Lawless: Bombers need to sign Ben Heenan

[17to85]

It's always about the money.

It's not always about the money. He's one of the highest paid if not the highest paid offensive linemen in the CFL with the deal he got in Sask is he not? So it's not like the Riders got him at a discount. They're paying him as one of the top players at his position AND he gets to play closer to home, in his wifes (girlfriends?) home... how much more money did the Bombers need to offer to over come those factors? Where would the Riders have topped out at bidding? Money is only one factor. 

[Jacquie]

For one thing, the idea to move Labatte to center was a major brain fart. From what I know of LaPolice, I can't see him considering such a move without consulting Labatte. Mack on the other hand ...

Doug Brown's column from Aug 30/12 that was posted in this thread was the first time the centre issue came up publicly that I recall. In that column Labatte told DB that it was discussed in a meeting between LaPolice and LaBatte in Jan/12. By discussed I mean LaPolice talked and LaBatte said nothing.

As well, I believe the lack of a support system for his pregnant girlfriend was given as a reason at some point.

I'm not sure how trying to sign LaBatte for a year and a half and offering a contract that would make him the highest paid olineman in the league translates to not valuing LaBatte.

[Mark H.]

 

There were three reasons suggested why Labatte left the Bombers:

 

1) he didn't want to play center,

 

2) he wanted to join his girlfriend in Sask,

 

3) Sask offered him more money.

 

I think it was two years ago on a Bombers/Riders pre-game show that Bob Irving interviewed Labatte and asked him which of the above caused him to leave the Bombers. After going on a bit about how he really didn't want to play center, Labatte said "Basically, all of the above."

 

I've always thought that Mack was basically blameless about this but I'm beginning to have my doubts. For one thing, the idea to move Labatte to center was a major brain fart. From what I know of LaPolice, I can't see him considering such a move without consulting Labatte. Mack on the other hand ...

But here's the thing, Labatte has admitted that he didn't even talk about his desire to not switch to centre with the Bombers. So the situation is one where the Bombers outline their plan for the player but the player doesn't tell them he doesn't like that. You think if he had said he wasn't keen on it that the Bombers wouldn't have changed their tune if it meant keeping him? That's where you realize that Labatte really wasn't all that interested in staying with the Bombers. He didn't put in effort with them to get things worked out with Winnipeg on his terms, he just used them to drive up what he could get from the Riders. 

 

 

Sure, he could've talked to them about it; but one gets the impression Mack didn't listen to too many people.

[17to85]

 

 

There were three reasons suggested why Labatte left the Bombers:

 

1) he didn't want to play center,

 

2) he wanted to join his girlfriend in Sask,

 

3) Sask offered him more money.

 

I think it was two years ago on a Bombers/Riders pre-game show that Bob Irving interviewed Labatte and asked him which of the above caused him to leave the Bombers. After going on a bit about how he really didn't want to play center, Labatte said "Basically, all of the above."

 

I've always thought that Mack was basically blameless about this but I'm beginning to have my doubts. For one thing, the idea to move Labatte to center was a major brain fart. From what I know of LaPolice, I can't see him considering such a move without consulting Labatte. Mack on the other hand ...

But here's the thing, Labatte has admitted that he didn't even talk about his desire to not switch to centre with the Bombers. So the situation is one where the Bombers outline their plan for the player but the player doesn't tell them he doesn't like that. You think if he had said he wasn't keen on it that the Bombers wouldn't have changed their tune if it meant keeping him? That's where you realize that Labatte really wasn't all that interested in staying with the Bombers. He didn't put in effort with them to get things worked out with Winnipeg on his terms, he just used them to drive up what he could get from the Riders. 

 

 

Sure, he could've talked to them about it; but one gets the impression Mack didn't listen to too many people.

 

Except the conversations would have been with the teams coaches not the GM with regards to what position he was going to play right? 

 

There's lots of things you can get on Mack for, but I don't think this is one. He did the best he could with the Labatte situation. You can't put a gun to a players head and force them to sign with you. Labatte was leaving and nothing was going to change that. 

 

Really the big thing that sunk Joe Mack was the handling of the coaching situation. Lapo wasn't a great coach but he fired him at the worst possible time and then replaced him with an even worse choice. That sets the entire thing off the rails in a big way. 

[DR. CFL]

If you don't think geography has a huge impact on where players play you are naïve. How many big name FAs have the Jets been able to lure to Winnipeg?

[TBURGESS]

Mack did the best he could in the situation?  Nope.  He should have known which way Labatte was leaning.  Lots of folks around here 'knew' that Labatte was going to sign in Regina.  Mack should have taken Picard before Regina did and at least upgraded our center spot when he lost out on Labatte.

