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I think it was Eli who opened a monster hole at the line to get Brady into the 2nd level.

Manu, Cline and Taylor are nice hopes for the future of the oline. I'll give KW that.

That’s crazy talk. We have to start 3 Canadian receivers… No matter what.

Condell had/has a great rapport with Zack but I don't see where he's developed one with our star running back...especially after Brady's comments after the stumps game ...I think it would be wise to let the game flow with Brady and not shelve your star player at a crucial point in the game ....That was a bull$hit move by Condell

" I thought that was the best decision for the team in order to get back into the game,” Condell told the media on Monday. “ Yeah Tommy, we know... That's the problem, you're an idiot about the run game by and large

I mean, Demski has been the only reliable WR for us catching the ball. After that, Wilson has been by far the least reliable. He had more drops in 1 game then any one else has this season. For catch security, I'd put Nield handily above White. White has benefited a lot from screen passes and easy catches, whereas Nield's catches have come consistently in the first-down range downfield. Nield isn't being used well at that. He's basically getting the looks that we previously used with Woli and Clercius despite playing in the slot. Nield isn't actually a big physical WR, he just looks like it next to our motley crue of mini WRs. Clercius and Demski are really the only ones capable of running violently and punishing defenders a little on breaking tackles. This is why Daniels is such a waste. 6'6 270, and plays no power. He should be on the PR; I'd have Nield serve as the backup, and use MCI out of the TE spot we've been using Daniels. He still isn't polished enough to run with anywhere near his power potential, but he can at least push forward when tackled and brings speed. Not to mention upside. MCI needs to be used to develop significantly more, which made his lack of use in preseason so frustrating. We need to go out and get some WRs with physicality. Imp or NI. Guys who have a basic idea of what to do vs zone, man, when the QB is pressured, etc. We sure as hell can't seem to coach that worth a damn anymore.

Wheatfall’s just a guy and not really worth crying over his loss. I have little doubt Singer would put up similar numbers if we used a 3rd import at rec.

So on Tommy's comments about he did what he thought best given the situation, it was 39-30 early in the 4th, we're on the Calgary 50, Dru rolls out and throws a pick. Brady was hot, nothing wrong with running the ball there. My take. Tommy is not back in 2027.

Yes, Wilson's cross face on the tackler bought Brady enough time to cut back and push in the final couple of yards. Which likely would've been down maybe at the 4 or 5 otherwise. But that was after going untouched for 30 yards. Wilson did the very least of what he should do, allowing Brady to score. If he had gotten a decent block in the first place brady doesn't need to cut back, though. The OL gets 80% of the credit, Brady gets 18%, and Wilson gets 2%. Brady was a good teammate on that, and Wilson did enough. He's never going to be a guy who blows up a tackler with a block and cruises onto another target. But 1on1 blocking a DB doesn't require anything more than effort. If Wilson gave the smallest amount less on that play, he wouldn't accomplish anything. The minimum expectation for WR blocking downfield here used to be soooo much higher. Frankly, you can trade off the blocking like that, but it's gotta come with all the things we don't get from our WRs today. Great catching, yac/downfield threats, extreme consistency, or explosivity. We've traded it off for nothing. That is far from all on Wilson. And while Wilson has had a pretty rough go of late at every thing wr, its largely because he isn't a wr1 but having to fill that role.

Condell's words are revealing into his approach to playcalling. He's trying to put together drives philosophically (this drive we're going to run, this drive we're going to throw deep, this drive we're going to kill them with intermediate passes, this drive we're going to screen) rather than calling the best play to get the result down and distance on the next play against the opposing defence's tendencies. His philosophy would work a lot better if we locked in personnel groups on each drive and ran tempo. At the normal pace of the game it's useless.

3DownNationTommy Condell defends Winnipeg's lack of late-game carrie...The Winnipeg Blue Bombers went away from their best player when their recent game against the Calgary Stampeders was on the line, a decision offensive coordinator Tommy Condell doesn’t appear to regreThis interview brings to mind the quote, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak, and remove all doubt." He attributes Brady's big run to the WRs blocking downfield (LOL), takes general responsibility while saying he always does that, without taking any specific responsibility. Then chalks up the offence's issues to ball security, which he says he can fix in practice. I haven't seen a great block from a WR on a run play all year. I've seen a lot of low focus, low effort downfield, though. The OL get nasty when they manage to get downfield, but not most of the WRs. Corcoran is solid blocking; Demski, as always, that's about it. I mean, Wilson and White are two of the lightest starters in the league, but neither has the grit that Dressler and the like had. The WRs get downfield and, at best, look to get in the way of tacklers. Ball security has been an issue, but it's far from the primary issue. Catching has been as much an issue as ball security, maybe more. Not to mention the fact that we consistently layer routes over each other in the same area, short of the first down marker, seem to have no red zone play call, half the time don't have a check down, don't have passing concepts set up to get the ball deep, not to mention constantly underusing and poorly using Brady. He takes more snaps out at WR than he gets carries, despite the fact that we are on track to cut his average receiving yardage to less than half his average over the past 3 years. His response isn't as toxic and tone deaf as Hogan's was last year, but it is pretty poor for a guy clearly trying to be more political in response than anything. If Brown et al don't carry him hard and quickly, the offence is gonna be getting booed off the field on a regular basis.

