Is it safe to say he's kicked in his last game for this team after that performance?

2 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I love this idea. Want to see how the average armchair kicker handles the boos when they miss one, or gets 12 pages of hate speech on MBB describing how useless they are. 

O’Shea is keeping him for now, has identified the issue as an alignment one that is being worked on. Like it or not, he is the coach, and to quite the movie Moneyball, he is the man, he answers to no one but management and God. And given where he pulled this club from and where they are in the league at this moment, he’ll get my patience and acceptance if not my thunderous applause and unwavering approval at this time. 

I would go early for a few bevy’s and just watch someone’s grandpa trying to make a FG. Maybe they can bring back the Wendy’s kick for a million contestants as well. 

I do remember going to one game and they had a fan kicking field goals to win prizes and they had a cheer leader boot a 30 yard field goal with ease... the dude in the contest tries from 30 yards and the balls barely even goes 10 yards down field...  I never seen a man shrink so small in front of a crowd of 25 000 people lol. 

6 hours ago, Mark F said:

anyone besides speedflex and me remember Dave Cutler 45 yard line ritual?

lol

Oh yeah, he'd always run out on the 45 yard line & then trot over to where the ball is to be placed. I bet a lot of kickers have rituals or superstitions. 

1 hour ago, Bomber_fanaddict said:

I would go early for a few bevy’s and just watch someone’s grandpa trying to make a FG. Maybe they can bring back the Wendy’s kick for a million contestants as well. 

That final in the Grey Cup was awful. 

3 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Well, we could run him out of town. Like we did with another kicker who set a club record for accuracy in his rookie year, and then got turfed the following season when the average dipped. Went elsewhere and re-found his game with a new team, became an all-star and then went on to the NFL. Went by the name of Hajrullahu or something. 

Remind me again who everyone is now begging management to bring back? Be careful what you wish for. 
 

I'd cut Hajrullahu for Castillo 10 times out of 10 and Medlock 15 times out of 10.

5 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Well, we could run him out of town. Like we did with another kicker who set a club record for accuracy in his rookie year, and then got turfed the following season when the average dipped. Went elsewhere and re-found his game with a new team, became an all-star and then went on to the NFL. Went by the name of Hajrullahu or something. 

Remind me again who everyone is now begging management to bring back? Be careful what you wish for. 
 

Why is cutting a 31 year old kicker who isn't performing some kind of cruel act that somehow we'll regret?

21 hours ago, wbbfan said:

I think its much more mechanical. Its like a pitchers delivery and release. Except you need basically flawless mechanics every time. 

Mental issues can ruin any player in any sport. And staying consistent through long droughts of not kicking, even with in a game is tough. But that is never an issue with QBs who come in off the bench or who go a long stretch with out a possession/many passes.

Ive played with kicking, but I wasnt a real kick at any level. Ive done muay thai and kicking arts extensively and I can tell you ive seen peoples kicking mechanics fall apart over minor tightness and all kinds of minor technique issues. 

Watching soo many of Mourtadas clips, he practices trying to make field goals while kicking off. The tee, the holder, his approach, empty fields, and always from right down the middle. Its like a kick off. Which is why he excels at kicking off soo much. In a kick off you have no timer, you can take as comfortable a stride as you like. Kicking a field goal, you have to cover a very precise distance, with an exact number of steps, in a small time window. All of that is stuff he didnt seem to practice. 

His approach looks uncomfortable to me. And he looks un sure of every kick he launches. But never surprised when he misses. I really dont think he knows mechanically how to reliably kick and adjust to different spots on the field. He only seems comfortable with the xpt, which is right down the middle. 

It isnt really a surprise, he's only kicked a little bit in the IFL as a pro, didnt have a full college career, and what he had ended a very long time ago. He's old, lacks experience, and has tremendous leg strength. Weaker leg guys arent trying to hit 60 yard fgs every day, they are trying to figure out how to hit from every angle, and mastering their mechanics. 

