3 turds plus cranky honker don’t say roster management edition

[17to85]

But do we know the talent isn't there if the coaches don't use it? This still comes back to your assumption that the coaches are playing the best guys they have... which is hugely flawed as evidenced by numerous situations in the past 11 years of Mike O'Shea's tenure as head coach. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

But do we know the talent isn't there if the coaches don't use it? This still comes back to your assumption that the coaches are playing the best guys they have... which is hugely flawed as evidenced by numerous situations in the past 11 years of Mike O'Shea's tenure as head coach. 

This is an endless loop though.  How would YOU ever know if the best guys are playing?  For all we know some guy who was on the practice roster here in 95 would have beat Milt Stegall's record if he got the chance.  But he didn't, got cut and has been sitting on a couch for 30 years.  Maybe he'd be a better TSN analyst too.  But Cal Murphy never gave him a shot.

[Booch]

I wouldnt say all-stars are being sat over the scrubs...but there definitely is better talent albeit inexperienced sitting in lieu of lesser talent...and some guys getting reps over others on roster whom shouldn't...and that is I think direct relation to the HC preference

Experienced is gained with live play...not practice so we have to make the concerted effort to see what we have

That being said...some the guys who knows....could possibly play at an all-star level but we can't know until given the shot....especially when we have a pretty big swath of guys who are under performing, or just not good enough

Now the questions are...is it poor and inadequate coaching not getting any player properly prepared? Is it laziness and the belief that "the room will sort it out"...I also look at that as neglection by coaches and not knowing your room.....is it the current staff have a poor eye for talent, and what intangibles/skills are more important than others?.....or is it we just have a real load of crap players now, and the coach has no practical options so just going with what used to work?

First step is moving guys around, bringing some on...moving some out, and it seems we in the process of that now to a certain extent, so that's a good thing.....Of the talent is noticeably better...we in games consistantly but still making poor in game adjustments/decisions....well then time to focus on coaching or way we going about stuff....and if it's just still the same ol same ol....likely combo of everything and maybe a lil purge is required

I do like the steps taken this week, but also wanna see Kyle bringing guys in with some urgency....and with some legit skill

Edited Thursday at 08:00 PM by Booch

[17to85]

44 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

This is an endless loop though.  How would YOU ever know if the best guys are playing?  For all we know some guy who was on the practice roster here in 95 would have beat Milt Stegall's record if he got the chance.  But he didn't, got cut and has been sitting on a couch for 30 years.  Maybe he'd be a better TSN analyst too.  But Cal Murphy never gave him a shot.

Yeah I'm not gonna pretend to know everything, but I do know that we've dressed guys who haven't taken a single snap in a game, I know situations like hecht at safety... Hurl at MLB... these guys don't always dress the best. Guys like kolankowski I'd be trying damned hard to replace rather than them being bullet proof as one example. 

[wbbfan]

26 minutes ago, Booch said:

I wouldnt say all-stars are being sat over the scrubs...but there definitely is better talent albeit inexperienced sitting in lieu of lesser talent...and some guys getting reps over others on roster whom shouldn't...and that is I think direct relation to the HC preference

Experienced is gained with live play...not practice so we have to make the concerted effort to see what we have

That being said...some the guys who knows....could possibly play at an all-star level but we can't know until given the shot....especially when we have a pretty big swath of guys who are under performing, or just not good enough

Now the questions are...is it poor and inadequate coaching not getting any player properly prepared? Is it laziness and the belief that "the room will sort it out"...I also look at that as neglection by coaches and not knowing your room.....is it the current staff have a poor eye for talent, and what intangibles/skills are more important than others?.....or is it we just have a real load of crap players now, and the coach has no practical options so just going with what used to work?

First step is moving guys around, bringing some on...moving some out, and it seems we in the process of that now to a certain extent, so that's a good thing.....Of the talent is noticeably better...we in games consistantly but still making poor in game adjustments/decisions....well then time to focus on coaching or way we going about stuff....and if it's just still the same ol same ol....likely combo of everything and maybe a lil purge is required

I do like the steps taken this week, but also wanna see Kyle bringing guys in with some urgency....and with some legit skill

Yeah, we can't say that. 

What we can say is that our commitment to Fodder has prevented us from getting all-star-level players. Of course, we could not have filled all our gaps with All-Stars the last 2 years. But we could've filled a couple. The way we run the roster has taken us out of the free agent market. 

On top of that, it takes us out of the ability to develop younger guys. 

Right now, I think Tony Jones is going to be in the conversation for All-Star at Lber. (flawed system as it is) He's on track for 111 tackles and 9 sacks. He only got a shot here because Biggie got hurt. Biggie stayed healthy but ineffective last year. Tony Jones doesn't happen. Now he's not a great player or a top 5 lber imo, but he is worlds better than late stages biggie was. That camp was loaded with extremely talented young Lbers worth developing. But we cut 'em to ride with Biggie. We are still sitting on Ayers, unwilling to give him a role/chance. 

We've all seen that with long-in-the-tooth vets. But also with random non-bomber vets. Josh Johnsons, Tyquan Glass', Rock Cartwrights, Kelvin McKnights, the marine etc. So many guys get all the rope in the world only for us to eventually admit defeat when we could've made moves monthes earlier and improved instantly. 

 100%, guys need to play in-game to see what they can do. We hit diminishing returns so hard on guys riding the bench. 

I think it's most of those points. We aren't doing a great job of developing guys, and guys aren't chomping at the bit for spots because it doesn't happen unless an injury forces it. 

 

We need to be cycling imp WRs especially. This is Sterns 3rd season in the cfl. We can't protect him from competition and he isn't winning his spot. 