He’s had some really bad drops and hasn’t really been as physical as you’d expect given his size.

not likely...he downgraded the position...by making it canadian...uneeded at that with 2 guys who likely dont make another teams roster....and we still have to back that position up with a Canadian All that was needed..Bring back Wheatfall....would have been cheap...Let him and actual real recruits/prospects battle for the position...keep the 2 best as the starter,,,and backup for the PR...If it's Wheatfall....fine...if 2 others are better, or show more promise...You cut him...simple roster management/creation We predetermined prior to camp even opening that we were gonna go 3 Canadians...Tait mentioned it daily...Coaches alluded to it...and that was that...even when better talent in camp was there...we still wnt Canadian there. Some say its the "5th" option and no minimal targets will go there...which is a load of dogshit...why define it as that??..thats just a acceptance of not trying to win and build best team...Targets in a game should be dictated by flow...who's hot...what defence is giving...on and on...and in that context you should have the 5 best players who fit/satisfy your ratio on the field....period...no questions asked. Not just send out some clowns you like or suit your bias that essentially offer nothing...How is that making the best roster available game in and game out and best chance to win??? Riddle me that The pathetically sad part...for years now here with Osh this is not just isolated to one position group...And to further hammer the point home..Our 2 yrs we won the cup..and the 2 yrs immediately following where we should of won if not for Osh's stupidity with roster (playing hurt guys...stupid in game decisions) and poor overall roster...our receiving group did not consist of a useless plug...with minimal skills and or athleticism...5 guys who all could make plays and garner attention...and if you slept on one...they would hurt you....

Yeah happened a couple months ago. Was part of a rare (for the Bombers) flurry of neg list activity so it kinda got buried.

All of Wilson, White, and Neild are upgrades on Wheatfall, as I've said. Cobb was already here.

I’m not so sure everything will be right, but a win is a win. The Bomber staff don’t seem to think anything is wrong, so they’re apparently all right. The fan base feels differently, but would beating this BC team really make anyone feel much better? If we stomp them and look like a properly prepared team, that has made some adjustments, I may have a bit of hope for the season. I’m not going to hold my breath.

I think it's a combination of things with the WRs. We don't coach the minutiae remotely as well as we used to. Even the basics. But we also changed drastically the type of WR we recruit. You look at the guys previously; we recruited good size 6'1-6'3, 205+ lbs, with marginal speed (4.6-4.7 40), but who made their bones winning 1on1 physically. You look at the WRs we won cups with; Lawler was the spry guy. But he's extremely strong in his upper body and all about winning the 1on1s. After that, Demski is the shortest guy at 5'11, and everyone is over 205. Look at our WR core now, including the PR; we have 4 guys in the 170lbs range and 6 guys who are 6' or less. Corcoran, Clercius, and Nield are the only guys 6'+ and 200+. That's with Clercius just getting back into the lineup, and Corcoran existing as a blocker/pylon in the pass game. This isn't just a few outliers either; we hammered the bigger, stronger type WRs back in the ships. Camp was filled with that prototype. We were pretty desperate for speed at wr back then, but now we are looking at nothing else. We did much the same at OL, went from looking for the guys with aggression and physicality, undersized but who could be optimized, to looking for giants who run and jump like NBA players but who lack the power and grit to excel. On the DL, we stopped looking for big, athletic, nasty DTs who could play outside some and disrupt a lot from up the middle. Even in the secondary, we have gotten away from what brought us success. Partly due to injury, but Griffin is our only big physical outlier. Woodbey and Allen will bring more of that when healthy, but that's still a far cry from how our secondary used to break WRs will to compete with physicality. The secondary has locked in on vets, and been forced to play young guys due to injuries. When at our best, the young DBs each year pushed the level of play higher and took jobs.

TBF, Brady got into the endzone thanks to Wilson on that play. If you watch Brady celebrating, he points at Pokey, acknowledging him for the block. It's wasn't a physical block though, he just kind of got in the way and the defender had to go around him to try to get to Brady. Brady had also racked up huge yards by that point too so the block just allowed him to finish off the run with a TD.