First off I readily admitt I have never kicked a field goal in my life. You obviously havd a far greater knowledge in that department than I do and that was a great reply.But I will use your example of martial arts because I have been at that for 20 years.. When teaching my students the 1st thing I teach is correct form and technique in a particular kick. Then over time it's building muscle memory while using that proper form. So eventually it's just instinct. But then enters the mental part.  People do develop bad habits over time that need correcting. Also you train them correctly but when they go into competition it's just not there.They might have a beautiful roundhouse in training but when they spar they just can't get if off. After 20 years it still surprises me who thrives at sparring and who doesn't.

But back to kicking football's, once someone has learned the technique ( and at this level ,you would think that should be a given ) I would have thought it was pretty much entirely his inability to perform in the heat of action. If you are right and it is technique and knowledge of kicking from different hashmarks then he has no business in Pro ball in my opinion. Thanks for the great response by the way , those were great observations. 

Just now, the watcher said:

First off I readily admitt I have never kicked a field goal in my life. You obviously havd a far greater knowledge in that department than I do and that was a great reply.But I will use your example of martial arts because I have been at that for 20 years.. When teaching my students the 1st thing I teach is correct form and technique in a particular kick. Then over time it's building muscle memory while using that proper form. So eventually it's just instinct. But then enters the mental part.  People do develop bad habits over time that need correcting. Also you train them correctly but when they go into competition it's just not there.They might have a beautiful roundhouse in training but when they spar they just can't get if off. After 20 years it still surprises me who thrives at sparring and who doesn't.

But back to kicking football's, once someone has learned the technique ( and at this level ,you would think that should be a given ) I would have thought it was pretty much entirely his inability to perform in the heat of action. If you are right and it is technique and knowledge of kicking from different hashmarks then he has no business in Pro ball in my opinion. Thanks for the great response by the way , those were great observations. 

Thats a great example, plenty of people can execute in practice but when in the ring or on the field it all just falls apart. Muscle memory is a fickle thing too. Often in many sports but especially positions involving leg drive (pitching, qb, kicking etc) people try to make minor corrections and improvements to technique which throws them off. Learning a thing for the first time is fairly quick and easy compared to trying to tweak and improve a technique. 

 Ive seen pitchers get fixed, but their mechanical struggle and striving for improvement is a twice a week for their entire career thing. I havent seen QBs fix their mechanics in the pros. Not when they have decent college and HS experience. I feel like at a certain amount of reps you just hit a wall, and at that point you are better off trying to off set your weaknesses rather than change technique and wholesale fix them. 

The line between mental, muscle memory, and mechanical technique can be fine. The mental issues as you refer to them could be the issue. I think in sports the majority of people who talk about the mental execution issue are just talking about guys cracking. Like a QB hearing footsteps. So that could be the bias of my own perception. I would categorize muscle memory and technique as physical but I can see how people would consider it mental. 

Thanks, I really enjoyed your response too its a pretty interesting topic for me. Id be interested to hear about your martial arts experience if you wanna hit me up about it some time too. 

10 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Why is cutting a 31 year old kicker who isn't performing some kind of cruel act that somehow we'll regret?

If the Bombers cut Mourtada today... he's already played his last game in the CFL...

19 hours ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Mike O'Shea having a hardcore special teamer mentality and having a soft spot (i.e., loyalty to a fault) for any member going thru a rough patch on or off the field? I dunno.

I 100% do not understand the MOS loyalty argument. 

It he was loyal to a fault, why isn't Legs still in? Why bring in Mourtada at all? Or Crapinga for that matter?

2 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I 100% do not understand the MOS loyalty argument. 

It he was loyal to a fault, why isn't Legs still in? Why bring in Mourtada at all? Or Crapinga for that matter?

Legs is focusing on punting. He was struggling at all 3 roles which is a crazy amount to do in your first season, especially after a missed season. 

This game is now Foreign Legion territory for Mourtada.....
Kick or Die

I can kick a soccer ball but a football? Yeah years ago a bunch of us soccer guys were quickly humbled when a coach brought a football and tee to soccer practice and told us to try some field goals. I hit from 20 yards and 30 yards... everything further... yeah Not so good. Wide left or right every time. Def had the distance but the accuracy was a problem. Kept trying to kick it like it's a round ball  

2 minutes ago, do or die said:

This game is now Foreign Legion territory for Mourtada.....
Kick or Die

Oh he will kick. I just have no faith he can make a kick. 

