Nichols v strevler and the hole in our offense.

[wbbfan]

Wanted to do this comparison when the time/reps got close to even. this is not about a QB controversy, rather its about gaps in our offense. Particularly with play calling and player usage. 

streveler 57/91 62.6% 615 yards 6td 2 ints 6.8 avg 33 rushes 230 yards 4 tds

nichols  52/84  61.9% 621 yards 3 tds 3 ints 7.4 avg 1 rush 1 yard 1 td. 

Because nichols missed time and came back and had to fight off rust against teams a few weeks into the season Im gonna throw in the first 3 of his games from last year.

70/112 62.5%  826 5 tds 3 ints 7.35 17 rushing yards. 

Of course also worth noting is that harris is tearing it up. 610 rushing yards 5 tds 6.43 average + 100 yards receiving and 2 more td This time last year harris had 283 rushing yards and 4 rushing tds 317 receiving and 0 tds through the air. he hadnt had 100 yards rushing at this point last year in one game. hes flirted with it twice at half time this year alone. 

Last year we saw great success with mixing in flanders. Even though his direct touches were rather limited. He was used mainly as a gimmicky distraction due to weak imp wr talent. This year we have great talent at wr. 

The hole, as I see it is the loss of the flanders sets. We made up for it early with strevelers running ability. Which in it self is really hard to game plan for. We have made up for it a bit with demski, but with nichols back the final piece to our offense is that extra dimension. Our possession passing offense stretches the field more side line to side line then down field. Though we do well when we stretch the field because the defense is spread thin. What we really seem to need on offense to keep the performance consistent, rather then feast or famine is that extra dimension. Expanding on the bowman thread, I think the next step for our offense is to bench bowman and make far greater use of two backs. Flanders if healthy, lafrance if not. 

If the D can key on harris, our offense sputters mightily. The only game this year where harris had a great game (100 yards +) and we lost was the second bc game, a game we were routing but frequent un characteristic and freak mistakes and miss calls tossed away. 

[Adrenaline_x]

Sorry.  Too busy following the Manziel train

[BigBlue]

replace bowman with streveler ... lol

 

[trueBlue83]

look at Nichols numbers in the first half of last season VS the second half of last season..... it takes a dive once teams have his tendencies figured out.

He had 6 games over 300 yds last year, 4 of which were in the first half of the season.   He's effective when the run game is rocking and he can dump it off, but if we get down and have to move the ball downfield quickly, he is ineffective, plain & simple.

I was curious, so I looked up the numbers after the BC game last week:

Date	Opponent	Passing c/a	Yds	TD's	INTs	Final Score	Notes
July 1st	SK	23/36	331	4	1	43 - 40 WPG
July 7th	CGY	27/40	267	1	2	29 - 10 CGY
July 13th	TOR	20/36	228	0	0	33 - 25 WPG	4 FGs + KR TD
July 21st	BC	28/36	254	3	1	45 - 42 BC
July 27th	MTL	34/43	358	2	0	41-40 WPG
Aug 4th	OTT	25/38	319	1	0	33 - 30 WPG	6 FGs
Aug 12th	HAM	25/35	267	2	0	39 - 12 WPG	6 FGs, Hamilton winless
Aug 17th	EDM	32/40	390	1	0	33 - 26 WPG	4 FGs
Aug 24th	MTL	26/38	227	3	1	34 - 31 WPG	4 FGs
Sept 3rd	SK	35/47	364	2	2	38 - 24 SK	Harris - 9 carries, 29 yds
Sept 9th	SK	24/37	282	3	0	48 - 28 WPG
Sept 22nd	OTT	23/33	319	2	0	29 - 9 WPG	Ottawa Rookie QB start
Sept 30th	EDM	24/32	238	2	0	28 - 19 WPG
Oct 6th	HAM	14/18	158	1	1	30 - 13 HAM	Masoli 27/33 338 2 TDs
Oct 14th	BC	23/30	172	0	0	26 - 20 WPG	3 FGs, 1 PR TD, 0 passing or rushing TDs
Oct 21st	TOR	25/33	268	1	0	29 - 28 TOR
Oct 28th	BC	3 for 7	30	0	0	36 - 27 BC	7 FGs, Nichols injured

Edited July 23, 2018 by trueBlue83

[blitzmore]

Why would anyone be complaining about Nichols at this point in time!

[NorthernSkunk]

2 hours ago, blitzmore said:

Why would anyone be complaining about Nichols at this point in time!

Maybe because they want to see Streveler play some more (?) 

[MC]

If you can't tell how much better the offense is since Nichols came back using the eyeball test, then I can't help you.

Especially after he just picked apart a very good Argos defensive backfield.

He had a bad half of football against the Lions.  Other than that, he has played very well.