Yeah...about as out in space as what younger and osh said in the other article On the one big bo run..the 40 yard one..eli and elsbury opened a whole JT could of ran thru and gained 15 yards...there was no receiver in site I have yet to see this yr what a Bailey..Adams..Woli...Clercius..even Lawler has done for the run game...heck even lil Lucky was a key downfield blocker on some runs.and big yac plays by other wr's Did we stop coaching? Was it that those guys before just knew what to do and didnt need coaching? Or is it cause we have a bunch of und er sized pansies..thats in db backfield too.. Thats about as dumb as Osh comment about watching film and seeing the truth...whole load of crap..just a dumb bunch of guys running things..the new trinity..not surprising that Osh is main part of both trinities..anyone see the common denominator? I sure do

Yeah...daniels needs some PR time..and MCI needs more use..he not gonna develop by 2 reps a game..he has improved a lot since rookie yr..and with his skillset and size..imagine what he could be if we put time and effort into him? Clercius as a sure handed guy to convert will help...prob best pure "hands" on the team and hes strong as fack! We need to use him as such..a big bodied inside guy u can trust..aid in run game and if ignored will hurt teams Singer and or Womack need to be added to see how that changes the dynamics of our offence...We know Singer can stretch field and is good on intermediate routes and has good hands.. and is fast..Womack intruiges as he is 6 feet tall...but thick as hell and could see him being a big after the catch guy hard to take down...and the search even if they produce shoukdnt end there..we need that big physical battle winner...especially when games start to really matter

Yeah dont get me wrong..a good addition and Demski....Clercius and him are a nice trio to have when starting 2 Canadians...which we should be doing and then Cobb as the extra guy if injury happens, or for certain packages as he does have value if used right...and is a capable returner if god forbid Vaval gets hurt...But if we had another guy in as the 5th receiver...Like Singer who can also return...then Cobb is even further depth for the roster

And if the Bombers had kept Wheatfall instead of attempting to upgrade the position, more favouritism claims would be made.

I think tho Cline could be one the early cuts that may happen before full cutdon He is only gauranteed 2k from his deal and 2k signing bonus and the dolphins either traded for, or signed 4 other Tackles...so assume he in tough there..

“The best thing we do post-game win or lose is we try to look at the truth. You want to know the truth,” said Blue Bombers head coach Mike O’Shea after practice on Monday. I call bullshit on this...100%....Smuggy can't recognize "the truth"

both those guys would have been superior to the 3 Canadian idea tho....more a matter of starting 3 canadians when we dont have to...when our depth to start 2 is questionable at best

At a certain point the roster construction debate starts to lose a bit of its punch when we've circled around and have started advocating for someone like Wheatfall to stick around, who had 42% of his production last year in the first 3 games of the season. No doubt if he had stuck around we'd be talking about him as someone proof-positive that the Bombers have locked in on their guys and it's impossible to crack the active roster as an outsider. People were giving **** to Jerreth Sterns as a JAG last year but he had similar overall production to Wheatfall with the added benefit of not disappearing for games at a time. Complaining about having a guy stick around because he's been here and knows the system despite being in over his head seems to be 95% of the content here so i'm not sure I get it.

Interesting comments BO made in regards to the offence...I sensing frustration there

But smart to neg list him regardless and keep him on it

I didn’t catch when it happened but we added the neg list rights to ni ol logan taylor who was a 6th round pick by the chargers. He was the top prospect won the ol in the draft. Played T in college is considered a G/C project in the nfl.

This is never anything any of us are ever going to be able to measure, but I also wonder how much of an effect on our talent the overall approach in the locker room has had. It's easy to say that Walters and company aren't bringing in enough talent, but what are they being handcuffed by? Agents aren't ignorant to this stuff, they know just as well as anyone else that Winnipeg isn't a team where you're going to get an opportunity. It's easy to say we should target a guy like Eberhardt compared to a guy like Tim White and I wholeheartedly agree, but does a guy like Eberhardt want to come here? Or is it obvious that he's not going to get an opportunity for an elevated role in the lineup? Are we going to pay a guy like that when all we seem to do lately is pay guys for what they've done in the past? It's easy to say get more players we can develop, but how many players are turning down offers for a practice roster spot because they're well versed in the concept that that's incredibly unlikely to lead to an opportunity here? For anyone new to the CFL, a practice roster spot is a low-salary stepping stone to hopefully more of an opportunity but what if the players are realizing that opportunity isn't going to come here? It's easy to say draft better talent, but same thing. Is Connor Shay a bust? It's impossible to even tell at this point. We have no idea because we don't give him any opportunities. When Jaylen Smith is a free agent at the end of 2027, is he going to walk to a team that's going to give him a better opportunity? Our franchise has become the retirement home, lifetime appointment type environment. That's the biggest problem of all and to me, that is why this all falls primarily on the coaching. The coaching staff has built that. The coaching staff has allowed that to be what they're content with. The other areas of this team aren't without blame by any stretch but when poor performance doesn't equate to consequences, nobody's playing for their job (or paycheque) and players are being allowed to coast off of resumes, this is what happens.

