revenue sharing. We cant do that in the CFL. We could easily have teams on the brink if that was the case. For the CFL, a concrete salary cap makes more sense. And before this new TV deal, it made sense for the players too. Now they want their cake and to eat it too. Too bad. I also find it difficult to believe the PA can be this stupid. I realise it's a budget group but is there no players who took communications, labour relations, business admin etc in school who could be providing some advice? Did they not look at the other sports and see how those PA's handled the media, public and it's policy of communications as far as the players were concerned? Do some homework. Hmm, I have all those things - maybe I should go to work for the PA... First tip I'd have for them - in a league where you have one person propping up 2 of 9 teams and losing millions every year to do it just because he loves the CFL so much, don't try and assert that the owners are greedy. Not a believable talking point. The Unknown Poster, TBURGESS, voodoochylde and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 And how many teams are community owned? 3? So you have an 8 team league (until this season) with 3 teams owned by the "community" and 2 teams owned by the same guy who has lost money many times on this and you say the "owners" are greedy? How much has whatshisname in Hamilton lost? No owner who puts money into a CFL franchise or cummunity BOD's who work for free and contribute their time and expertise can be called greedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 I also find it difficult to believe the PA can be this stupid. I realise it's a budget group but is there no players who took communications, labour relations, business admin etc in school who could be providing some advice? Did they not look at the other sports and see how those PA's handled the media, public and it's policy of communications as far as the players were concerned? Do some homework. It was well publicized that Mike Morreale met with Dee Smith (NFLPA) and Don Fehr (NHLPA) on several occasions to get advice on how to handle this negotiation... Maybe he was kicked out for being too smart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 And how many teams are community owned? 3? So you have an 8 team league (until this season) with 3 teams owned by the "community" and 2 teams owned by the same guy who has lost money many times on this and you say the "owners" are greedy? How much has whatshisname in Hamilton lost? No owner who puts money into a CFL franchise or cummunity BOD's who work for free and contribute their time and expertise can be called greedy. Bob Young Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 Young has supposedly lost between $30-50 million. Braley stated only 2 years ago that he's pretty much made his money back on the Lions and once he sells the Lions and Argonauts, he'll be substantially ahead. Just read an article yesterday that brought up how the Alouettes were only bringing in between $12-14 million in revenue 2-3 years ago....... sad if true. The Players deserve more and a lot more than a 10% increase IMO, 35% of the revenue doesn't sound too bad. I wonder what the magic number would be for the league, because obviously the owners deserve to make money as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR. CFL Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 Braley has made money solely on hosting Grey cup games in Toronto and Vancouver not based on attendance in those cities for regular season games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbill2004 Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 @garylawless: Have learned from #cfl that commissioner Mark Cohon will sit in on Wednesday's labour talks with #CFLPA. #bn Noeller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted May 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 Cohon apparently very anxious to get this thing going in the right direction, so we'll see if he can at least keep them in the same room together for a period of time. That would be a good start... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 Whatever the last day is before the schedule would be affected - that is the day the labour dispute will be resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-F-F-C Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 Interesting day for the Riders to release their financial results. Report over $10 million in profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 The Riders are going to be awash in cash once they open that new building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpan85 Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 Arash Madani @ArashMadani 6m From a source close to today's #CFL and CFLPA meetings: "Going better than expected and making progress." But nothing of real substance yet. Noeller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 things can change but i'm hearing #cfl, #cflpa talks are not ending soon today. progress? not sure. but u need to talk to make a deal — gary lawless (@garylawless) May 28, 2014 word is #cfl in one room working on a proposal or a response while #cflpa are in another doing same. will join up later. could go late — gary lawless (@garylawless) May 28, 2014 Noeller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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