Have a chance to move up in the standings, wont come easy vs Vernon, hopefully we end his Int streak and the defense handles the Calgary O. LETS ******* GO!!!

58 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

So after 8 weeks at what point is it the coaches fault for keeping the same underperforming lineup in there?

after week 3...4 at most it should have been adressed

55 minutes ago, DTonOB said:

Let me see if I can find out. I don't see teams displaying on their depth who is their 8th Canadian when he's a Nationalized player.

yeah find out...some I have seen it

I more interested on how many Canadians we are required to have on offence...and defence in the game

16 minutes ago, Mike said:

This is exactly it. We're not going to get away with blaming the players for everything.

I'll use the 118 yard MFG return as a perfect example ... did the players execute on that play? Absolutely not. Was it smart coaching to put that many OL and DT on the field in that situation? Also absolutely not. We can't use that as an example of just poor execution, it's also terrible coaching.

some of each for sure...also tho...if guys are not making plays...is it maybe cause they not good enough...or not good enough anymore?...issues that stem from coaches placing them on roster...do they not see it?...can they not evaluate properly?....are they too fixated on you need all these old in the tooth vets?

Lot's of blame to go around, and it's not isolated this yr...but for most the issues...poor scheme....poor prep....poor execution...all leads tothe same place...poor HC/coaching putting all this in place...and not deviating...and for most part since the 1st Cup flop and subsequent slide....there been basically 1 common denominator with the game day product...I'll let you all decide what that is, but it falls in line with what I been harping about for 3..4 yrs now in whats crippling us...

If this was all suddenly new we could just blame the players but there's been clear trends for at least 4 years now. That falls back to coaches and how they're running the team

10 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

If this was all suddenly new we could just blame the players but there's been clear trends for at least 4 years now. That falls back to coaches and how they're running the team

This is never anything any of us are ever going to be able to measure, but I also wonder how much of an effect on our talent the overall approach in the locker room has had. It's easy to say that Walters and company aren't bringing in enough talent, but what are they being handcuffed by? Agents aren't ignorant to this stuff, they know just as well as anyone else that Winnipeg isn't a team where you're going to get an opportunity.

It's easy to say we should target a guy like Eberhardt compared to a guy like Tim White and I wholeheartedly agree, but does a guy like Eberhardt want to come here? Or is it obvious that he's not going to get an opportunity for an elevated role in the lineup? Are we going to pay a guy like that when all we seem to do lately is pay guys for what they've done in the past?

It's easy to say get more players we can develop, but how many players are turning down offers for a practice roster spot because they're well versed in the concept that that's incredibly unlikely to lead to an opportunity here? For anyone new to the CFL, a practice roster spot is a low-salary stepping stone to hopefully more of an opportunity but what if the players are realizing that opportunity isn't going to come here?

It's easy to say draft better talent, but same thing. Is Connor Shay a bust? It's impossible to even tell at this point. We have no idea because we don't give him any opportunities. When Jaylen Smith is a free agent at the end of 2027, is he going to walk to a team that's going to give him a better opportunity?

Our franchise has become the retirement home, lifetime appointment type environment. That's the biggest problem of all and to me, that is why this all falls primarily on the coaching. The coaching staff has built that. The coaching staff has allowed that to be what they're content with. The other areas of this team aren't without blame by any stretch but when poor performance doesn't equate to consequences, nobody's playing for their job (or paycheque) and players are being allowed to coast off of resumes, this is what happens.

@Mike hits it on the head in terms of our locker room, coaching approach and the potential impact it has on us landing players.

A related issue is how do you fix this as @Noeller has asked many times.

Does Miller need to give MOS an ultimatum and would that work? IMO, Not sure.

6 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

@Mike hits it on the head in terms of our locker room, coaching approach and the potential impact it has on us landing players.

A related issue is how do you fix this as @Noeller has asked many times.

Does Miller need to give MOS an ultimatum and would that work? IMO, Not sure.

I think you start with cleaning house on the scouting staff.

8 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

I think you start with cleaning house on the scouting staff.

I think that would help. However is Osh guilty of not giving guys chances? Example, why not use Smith as a starter and use Kyrie or Ayers (pick one as the DI)? Why not give Shay reps to see what you have? Moxey and Nichols have struggled, why not see what Texada can give you?

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

But these issues have gone back several years now.... And there's never consequences.... See no one is absolving the players of the mistakes they make or the poor efforts but when you have seen things slipping for the same issues for years now you need to look at who's running the team and what's the issue there where the same problems are recurring.