Nichols hasn't been nearly the biggest issue in the secondary. Both the field and boundary sides have been awful. No one should be married to the starting spots, but the one who has been all bad is Moxey. Otherwise, the primary cause of our struggle has been the scheme. This has been for 2 primary reasons. 1, we are reinventing the wheel yet again, and 2, the complexity has all the DBs playing extremely tentatively, which leads to getting burned. We used to take a LBer off for 1db, who would play between the half and the LBer. We would also, for that part of a year, take a DL off and run an extra deep cover DB. What we are doing now is taking a Lber off for a DB, but putting that DB in as a 2nd Safety. But then we are playing those safeties shallow to the box. We then rotate coverage to add a DB to the box in a blitz or to play a shallow zone. This is causing havoc with who is picking up the deepest targets. Normally in our system, either the corner carries his man to the Half then covers under that, or he carries his man deep if he's playing on an island on the wide side. Then the SAM or the dime sub db would wall off the lane/seam inside to pick up crossers. In Cover 3, the halfs and S would generally have deep 3rds and be the guy a WR is carried to. Sometimes that would be rotated over 1 spot with a SAM going up and a half playing short. Usually this would happen vs an unbalanced WR set to the wide side. We've changed how many DBs we play, and some roles, but largely it's been the same scheme going back to Hall. The idea is that the DBs play in backpedal as much as possible, facing the QB and rallying to the ball to make plays. That's why we have long coveted big and athletic DBs. Hall tended to play more vanilla in coverage and played with a larger cushion. Generally dropping the seam and short zone to the first down marker. Which is why we saw so many catch and runs for first downs back in the day. (the Fire Hall thread era complaints) JY plays with less cushion; he likes to blitz more and use complicated rotations to change the gaps from blitzing. Whereas Hall counted on 4 DL to create disruption, with the LBER blitzing when the RB didn't vacate the backfield, but really just eating up an OL to keep the 4 dl in 1on1s. Hall would do more with the front to create pressure; the cheetah pack we used is an example, twists/stunts, and layering pass rush lanes so that we wouldn't get QBs in 2 seconds, but they wouldn't see 4+ second pockets. Previously, Nichols was either playing a wall/seam on first down so he could be used in the run fits, or picking up a target pushing deep when he was in the intermediate range, knowing he had an S in the middle to anchor his leverage off of. So short zone player under and usually outside to leverage the WR up to him and a S to leverage the inside. He would then read the route and either take the outside away or go downfield stride for stride. What we are doing now in coverage is running a lot of Cover 2, with far less consistency in who is the 2nd deep cover guy. When we do run Cover 3, we are often running it with a corner on a deep 3rd instead of inside DBs. The 2nd S is playing so shallow/blitzing so often that the deep cover guys are too far apart to be leveraged by anyone who isn't right under them. And the 2 guys taking deep zone assignments are so infrequently the same guys that no one is comfortable or able to leverage off deep cover. Watch the first Calgary passing highlight at 35 seconds. It looks like a traditional 4-2 alignment in the CFL pre-snap. But by the time the ball is snapped, Kelly the S is right up behind Jones the Mac. Pause when the ball is caught at 41 seconds. Williams the corner and Nichols are at the same depth. Holm was the only deep player, and the ball is thrown to the target under him. Moxey has been pushed deep by his WR. In the past, this would've been a pass off of the wideout to Holm, with Moxey coming up to the short pass with the Sam playing the wall. But Holm is the only deep man, so they both get pulled off. The Sam, Griffin, is pulled in by the play action and jet motion of 17 for Calgary, creating the immediate gap in coverage. So the motion from 17 causes an overly complicated response from the D. Kelly moves up to the box, Griffin moves up for the PA and the motion, and Nichols switches to man, leaving Holm with the decision of being the only guy left in deep cover with 2 guys pushing deep, or coming up on a short to medium route. This looks bad for Holm, but he made the best decision possible. It's a no-win spot for him, though. No matter which decision he makes, we are giving up a completion for a first down. Then, of course, the tackling is poor because the pursuit angles are frantic and no one has good leverage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIRmxVOqF-k In the past, instead of having 4 guys in the tackle box, the SAM would kick out further outside to pick up the motion from the wr and the S would stay deep. If you watch the next play at 52 seconds, you again see us start in cover 3, with the deepest man only 10 yards off the line of scrimmage; then we move the S up to the box again into cover 2. Nichols and Holm are the only deep guys, which leaves us with open gaps in the run fits. That leaves us with 1 more gap than players to fill it, despite the crowded box. That also relies on DBs to close interior gaps. 1.44, we show cover 3 and drop into it, but this time we have Hallett and Kelly in the 2 S set both playing deep. They get it out quick to a WR for an easy first. If you pause before the ball comes out at 1.44, you see 5 Calgary WRs past the line with no DBs playing short. That pass could've got to any WR on a short route for an easy first down. VA just has to hit a guy quickly who is away from the LBs. 3.00 we get a sack on showing and dropping 3 deep in a more traditional 4-2 with the SAM wide and corners up. But if Va wasn't locked in on 4, who is open, he'd have seen 87 was open for a first right in front of him. Because he is running a drag route vs the Wil. These aren't cases of the DBs just getting beaten. It's our scheme being beaten and giving Calgary what they want without taking away anything really. Normally, you aim to take away some of the looks the offence likes while trading off deep cover and run fit balance based on down and distance. Instead, we aren't really doing any of those. We are giving up the high-percentage throws to the wideouts; we aren't taking away the deep ball with sound deep cover, and we aren't running the run fits well. The field is too wide for frequent Cover 2 use, and not having some consistency in who is the deep cover makes it very hard to hand guys off. Nichols and Holm aren't being asked to do the same job they have been here, and are all over the map in what they are doing snap to snap. The Canadian contingent in deep cover this year is largely playing the role of scarecrows. But no one is afraid. Kelly has actually been the best of those 3, which is problematic in itself. Most teams these days play 1 Canadian back there doing this stuff. Nobody is playing 2, especially not with the frequency we are using cover 0-2.