[AKAChip]

6 minutes ago, MC said:

If you can't tell how much better the offense is since Nichols came back using the eyeball test, then I can't help you.

Especially after he just picked apart a very good Argos defensive backfield.

He had a bad half of football against the Lions.  Other than that, he has played very well.

The Argos defensive secondary is not good at all and their scheme is even worse. Credit to him for having a good game but let’s not go overboard. Nichols is what he is. We can win games with him without a doubt but he doesn’t win games for you like Reilly. Streveler may not amount to anything but his ceiling is far higher. And the hurry up offence with him staying in after a sneak has the potential to be extremely effective if they stick with it. 

[bearpants]

the fact that Nichols took short yardage snaps against the Argos leads me to believe that Strev may have gone rogue against the Lions... especially on the late game one where he tried to go around the end.... I saw one or two linemen pancaked on that attempt... which doesn't really make any sense if you're trying to seal the edge...

my guess is the coaching staff was saying "slow down young buck and follow the play calls... you'll be watching this game to get your head ready for the next time"... 

[Booch]

he came in for short yardage a couple times

[Brandon]

Streveler is a raw rookie...  I'd like for him to get a few series here and there and maybe some garbage time if we are beating on a team badly.   But any talk of him starting over Matt is ridiculous.

[White Out]

wbbfan and the usual crew taking their shots at Nichols, nothing new here. this utter lack of respect for our teams franchise player remains baffling. I can only guess its based on Nichols proving the Pro Willy crowd to have been delusional so they can't wait to tear this guy down. 

[Blueandgold]

Nichol's has been great despite a lackluster receiving core. We need to get a legit number two receiver to replace Bowman.

[Goalie]

Andrew Harris is our franchise player. 

[White Out]

2 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Andrew Harris is our franchise player. 

In a terrible scenario where you have to choose either Harris or Nichols being spared a season ending injury, and only one, only a total fool would spare Harris.  

 

Edited July 23, 2018 by White Out

[Firekid]

wbbfan was pointing out that a two tailback set will help the Nichols lead offence when the opposing D smothers Harris. He mentioned that with the running threat of Streveler this helped keep the opposing D on their feet and took some pressure off Harris when Streveler was leading the offense. I don't think he was pointing out that Nichols is a bad pivot, I think his point was to high-lite the fact that the Bombers offence is more effective with a two back set when Nichols is leading it. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by Firekid

[17to85]

3 hours ago, MC said:

If you can't tell how much better the offense is since Nichols came back using the eyeball test, then I can't help you.

Especially after he just picked apart a very good Argos defensive backfield.

He had a bad half of football against the Lions.  Other than that, he has played very well.

The thing Nichols does that makes the while offense better is that he is quicker at reading the defense and is better at going deep. He truly makes you have to defend the whole field where as streveler is more reliant on the underneath stuff and running himself. I love the upside of streveler, but Nichols is an experienced vet who takes the offense to a whole other level.

[Goalie]

22 minutes ago, White Out said:

In a terrible scenario where you have to choose either Harris or Nichols being spared a season ending injury, and only one, only a total fool would spare Harris.  

 

Right. Harris is our MVP whether you accept it or not... We didnt win in BC cuz Nichols couldnt complete a pass in the 2nd half or did to Lions players.. We win when Harris etc are running the ball... We lose when they ask Nichols to throw more. 

Harris is our MVP and its likely not close. 

[White Out]

5 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Right. Harris is our MVP whether you accept it or not... We didnt win in BC cuz Nichols couldnt complete a pass in the 2nd half or did to Lions players.. We win when Harris etc are running the ball... We lose when they ask Nichols to throw more. 

Harris is our MVP and its likely not close. 

Cool. Bad opinion but it's yours to offer. A quality starting qb in this league will never be less valuable than a star rb. Ever. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

3 hours ago, bearpants said:

the fact that Nichols took short yardage snaps against the Argos leads me to believe that Strev may have gone rogue against the Lions... especially on the late game one where he tried to go around the end.... I saw one or two linemen pancaked on that attempt... which doesn't really make any sense if you're trying to seal the edge...

my guess is the coaching staff was saying "slow down young buck and follow the play calls... you'll be watching this game to get your head ready for the next time"... 

He stayed out on the one on the goal-line so the Argos couldn’t sub.

[Goalie]

5 minutes ago, White Out said:

Cool. Bad opinion but it's yours to offer. A quality starting qb in this league will never be less valuable than a star rb. Ever. 

Well that star Canadian RB is beast mode this year and is on pace for a ridiculous amount of rush yards.. We lead the league in rushing... Nichols is ok.. Hes not Reilly BLM tho.. Hes not a star.. Hes a guy who generally hands the ball off to the star tho. 