I get there are no consequences, what would you think the consequences should be?

1 hour ago, Booch said:

after week 3...4 at most it should have been adressed

yeah find out...some I have seen it

I more interested on how many Canadians we are required to have on offence...and defence in the game

some of each for sure...also tho...if guys are not making plays...is it maybe cause they not good enough...or not good enough anymore?...issues that stem from coaches placing them on roster...do they not see it?...can they not evaluate properly?....are they too fixated on you need all these old in the tooth vets?

Lot's of blame to go around, and it's not isolated this yr...but for most the issues...poor scheme....poor prep....poor execution...all leads tothe same place...poor HC/coaching putting all this in place...and not deviating...and for most part since the 1st Cup flop and subsequent slide....there been basically 1 common denominator with the game day product...I'll let you all decide what that is, but it falls in line with what I been harping about for 3..4 yrs now in whats crippling us...

Who would you take out of the lineup and who would you replace them with? How does it make us better? Not being facetious just willing to hear out everyone's actual plan.

12 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

I think you start with cleaning house on the scouting staff.

Yeah the ginger pointing and whining just seems so pointless. I'm far more interested in fixing whatever the issue is.

I'm also willing to say: Just chill. It's a long season and there's going to be ups and downs. We're still above 500 and very much in the playoff picture. The next two games are quite winnable. Let's just take it one game at a time and hope for the best, which, for us as fans, is really all we can do.

1 minute ago, rebusrankin said:

I think that would help. However is Osh guilty of not giving guys chances? Example, why not use Smith as a starter and use Kyrie or Ayers (pick one as the DI)? Why not give Shay reps to see what you have? Moxey and Nichols have struggled, why not see what Texada caI think that would help. However is Osh guilty of not giving guys chances? Example, why not use Smith as a starter and use Kyrie or Ayers (pick one as the DI)? Why not give Shay reps to see what you have? Moxey and Nichols have struggled, why not see what Texada can give you?

Unwavering loyalty has been a MOS issue his entire tenure. Remember how long that terrible Kuale linebacker who committed boneheaded penalties stuck around for?

3 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

I think that would help. However is Osh guilty of not giving guys chances? Example, why not use Smith as a starter and use Kyrie or Ayers (pick one as the DI)? Why not give Shay reps to see what you have? Moxey and Nichols have struggled, why not see what Texada can give you?

Is he guilty of not giving people chances or does our talent suck? I havent seen much performance coming off our bench in a long time. If Walters and the scouts were stocking the cupboard properly, and I don't think they are, then maybe we may see improvement through change. Right now looking at our PR, anyone there that makes any sense? Singer perhaps but that is about it.

13 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I get there are no consequences, what would you think the consequences should be?

Sit guys down for a quarter, game, forever... Anything other than just leaving it as is.

31 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Is he guilty of not giving people chances or does our talent suck? I havent seen much performance coming off our bench in a long time. If Walters and the scouts were stocking the cupboard properly, and I don't think they are, then maybe we may see improvement through change. Right now looking at our PR, anyone there that makes any sense? Singer perhaps but that is about it.

You're getting into the unprovable to be honest.

The talent doesn't play because its not very good or the coach blocks guys. Is it one, the other or both?

Don't discount the kick in the ass factor. Like for example a vet like Moxey gets Sat down because he's useless doesn't that light a fire under his ass? Doesn't that light a fire under everyone else's ass because it might happen to them... Doesn't that light a fire under the backups ass knowing that maybe they will get a shot.

This country club we run where once you're tenured you're untouchable is damaging. Vets used to run the room? Great when your vets are that type but since that type isn't here or if they are are so far past their prime then the coaches need to take some of that responsibility back.

58 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

I think you start with cleaning house on the scouting staff.

I might give Jauch & Deslauriers a pass (for now) - this is only their 2nd year with the club and our scouting issues pre-date them. We also lost Sunderland to Hamilton, after his one and only season with us. I don't think anybody replaced him so that isn't helping matters.

McManus & Gulakow have each been here for 12 seasons now so I'd be looking at them first.

17 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Don't discount the kick in the ass factor. Like for example a vet like Moxey gets Sat down because he's useless doesn't that light a fire under his ass? Doesn't that light a fire under everyone else's ass because it might happen to them... Doesn't that light a fire under the backups ass knowing that maybe they will get a shot.

This country club we run where once you're tenured you're untouchable is damaging. Vets used to run the room? Great when your vets are that type but since that type isn't here or if they are are so far past their prime then the coaches need to take some of that responsibility back.