Has Tommy heard of a stalk block? Wide receivers are historically bad blockers. because they're in space & angles are constantly changing just getting in the way is just what they do. Name me one wideout who made a million dollars leading the league putting linebackers & DB's on their ass downfield. They'll throw the odd great block if they're in a position to do that. I know Bailey, Adams & Woli were the exceptions. But that was a special group.

Yup

Its been obvious for quite some time that its coaching, the front office and players who are to blame. Game day experience and the tickets sold get a pass. I can say as a long time season ticket holder, 3 out of the 4 home games have stunk performance wise this year.

But keep in mind, when Condell and Zach were in hamilton together, that lead to the worst stretch of zachs career by a long shot, and TC getting canned.

The players certainly played a roll. But...putting it only on the players just isn't how professional football works. Like any issue, nuance is key.

Lets see ...they have problems at quarterback....oline......secondary ....and their running game is the shitz ....I hope we don't find a way to let them demoralize us further....but ya never know

Third string rookie QB? Should light us up like we're a elementary flag football team.

definately having game dictating what should be ran or used to counter act things...no wonder at times it looks so unprepared...just throwing whatever at a wall to see if it sticks

One would hope the team plays better this week.

Its been a 4 yr skid..each yr worse than the previous..first was the record...followed by position in standings.. and next earlier playoff exit..to the point we needed to cross over..whats the result this yr..no playoffs? Or just another cross over and esf exit?

Could be, should be, will be...BETTER BE!

So, we should be 5-3 after this game & all will be right with the world again for another week. But if we don't win....

100%. bringing in roosevelt years back fixed our wr core and he didn't even have to play.

I think you start with cleaning house on the scouting staff.

Wheatfall had 655 last year compared to Neild's 535 and Wheatfall was supposed to be a much larger part of our offence. He just couldn't rise to the occasion. Health being equal, Neild will outperform him this year as the 4th option in our offence. I'm not sure why people are pretending Keric was something he wasn't, and isn't.

Wheatfall was very hit or miss here. He is not a guy to get your panties in a twist about. You should be able to find a half dozen guys like that for training camp every year.

No, its still an over pay even with his step up. It's just less awful. OL is the position to overpay at, especially for young Canadians. Desjarlais is the guy we should've paid. The fact we squandered Gray and let both Dobson and Desjarlais walk is a big problem. We kept having NI OL walk for so long; we thought we would always have the next guy. And we just didn't. We had some bad OL classes, and the NFL started vacuuming up our top prospects.

I'm not wholesale against a change but I'd sure love to hear who's a better option out there....