[wbbfan]

57 minutes ago, Firekid said:

wbbfan was pointing out that a two tailback set will help the Nichols lead offence when the opposing D smothers Harris. He mentioned that with the running threat of Streveler this helped keep the opposing D on their feet and took some pressure off Harris when Streveler was leading the offense. I don't think he was pointing out that Nichols is a bad pivot, I think his point was to high-lite the fact that the Bombers offence is more effective with a two back set when Nichols is leading it. 

I expected some to miss the point and not go past the qb comparison, i didnt expect the majority to near entirety to do so. Way she goes i guess. Least you got it 😛 

8 hours ago, trueBlue83 said:

look at Nichols numbers in the first half of last season VS the second half of last season..... it takes a dive once teams have his tendencies figured out.

He had 6 games over 300 yds last year, 4 of which were in the first half of the season.   He's effective when the run game is rocking and he can dump it off, but if we get down and have to move the ball downfield quickly, he is ineffective, plain & simple.

I was curious, so I looked up the numbers after the BC game last week:

Date	Opponent	Passing c/a	Yds	TD's	INTs	Final Score	Notes
July 1st	SK	23/36	331	4	1	43 - 40 WPG
July 7th	CGY	27/40	267	1	2	29 - 10 CGY
July 13th	TOR	20/36	228	0	0	33 - 25 WPG	4 FGs + KR TD
July 21st	BC	28/36	254	3	1	45 - 42 BC
July 27th	MTL	34/43	358	2	0	41-40 WPG
Aug 4th	OTT	25/38	319	1	0	33 - 30 WPG	6 FGs
Aug 12th	HAM	25/35	267	2	0	39 - 12 WPG	6 FGs, Hamilton winless
Aug 17th	EDM	32/40	390	1	0	33 - 26 WPG	4 FGs
Aug 24th	MTL	26/38	227	3	1	34 - 31 WPG	4 FGs
Sept 3rd	SK	35/47	364	2	2	38 - 24 SK	Harris - 9 carries, 29 yds
Sept 9th	SK	24/37	282	3	0	48 - 28 WPG
Sept 22nd	OTT	23/33	319	2	0	29 - 9 WPG	Ottawa Rookie QB start
Sept 30th	EDM	24/32	238	2	0	28 - 19 WPG
Oct 6th	HAM	14/18	158	1	1	30 - 13 HAM	Masoli 27/33 338 2 TDs
Oct 14th	BC	23/30	172	0	0	26 - 20 WPG	3 FGs, 1 PR TD, 0 passing or rushing TDs
Oct 21st	TOR	25/33	268	1	0	29 - 28 TOR
Oct 28th	BC	3 for 7	30	0	0	36 - 27 BC	7 FGs, Nichols injured

Game to game, and half to half our offense tends to play jekyll and hyde.  A good portion of it comes from defensive adjustments to what we are doing, and the in ability to sustain such insane paces. When our offense clicks, we go no huddle and keep the plays varied the offense rolls over people in a hurry. Did some comparison splits last year its crazy. If we can use one more threat, that can move around tail back to wing to slot and allow us to motion harris around more as well we can keep up the offensive production. Also depending on plop not out thinking him self or us un characteristically shooting our selves in the foot repeatedly. 

[Stickem]

A qb. with Strevelers talent and potential do not come around often...In this town we know that quite well...He has to be played to keep him sharp and happy...I know he'll get his shot but not at the expense of Nichols and his playing time....Streve will have to be patient and wait until we have someone hanging on the ropes and on the verge of defeat to get game time...Whatever happens this kid is a valued member of the club....and any notion of letting him slip away in a trade or otherwise should be dispelled in a hurry...Diamonds don't fall into your lap very often...This kid is going to shine big time for someone and I prefer it be with us

[trueBlue83]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

The thing Nichols does that makes the while offense better is that he is quicker at reading the defense and is better at going deep. He truly makes you have to defend the whole field where as streveler is more reliant on the underneath stuff and running himself. I love the upside of streveler, but Nichols is an experienced vet who takes the offense to a whole other level.

Nichols is better when going deep??  Better than who??  You can't be serious if you think that is the strength of his game, I'm sorry!

[johnzo]

1 hour ago, Goalie said:

Well that star Canadian RB is beast mode this year and is on pace for a ridiculous amount of rush yards.. We lead the league in rushing... Nichols is ok.. Hes not Reilly BLM tho.. Hes not a star.. Hes a guy who generally hands the ball off to the star tho. 

yeah, Harris is having a great year and is definitely our MOP.

but I don't think he'd be beasting like he is if it was someone like Alex Brink handing him the ball. Having a viable passing threat makes space for Harris to do his thing.