That can be said for MOS when it comes to letting the OC/DC choose their lineups. If they keep trotting out the same guys, then as HC, he needs to step in and say nope that's not working.

32 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Don't discount the kick in the ass factor. Like for example a vet like Moxey gets Sat down because he's useless doesn't that light a fire under his ass? Doesn't that light a fire under everyone else's ass because it might happen to them... Doesn't that light a fire under the backups ass knowing that maybe they will get a shot.

This country club we run where once you're tenured you're untouchable is damaging. Vets used to run the room? Great when your vets are that type but since that type isn't here or if they are are so far past their prime then the coaches need to take some of that responsibility back.

100%. bringing in roosevelt years back fixed our wr core and he didn't even have to play.

35 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Don't discount the kick in the ass factor. Like for example a vet like Moxey gets Sat down because he's useless doesn't that light a fire under his ass? Doesn't that light a fire under everyone else's ass because it might happen to them... Doesn't that light a fire under the backups ass knowing that maybe they will get a shot.

This country club we run where once you're tenured you're untouchable is damaging. Vets used to run the room? Great when your vets are that type but since that type isn't here or if they are are so far past their prime then the coaches need to take some of that responsibility back.

I think we can all agree with that.

33 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Don't discount the kick in the ass factor. Like for example a vet like Moxey gets Sat down because he's useless doesn't that light a fire under his ass? Doesn't that light a fire under everyone else's ass because it might happen to them... Doesn't that light a fire under the backups ass knowing that maybe they will get a shot.

This country club we run where once you're tenured you're untouchable is damaging. Vets used to run the room? Great when your vets are that type but since that type isn't here or if they are are so far past their prime then the coaches need to take some of that responsibility back.

At the risk of mashing up two completely separate Jimi Hendrix songs -

🎵 Excuse me...while I lose my guy....duh-dunn-dunn-DAHH....duh-dunn-dunn-DAHH.....Moxey! 🎵

Edited July 27Jul 27 by Super Duper Negatron

1 minute ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

At the risk of mashing up two completely separate Jimi Hendrix songs -

🎵 Excuse me...while I lose my guy....duh-dunn-dunn-DAHH....duh-dunn-dunn-DAHH.....Moxey! 🎵

2 hours ago, Mike said:

This is never anything any of us are ever going to be able to measure, but I also wonder how much of an effect on our talent the overall approach in the locker room has had. It's easy to say that Walters and company aren't bringing in enough talent, but what are they being handcuffed by? Agents aren't ignorant to this stuff, they know just as well as anyone else that Winnipeg isn't a team where you're going to get an opportunity.

It's easy to say we should target a guy like Eberhardt compared to a guy like Tim White and I wholeheartedly agree, but does a guy like Eberhardt want to come here? Or is it obvious that he's not going to get an opportunity for an elevated role in the lineup? Are we going to pay a guy like that when all we seem to do lately is pay guys for what they've done in the past?

It's easy to say get more players we can develop, but how many players are turning down offers for a practice roster spot because they're well versed in the concept that that's incredibly unlikely to lead to an opportunity here? For anyone new to the CFL, a practice roster spot is a low-salary stepping stone to hopefully more of an opportunity but what if the players are realizing that opportunity isn't going to come here?

It's easy to say draft better talent, but same thing. Is Connor Shay a bust? It's impossible to even tell at this point. We have no idea because we don't give him any opportunities. When Jaylen Smith is a free agent at the end of 2027, is he going to walk to a team that's going to give him a better opportunity?

Our franchise has become the retirement home, lifetime appointment type environment. That's the biggest problem of all and to me, that is why this all falls primarily on the coaching. The coaching staff has built that. The coaching staff has allowed that to be what they're content with. The other areas of this team aren't without blame by any stretch but when poor performance doesn't equate to consequences, nobody's playing for their job (or paycheque) and players are being allowed to coast off of resumes, this is what happens.

I've alluded to and touched on this before....and some similar things....not far off the mark on your take

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

@Mike hits it on the head in terms of our locker room, coaching approach and the potential impact it has on us landing players.

A related issue is how do you fix this as @Noeller has asked many times.

Does Miller need to give MOS an ultimatum and would that work? IMO, Not sure.

he did

1 hour ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

I think you start with cleaning house on the scouting staff.

not if the type of player and attributes they are asking for coming from coaching tho...thats what I wanna know...where is the disconnect

A good example was Holm...we cut him out right,,,not good enough and brought back due to injury,,,was defaulted in and all of a sudden when he got to play was praised and had the best feet since Fred Astaire...where was that assessment prior to that?...and who knows how many other instances has that occured but nobody gotthe good fortune of a vet slug getting hurt?

