3 turds plus cranky honker don’t say roster management edition

[17to85]

1 minute ago, rebusrankin said:

Zach and Streveler have both been bad but it's pretty clear the offense is even more limited with CS as he seems to have issues with reading a defense and can only execute 7 to 10 yard passes. 

Counter point it took nearly a full half for collaros to out pass janarion grant last game. Thenoffense is pretty ******* limited with both qbs.

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, rebusrankin said:

Zach and Streveler have both been bad but it's pretty clear the offense is even more limited with CS as he seems to have issues with reading a defense and can only execute 7 to 10 yard passes. 

I’d argue Zach is more limited. If he isn’t connecting on bombs consistently, which has only happened once this year and 2-3 times in the last year and a half, he can’t run any offence. We see his yards per attempt plummet to the depths. Atleast strevy is capable of running designed fast tempo timing stuff.  He just isn’t capable of improving if that first look isn’t good. 
 

Zach needs big guys who can dominate 50/50 tosses down field. Strevy can succeed with a wider variety of wr types. 
 

It’s a bad position though, we don’t have the pieces or the system to support either. 

[wbbfan]

4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Counter point it took nearly a full half for collaros to out pass janarion grant last game. Thenoffense is pretty ******* limited with both qbs.

Sad isn’t it. We’ve fallen to a qbing level below post injury Matt nichols. Arbuckle would be an upgrade for us. Hes had no running game and a worse ol yet still done more. 

[17to85]

I still feel it's less the qbs and more everything around them.

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

I still feel it's less the qbs and more everything around them.

That’s a large part of it for sure. And it’s much easier to fix the rest than fix qbing. I think we need to take swings at fixing each level of issue though. For atleast boosting internal competition level.

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

I still feel it's less the qbs and more everything around them.

Are the QB's making smart decisions,  putting the ball where the receiver can make the play,  and/or reading defenses at all?   

I say that is a big no (more so with Zach) so I would say the QB is the primary reason we are having issues.   This isn't a case of a QB tossing a ball and it bouncing off receivers chests because they are inept.   

[Noeller]

I'm definitely not saying any of our QBs have been great lately by any stretch, but If the pocket is always collapsing around them, it's hard to judge if they're doing well or not. 

[Brandon]

Upon watching the condensed game ,   I don't understand giving up fully on Strev.    His mobility is gone but he was able to throw short, medium,  and an innaccurate deep ball.  I don't see any issues with his arm.  I saw zip and he had a few nice short passes that were feathered into the receivers arms.  

The three ints were not awful as well.   The first int happens to every QB in the league,  it happens.  2nd int was a bit of bad luck and being only slightly off on his throw.   The 3rd was a jump ball in which if we had Carlton Agudosi at receiver it would of been a TD.    It wasn't a Zach like interception where he tosses a ball into triple coverage for no good reason at all.   I'd like to see 4 - 5 games with Strev as the starter to see what we have.  If he fails then at least we know the move on from him.     

 

 

[17to85]

11 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Upon watching the condensed game ,   I don't understand giving up fully on Strev.    His mobility is gone but he was able to throw short, medium,  and an innaccurate deep ball.  I don't see any issues with his arm.  I saw zip and he had a few nice short passes that were feathered into the receivers arms.  

The three ints were not awful as well.   The first int happens to every QB in the league,  it happens.  2nd int was a bit of bad luck and being only slightly off on his throw.   The 3rd was a jump ball in which if we had Carlton Agudosi at receiver it would of been a TD.    It wasn't a Zach like interception where he tosses a ball into triple coverage for no good reason at all.   I'd like to see 4 - 5 games with Strev as the starter to see what we have.  If he fails then at least we know the move on from him.     

 

 

That's what I'm saying, the first INT, the guy wallace was blocking got free and drifted into the throwing lane to get hands in the way. Now we praised Willie to high heavens for doing stuff like that, but if Wallace stayed on that block the INT never happens. The deep shot I hated from the get go. was off target and the receiver had no seperation anyway. felt like a total desperation throw to try and hit something deep. was it qb or the playcall? I dunno. Third one why the **** are we even throwing the ball there? run into the middle twice and kick a field goal, go up 9 with limited time left. Don't even be throwing let alone throwing a jump ball for a half foot mismatch in height. 

so yeah I maintain that the qbs are less a problem than receivers who can't make plays or get open intermediate to deep and an OL that is inconsistent. 

[GCn20]

8 hours ago, wbbfan said:

It’s a cyclical problem. We don’t recruit as well as during an all time run of talent, we ride too long with old guys soo we don’t develop the talent we do bring in, and the level of play devolves very quickly.  
 You aren’t going to have a generational talent gap very often. But you should expect a top front office to find more turn key gems. 

 

IMO, we’ve seen some tremendous talent the last 3 camps at dt, lber, wr, rb, and db. We’ve also had 2 excellent drafts in a row.  The job we’ve done in recognizing, and developing those guys while optimizing rosters is poor. The quality of job we’ve done at bringing in league vets at spots we don’t recruit well, and replacing top talent is also poor. 
 I’ll note, the wr talent the last two years has been much worse in camp. Prior to that we had some very good wr groups. 

Who is this tremendous talent at wr, dt, and lber?

Ayers maybe has the potential...Who do you got at dt and wr? I suppose Wilson but that's about it. You may like Fox and Garbutt but to call them tremendous talent is a pretty big reach. We are letting tremendous talent go out the door tho.