[17to85]

Picard and Labatte are not even remotely comparable. Guaranteed 100% that if we had Picard people would still be bitching about the OL not being good enough. Centre hasn't been the problem area on this team. We'd still have used the same tackles and the same guards that haven't got the job done. 

[TBURGESS]

Picard and Labatte are not even remotely comparable. Guaranteed 100% that if we had Picard people would still be bitching about the OL not being good enough. Centre hasn't been the problem area on this team. We'd still have used the same tackles and the same guards that haven't got the job done. 

Picard is 100% better than Sorenson and was a move that Mack should have made.  Taman outplayed Mack to get both Picard and Labatte thereby fixing a poor O line and upgrading the Canadian talent all in a single season.

[17to85]

But you didn't address the main point of the argument, which is that the OL still would have used the same tackles and guards and those to me at least are the more key positions in terms of doing the job. 

[Floyd]

So glad we are having the Labatte debate again.

[pigseye]

Long story short.......make massive improvements to the nationals on both the O and D lines in the off season.

[Floyd]

Bring in Heenan... he will clean up this mess.

 

[mbrg]

Truly a silly article.

 

Heenan will only reach free agency if he wants to test free agency.  Saskatchewan can afford him easily by cutting some dead wood.  Taj Smith, Dom Picard, baddabing baddaboom, money for Heenan.

 

Even if he does reach free agency and money is the only thing that will speak to him...then he's a Redblack next year.

 

Yes, this is the same article he wrote for Mike Richards/Jets.

 

 

What are the chances Holmes makes free agency?

 

Depends on how sick of playing in front of an empty stadium and changing for practise inside a portapotty he is.  Chances are at least slightly better than Heenan, but the Argos are also aware that talented Canadians have high value and are difficult to replace.  Go figure.

 

He is Green all the way through and his family is from SK and are huge Rider fans and his racing business is in Weyburn and his girlfriend is there.

 

Just to clarify, his girlfriend wasn't shackled to the grain elevator in Weyburn.  I think.  It was not impossible for her to move here.  Some people act like it was.

 

There were three reasons suggested why Labatte left the Bombers:

 

1) he didn't want to play center,

 

2) he wanted to join his girlfriend in Sask,

 

3) Sask offered him more money.

 

I think it was two years ago on a Bombers/Riders pre-game show that Bob Irving interviewed Labatte and asked him which of the above caused him to leave the Bombers. After going on a bit about how he really didn't want to play center, Labatte said "Basically, all of the above."

 

I've always thought that Mack was basically blameless about this but I'm beginning to have my doubts. For one thing, the idea to move Labatte to center was a major brain fart. From what I know of LaPolice, I can't see him considering such a move without consulting Labatte. Mack on the other hand ...

 

Also, there's this tidbit from LaPolice in his column from a couple of days ago:

 

 

When I was the head coach in Winnipeg, I struggled and always lost in arguments with the general manager's insistence to never sign players from other teams. He believed in signing rookies and rookies alone would be the way we would fix any roster issues and or injury problems. That is why we always had the youngest team in the CFL each year. Often times, he would say "why do we want a guy who was not good enough to play for them?" A couple of reasons: one, they understand the rules and systems of the CFL and two, they may be a better fit for our roster than the team that released him.

 

Some guys may be better than what we have on the roster, which is not what the GM wanted to hear but was sometimes true. What the general manager did not understand is that rookie receivers may be faster on the stopwatch when you are scouting them running down a line. A slower veteran will play faster most times in the game because he knows what to do and what he is doing so those guys can play faster than rookies and the QB's will trust the veterans because they are in the right spot at the right time. Many players are excelling in the league today with very average 40 times.

 

Another example during my time as head coach in Winnipeg involved signing a rookie International defensive lineman early in the 2012 season over several options that had CFL experience. This player not only had not played in the CFL, he never had played defensive lineman. He was a linebacker who we moved to defensive line. This player did not have a training camp to learn the fundamentals of the position of DL or to learn the rules of the CFL. He was thrown into a very difficult position to be successful, especially early on and also the position coach who had to try to groom a LB on how to play defensive line was also put in a position you normally don't do in professional football; that is teach a player a position he never has played before.

 

True to form, we had an injury at the defensive line and the player had to start the next week with only four days of practice. He struggled for two or three weeks with lining up offsides, having not had a lot of experience with the yard off the ball. He took three penalties in his first game just lining up offsides. The general manager was frustrated by the penalties and would try to say it was the coach's fault for not explaining that to him or my fault for not teaching him about it. We actually kept track of offsides daily and did extra work when we went offside in practice but these things will happen to young inexperienced players and the best way for them to learn is through game experiences alone. That is how the player will get better at the position, game reps alone.