Most recent the Jenkins/Reese situ....this isnt isolated...ho9w many games did Josh Johnson get when apparent he just wasn't good...Mitchel after him....on and on...Singer now...outperformed everyone in camp...

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

I think that would help. However is Osh guilty of not giving guys chances? Example, why not use Smith as a starter and use Kyrie or Ayers (pick one as the DI)? Why not give Shay reps to see what you have? Moxey and Nichols have struggled, why not see what Texada can give you?

truth..

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

I get there are no consequences, what would you think the consequences should be?

Who would you take out of the lineup and who would you replace them with? How does it make us better? Not being facetious just willing to hear out everyone's actual plan.

the bench...or apple and roadmap is a good start for if anything a couplegames...allows the slacker to get message and 2 games gives a failry good idea if the new guy has any upside

as to who...well Corcoran out for Clercius is an up grade...Singer tho for the Cobb spot easily....Cobb can stay on as he actually possesses some positive attributes and is athletic...doable by either dropping the imort center as it is no better than Eli...or one of the import linebackers...

Korn as well is pointless...add the Global kid to see what he has....Peterson would give us more usefulness

The big ger issue and you allude to it in a different post our PR is total crap...and we keep guys with no chance and no better than what we have for no apparent reason as opposed to up grading and continually bringing in guys...now is that the HC saying we good...The G.M refusing to accommodate a coaches' ask?....thats the quation but based on many many Osh decisions in roster, in game decisions...inability to accept fault...I think it's a coach issue

I pretty sure a group of 4 or 5 of us on this forum were handed the keys we could do a better job @wbbfan @JuranBoldenRules @GCn20 @Mike @SpeedFlex27 looking at you guys...amoung a few others

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Don't discount the kick in the ass factor. Like for example a vet like Moxey gets Sat down because he's useless doesn't that light a fire under his ass? Doesn't that light a fire under everyone else's ass because it might happen to them... Doesn't that light a fire under the backups ass knowing that maybe they will get a shot.

This country club we run where once you're tenured you're untouchable is damaging. Vets used to run the room? Great when your vets are that type but since that type isn't here or if they are are so far past their prime then the coaches need to take some of that responsibility back.

nobody is worried about losing a job here...hence the malaise and lack of urgency....Coach included...

You sit one vet and let it be known it was performance related....I guarantee you see a different attitude and vigor thru whole squad

51 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

I might give Jauch & Deslauriers a pass (for now) - this is only their 2nd year with the club and our scouting issues pre-date them. We also lost Sunderland to Hamilton, after his one and only season with us. I don't think anybody replaced him so that isn't helping matters.

McManus & Gulakow have each been here for 12 seasons now so I'd be looking at them first.

That can be said for MOS when it comes to letting the OC/DC choose their lineups. If they keep trotting out the same guys, then as HC, he needs to step in and say nope that's not working.

they arent picking the lineup tho..input thats it...no HC with an ounce of smarts would dothat...as in the end its all on him....that be career suicide...then again maybe Osh is doing that cause he truly to me doesnt seem like the smartest knife in the drawer. HC just ever do that in my experince

17 hours ago, Noeller said:

I'm not wholesale against a change but I'd sure love to hear who's a better option out there....

At one time, I thought that Khari Jones would be a good head coach, but he hasn't done well with the opportunities he's had, but maybe he walked into no-win situations.

I’d like to know how O’Shea got talked into bringing Condell on board. Ignoring our power back and the gameplans we use don’t seem like things O’Shea would like. We have three starting recs under 180lbs and four under 6’0 tall. We were bullies in the Grey Cup years so it’s crazy to see how much that has changed.

1 hour ago, sweep the leg said:

I’d like to know how O’Shea got talked into bringing Condell on board. Ignoring our power back and the gameplans we use don’t seem like things O’Shea would like. We have three starting recs under 180lbs and four under 6’0 tall. We were bullies in the Grey Cup years so it’s crazy to see how much that has changed.

Also on the dline and oline...and i dont think he gets talked into anything or we wouldn't be in this situation

For all the "talk" its a collective thing he strikes me as the control kinda guy at end of day..his way or no way

What bends my brain a bit, is the guys who just keep bringing it: Demski, Brady O. Willy J, Vaval - huge props to players like that

4 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

You're getting into the unprovable to be honest.

The talent doesn't play because its not very good or the coach blocks guys. Is it one, the other or both?