[GCn20]

3 hours ago, 17to85 said:

That's what I'm saying, the first INT, the guy wallace was blocking got free and drifted into the throwing lane to get hands in the way. Now we praised Willie to high heavens for doing stuff like that, but if Wallace stayed on that block the INT never happens. The deep shot I hated from the get go. was off target and the receiver had no seperation anyway. felt like a total desperation throw to try and hit something deep. was it qb or the playcall? I dunno. Third one why the **** are we even throwing the ball there? run into the middle twice and kick a field goal, go up 9 with limited time left. Don't even be throwing let alone throwing a jump ball for a half foot mismatch in height. 

so yeah I maintain that the qbs are less a problem than receivers who can't make plays or get open intermediate to deep and an OL that is inconsistent. 

Strev is not a gunslinger QB. Our gameplan needs to reflect that. He has to take his deep shots but it's got to be shots that only his receiver has a shot at.

9 hours ago, Tracker said:

Disagree to an extent. Talent in its prime can compensate for inept coaching and roster management for a time but inevitably you see what we saw for the past 2+ seasons. We yahoos in this forum saw it and commented on it but we were voices crying in the wilderness.

We were winning. Thats the bottom line in sports. Whatever the coaches were doing wrong they were doing enough right to make up for it. Now..not so much.

[JuranBoldenRules]

8 hours ago, 17to85 said:

That's what I'm saying, the first INT, the guy wallace was blocking got free and drifted into the throwing lane to get hands in the way. Now we praised Willie to high heavens for doing stuff like that, but if Wallace stayed on that block the INT never happens. The deep shot I hated from the get go. was off target and the receiver had no seperation anyway. felt like a total desperation throw to try and hit something deep. was it qb or the playcall? I dunno. Third one why the **** are we even throwing the ball there? run into the middle twice and kick a field goal, go up 9 with limited time left. Don't even be throwing let alone throwing a jump ball for a half foot mismatch in height. 

so yeah I maintain that the qbs are less a problem than receivers who can't make plays or get open intermediate to deep and an OL that is inconsistent. 

You don’t want OL chasing guys across the field.  They are making a pocket.

The issue on that first INT is Streveler staring down his first read and then IMO (others I respect who know about football disagree) the throw he made was extremely inaccurate for the guy he was targeting (Wheatfall).  IMO that ball is behind Wheatfall and short, potentially because Streveler pulls up at the end realizing he’s throwing into a pile of Argos downfield.

The first read stare down is a big part of all the sacks too.  You’re watching a QB that was one read then **** it check down to my legs.  But the legs don’t work anymore.  He isn’t a guy that can operate in the pocket at the speed of these games as a passer.

The biggest problem with Streveler in there is complete inaccuracy in that intermediate 8 yard to 20 yard range.  It’s basically a coin toss if it’ll be an INT every time.  And you can see that weighing on him.  He’s thinking and everything in the pocket is moving too slow unless he’s just throwing to a spot, which can also be dangerous for turnovers.  The velocity combined with being a catchable ball isn’t there.  And it’s way worse than Collaros.  
 

You can go to the well with the backfield motion, levels kind of plays where he has flat option, out/corner option and run option.  But run option is all but dead.  He’s not setting his feet to throw and there’s no hip rotation.  He’s throwing from his right shoulder, nothing from the core and lower body.  They are squeezing as much as they can out of him IMO.

[wbbfan]

6 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Who is this tremendous talent at wr, dt, and lber?

Ayers maybe has the potential...Who do you got at dt and wr? I suppose Wilson but that's about it. You may like Fox and Garbutt but to call them tremendous talent is a pretty big reach. We are letting tremendous talent go out the door tho.

I’m talking talent brought into camp. We had a really good wr crop but also had schoen lawler etc. lber last year was very good but also blocked this time by biggie and kyrie. Garbutt isn’t a dt. Fox has been the best inside run stopper in the league. Guys are not talentless amorphous blobs of nothing until suddenly they produce and become some thing. You may not like guys or see the talent, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. 

[bryan35]

15 hours ago, Booch said:

Yeah he should get 2 or 3 in a row for sure if anything to let ZC rest...he came into the rain game...then last night no real practice all week and a high-school level oc'd game and a div 2 quality recieving group...get a full week in this week...get some legit scheming..coaching...and talent around him...and see whats what...also gotta remember...hes barely 9 months removed from a complete knee rebuild...takes time to get the movement and running back

Strev has been with the team all year and has had first team reps for weeks at a time. Doubt an extra practice would make a difference.

Any good OC will scheme around a qbs abilities. Mid to deep passing isn't a strong point of CS. I see Jackson talking to CS all game on the sideline. Think he's getting the coaching unless JJ is a schmuch??

Running was a huge part of his game don't think that will ever return.

Looked like Argos were keying on Brady and the inside run. Would think it would have opened up the passing game. We need an upgrade at receiver.

Edited 2 hours ago by bryan35

[Tracker]

12 hours ago, Noeller said:

I'm definitely not saying any of our QBs have been great lately by any stretch, but If the pocket is always collapsing around them, it's hard to judge if they're doing well or not. 

Plus: we don't know if the receivers are running the routes properly or if the play called takes advantage of opposition weaknesses. We do have pretty good proof that damned few of our receivers are disposed to fight for 50-50 balls. 

[Stickem]

I like Streve....he has great hustle and can still run BUT why do I say 'OH NO' to myself, everytime he sets up to throw...Is it his unorthodox way he throws the ball...or is it his inaccuracy ??? I cringe when a lot of his passes look like they're going to get pic'd...You shouldn't have those concerns AND when he does have one pic'd off, my confidence in him as a no 1 takes a nosedive ...He still has time to prove he can be our starter BUT right now the confidence level in him is slowly fading...