The interesting part about Mourtada is he has the distance just not the accuracy.  My main problem and I didn't even play football. So gotta think it'd just... he's hitting it in the wrong spot. Wide left... next one wide right. He's either lining up wrong or just hitting it not solid. Gotta hit the sweet spot. I feel he doesn't 

Just now, Goalie said:

I can kick a soccer ball but a football? Yeah years ago a bunch of us soccer guys were quickly humbled when a coach brought a football and tee to soccer practice and told us to try some field goals. I hit from 20 yards and 30 yards... everything further... yeah Not so good. Wide left or right every time. Def had the distance but the accuracy was a problem. Kept trying to kick it like it's a round ball  

Thats the thing, going from one style of kicking to another is far harder than first trying to learn to kick a football. 

Remember that guy who hit the 50 yarder for a million bucks in that tsn contest a decade or more back? Then taman added his name to the neg list? I bet mourtada couldnt make a 45 from the hash for a million bucks. 

 I first tried kicking when I was 14 ish. I lived in a small town and had a massive yard. I was punting and kicking off a tee, the first day I hit the power line going to the house and broke it. It was dragged on the ground but not totally disconnected. The hydro guys came and laughed and joked about it and fixed it. The next day I hit it again, and broke it again. No laughs, no jokes, they got an RC down to talk to me and I was banned from kicking any where with in town limits ever again. 

 In junior every year I would try and back up any position the coaches would let me (My position list on the roster was hilariously long.) Among the many back up spots I held was holder. I held for the back up kicker (a wr) a few times. He was brutal and for laughing I got to run with the kickers for the day. After that, I got 3 kick offs to similar effect and was never allowed to kick again. The last kick off I tried the old westy on side kick. Sent a low screamer right at a guy in front of me. Broke his cup but he fell on the ball. First two went about as far out of bounds as they did down the field. 

All in all, I mightve punted the ball well, once, when I was 14.  

6 minutes ago, Goalie said:

The interesting part about Mourtada is he has the distance just not the accuracy.  My main problem and I didn't even play football. So gotta think it'd just... he's hitting it in the wrong spot. Wide left... next one wide right. He's either lining up wrong or just hitting it not solid. Gotta hit the sweet spot. I feel he doesn't 

Landing a kick in the sweet spot frequently has to be really hard. I couldnt believe how bob cameron would do it when punting, especially when he would throw the ball towards his foot rather than drop it. The more I think about it, the crazier kicking seems. Must be why they are pretty much all coo coo for cocopuffs. 

1 hour ago, Jesse said:

I 100% do not understand the MOS loyalty argument. 

It he was loyal to a fault, why isn't Legs still in? Why bring in Mourtada at all? Or Crapinga for that matter?

I get what you’re saying but he didn’t cut Legs either. Who really knows why Mourtada has been gifted more lives than a cat.

38 minutes ago, Goalie said:

The interesting part about Mourtada is he has the distance just not the accuracy.  My main problem and I didn't even play football. So gotta think it'd just... he's hitting it in the wrong spot. Wide left... next one wide right. He's either lining up wrong or just hitting it not solid. Gotta hit the sweet spot. I feel he doesn't 

He kicks it straight from where he lined up. On the left hash? Gonna miss left. On the right? Gonna miss right. Dude just doesn't get how angles work. If he was kicking from the middle of the field all the time no problem but the cfl that doesn't happen.

1 hour ago, Jesse said:

I 100% do not understand the MOS loyalty argument. 

It he was loyal to a fault, why isn't Legs still in? Why bring in Mourtada at all? Or Crapinga for that matter?

I think they're trying to bring Legs along slowly .

17 hours ago, 17to85 said:

young canadian vs. old assed american with no resume to speak of... yeah totally the same. I got lots of patience with Legghio for the reasons you listed. Not for an american on the wrong side of 30 with no proven ability to kick the ball at any appreciable level. 