 

http://www.tsn.ca/lapolice-how-experience-can-help-down-the-stretch-1.97077

 

I can't help but suspect that Mack just didn't value Labatte's experience enough.

 

Fascinating stuff.  Money does not trump all.  Stability at home and work has value too.  When you're making $25,000, and extra $5000 is tough to turn down.  When you're making $200,000, and extra $5000 left on the table still stings, but not nearly as much.  So, yeah, "all of the above".

 

We had a chance to re-sign him for sure, but instead of saying and doing all the right things, it sounds like we did a lot of the wrong ones.  Money doesn't fix that.

 

As well, I believe the lack of a support system for his pregnant girlfriend was given as a reason at some point.

 

One word - grandparents.

 

Raising a kid with 4 free babysitters in close range - priceless.

[Goalie]

If you don't think geography has a huge impact on where players play you are naïve. How many big name FAs have the Jets been able to lure to Winnipeg?

I really don't think Geography has much to do with that, if the Jets were a winning team, Free agents would gladly sign here. Hell man, Detroit is a crap hole, its broke, it's cold, it's crappy, it's gang filled yet  free agents still sign there consistently? why? because that team wins. It comes down to winning, if the jets start winning, people will sign here. 

 

And if signing free agents to over priced contracts guaranteed you won stanley cups then why the heck hasn't Philly Toronto or even the rangers and flordia panthers won anything in recent memory. Because to be honest, free agents don't mean crap. 

[3rd & 1]

I think the Bombers already learned their lesson on SK Home town Olineman Gary.

Brendan LaBatte was a fantastic O-lineman. Drafted by the Bombers and played extremely well.

A combination of things led Brendan to free Agency. One of which was HC LaPolice had suggested

To Brendan that he was going to be moved to Center the following year. One of which Brendan did not like.

In the end Mr LaBatte just wanted to go home to his family. As well as play for the team he watched as he grew up.

No one can blame him for that. Others were doing the same that off season. Andy Fantuz was another.

So now it comes down to Ben Henan. A #1 Draft pick by the Riders. To which they ignored the reporting rule for TSN

to be the 1st to announce the signing. Instead CEO Hopson travelled to Saskatton to announce to Ben Hennan himself

at the UofS Huskies annual get together Breakfest. Ben was able to stand in front of his University teammates, students

and family to accept the #1 pick and put on his new Rider Jersey.

So the likelyhood of of signing Ben Hennan away from his whole life of football in Saskatchewan is likely 10 Million to 1.

I would suggest the Bomber brass move on and try to find more likely candidates.

[iso_55]

The only one who thinks we should sign Heenan is Gary Lawless. Never happen. 

[James]

no, everyone thinks we should, no one thinks we can

[mbrg]

no, everyone thinks we should, no one thinks we can

 

Ah yes, but now in a future column in 2017 when he's discussing whether or not the Bombers should fire Walters, he will say "I was on the record that Walters should have signed Ben Heenan...."

 

He's laying the groundwork for future declarations of his superior football knowledge.

[Y2C]

Wasn't it also Lawless that made the brilliant suggestion that we trade imports for high end Canadians?

 

You know what I think? Acquiring Sidney Crosby would dramatically improve the Jets. How has Cheveldayoff not realized this???

[bearpants]

Obviously Lawless is right here.... but is he realistic? of course not...

 

I have a great idea... the Bombers need to sign Heenan, trade January, Grigsby, and Cotton to Calgary for Cornish and Brett Jones, then ship off Aaron Kelly and JFG to BC for Arseneaux and their 1st round pick.... badda-bing the offence is fixed! Man I'm a football genious!

 

Thanks for the insight Gary...

[kelownabomberfan]

Wasn't it also Lawless that made the brilliant suggestion that we trade imports for high end Canadians?

 

You know what I think? Acquiring Sidney Crosby would dramatically improve the Jets. How has Cheveldayoff not realized this???

I can see it now - Kane and Bogosian for Getzlaf and Perry. The Ducks would be crazzzzyyyy not to do that deal...

[kelownabomberfan]

Bring in Heenan... he will clean up this mess.

 

LOL - Nick Bockwinkel for OC!

[kelownabomberfan]

One word - grandparents.

 

Raising a kid with 4 free babysitters in close range - priceless.

From the commercials I just assumed that Brendan doesn't need babysitters as he spends most of his free time with his family eating the delicious and nutritious meals at Humptys.