 

A guy missing because he just misses some kicks and has consistency issues is one thing, a guy missing because he isn't able to figure out how to kick from the hash marks is quite another. 

Also this argument about running players out of town. Not from a professional coaches perspective but from posters here, when is it running them out of town or cutting them because they’re bad and we don’t have the luxury of developing them to be less bad to getting better? Right, it’s subjective so based on his body of work to date I wouldn’t say this falls into running him out of town. By CFL standards if you are going to bring in a 31 year old American kicker unfortunately the rope has to be short due to ratio. The only reason he is still around is we are 8 and 1, we have been pounding teams of late and he hasn’t cost us a game yet. He would be a distant memory if any of these things were different. If he lights it up next week great but it won’t be a I told you so. It will be because he’s playing on the best team by far in the league where you may have more luxury figuring out potential.

40 minutes ago, ddanger said:

I think they're trying to bring Legs along slowly .

Ideally last season medlock would have mentored legs but canceled retired... legs no mentor.  Young and Canadian who can do all 3 vs 31 yr old American 

Muscle memory and the mental aspect have to go hand in hand with any sport that requires precision...Golfing is a great example....I've witnessed professional golfers games fall apart on short putts ...it's called the 'yips' ...They over think what should be an easy part of the game (some say) BUT it can be crucial if the mental part is unfocused....I don't know what Mourtada's problem is ...is it mechanics or mental or both....At any rate he better get it all together in Edm. cuz the clock is ticking and he's working in overtime

9 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Ideally last season medlock would have mentored legs but canceled retired... legs no mentor.  Young and Canadian who can do all 3 vs 31 yr old American 

Can do all 3 in theory. He's the worst kick off guy in the league. He had 1 good game punting, and has been one of the worst punters too. Worst punt avg, 2nd worst net punt avg. He's shanked more punts than games played. 

 

6 minutes ago, Jpan85 said:

 

Amazing DT didn't include Ryan. Wonder why? 

1 hour ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Also this argument about running players out of town. Not from a professional coaches perspective but from posters here, when is it running them out of town or cutting them because they’re bad and we don’t have the luxury of developing them to be less bad to getting better? Right, it’s subjective so based on his body of work to date I wouldn’t say this falls into running him out of town. By CFL standards if you are going to bring in a 31 year old American kicker unfortunately the rope has to be short due to ratio. The only reason he is still around is we are 8 and 1, we have been pounding teams of late and he hasn’t cost us a game yet. He would be a distant memory if any of these things were different. If he lights it up next week great but it won’t be a I told you so. It will be because he’s playing on the best team by far in the league where you may have more luxury figuring out potential.

In your first sentence you say “we don’t have the luxury of developing them” and then in the last sentence you directly contradict it by saying he is still here because on this team “you may have more luxury figuring out potential”. This is the “run out of town” mentality on display a bit. Has he botched his kicking angles so far? Big time. But O’Shea seems to believe it is a correctable mechanical issue. Should have it already been corrected? Well, I think so but I am willing to defer to a professional kicker or a head coach who thinks more time is allowed. And the guy has been here for 3 games. Good luck to you if you ever had a job with a 3 week probationary period, and you were held responsible for the past guy’s mistakes. Let’s face it, after watching Liegghio miss some converts a lot of folks wanted him gone and were calling for the phenom with the big leg “Hakuna Mourtada” but after one miss from Mourtada it was immediately “here we go again, find another guy”. And now folks have revisionist history and wonder if we gave up on Liegghio too quickly, and give him another shot. Like we did with Hajrullahu, or Kamau “Incompleterson” who found his game in Edmonton, or likewise Adarius Bowman, who went from semi-average to the league’s best once he moved on. Brendan LaBatte said of Winnipeg fans after he left “In Saskatchewan they love you win or lose, in Winnipeg they love you win or tie. Well, maybe not tie”. I am not happy with Mourtada, and would hope we have a better option, but yeah 4 weeks seems like a rush to judgment, especially if the guy whose job depends on wins (O’Shea) is prepared to let this play out beyond one month and avoid a revolving door.