[Noeller]

25 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Yeah I'm not gonna pretend to know everything.....

I've known you for 25 years and that's the first I'm hearing of this......

[17to85]

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

I've known you for 25 years and that's the first I'm hearing of this......

Key word, pretend

[Mike]

5 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

This is an endless loop though.  How would YOU ever know if the best guys are playing?  For all we know some guy who was on the practice roster here in 95 would have beat Milt Stegall's record if he got the chance.  But he didn't, got cut and has been sitting on a couch for 30 years.  Maybe he'd be a better TSN analyst too.  But Cal Murphy never gave him a shot.

Counter argument

 

jake thomas

[Tracker]

6 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Yep not a great look at all.  Our GM needs to get to work.

That's fair. I just don't see the talent we are leaving off the field, or at least not enough of it to make a difference and change us into a Grey Cup team. We are nowhere near that right now no matter who we dress and where. That's on the GM and I agree is being made worse by the coaches.

My argument that dissing coaches when we are winning is not right and I stand by that. When it starts creating losses you damn skippy I want better coaching and GMing. The only metric I judge a Coach or GM on is wins and losses because everyone has their formula that we may not understand to get the wins. However, when losses pile up because of your methods, you need to answer that bell. Right now I think Walters is our biggest problem, but if Miller came down from on high and decided to clean house tomorrow I'm OK with that as long as it rebounds our season.

The Bombers coach(es) were winning last year and the year before but were rightfully criticized for the slow rot that was setting in. Those levelling criticisms correctly predicted that the team was spiraling downward due to coaching issues and these were not being addressed in any meaningful way. And so it has come to pass in 2025. 

[GCn20]

On 2025-07-31 at 8:43 PM, Tracker said:

The Bombers coach(es) were winning last year and the year before but were rightfully criticized for the slow rot that was setting in. Those levelling criticisms correctly predicted that the team was spiraling downward due to coaching issues and these were not being addressed in any meaningful way. And so it has come to pass in 2025. 

No...what came to pass is that our skill level was vastly reduced. Roster management is an issue that was minor when our GM and scouts doing their job. Now it is a bigger issue because we don't have the talent to overcome these coaching quirks

[Booch]

3 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

No...what came to pass is that our skill level was vastly reduced. Roster management is an issue that was minor when our GM and scouts doing their job. Now it is a bigger issue because we don't have the talent to overcome these coaching quirks

But also on the flip....hold on to guys past their usefulness....or better days....and dont reload on the fly unless forced due to injury and defections.....Thats not on the Scout nd G.M cause guys were cut...TC here is short...and for most part even ineffective so sometimes you just gotta make the moves....other teams do

I agree tho....we lost some good scouting avenues...and sadly one the better up and comers we had who went unheralded left due to why bother doing it here when your work just gets discarded for trash coach's fav's

We relied too much on elite talent in their prime and not reloading when we could have with depth to push and challenge...or even take over and have the vet as depth...looked backward too much at past success and not forward....and we all know in football a guy can fall off the ledge in no time....especially once the clock turns over 30...32 yrs

[GCn20]

3 minutes ago, Booch said:

But also on the flip....hold on to guys past their usefulness....or better days....and dont reload on the fly unless forced due to injury and defections.....Thats not on the Scout nd G.M cause guys were cut...TC here is short...and for most part even ineffective so sometimes you just gotta make the moves....other teams do

I agree tho....we lost some good scouting avenues...and sadly one the better up and comers we had who went unheralded left due to why bother doing it here when your work just gets discarded for trash coach's fav's

We relied too much on elite talent in their prime and not reloading when we could have with depth to push and challenge...or even take over and have the vet as depth...looked backward too much at past success and not forward....and we all know in football a guy can fall off the ledge in no time....especially once the clock turns over 30...32 yrs

I acknowledge that this is happening as well.  No doubt about out it. You look at who won us the game last night and it was young guys like Vaval that did it.

[Booch]

4 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I acknowledge that this is happening as well.  No doubt about out it. You look at who won us the game last night and it was young guys like Vaval that did it.

Yup...Person addition...Griffin addition and the reworking of Kramdi and Parker..J.Jones added to LB mix made a huge difference and allowed players like WJ..Vaughters...T.Jones..Nichols..Holm and Adams to really benefit....Kelly back as well was a plus...I think we gonna be okay on defense...couple lil adjustments...figure out the one db spot...minimize or eliminate Thomas and play that more aggressive attack style like we did save for that 3rd quarter fall back to our old scheme and we can real good...gonna need them

I think offensively we screwed for the yr and we gonna have to scratch and claw and win ugly for any chance of wins...Reciever is a joke...oline is in shambles...OC is I think way over his head and not helping

In hindsight maybe it was best we cut bait with Kolo...Thomas...Kramdi and used that 450k toward Dobson and Lawler...Give Eli and or Wallace every chance to play center...people like to say Eli has never took the job...but was never offered either...u start him 18 games...he'd be more than fine...and or we drafted a center or targeted one in FA...the season trajectory would look way different for sure...

[Mark H.]

OL will get better, assuming big Stan is not out for the season. First game, they were a strength. Also, TO has weaknesses but they are not on the DL.

[17to85]

When guys are obviously not cutting it (ie. Kolankowski) you should be giving other players opportunities to try.

[Goalie]

18 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

When guys are obviously not cutting it (ie. Kolankowski) you should be giving other players opportunities to try.

Would that apply to QBs who throw 0 TDs and 3 picks? 

[Booch]

35 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Would that apply to QBs who throw 0 TDs and 3 picks? 

Or one that has 7 tds and 8 picks...and a sub 80% efficiency 

[Tracker]

3 hours ago, GCn20 said:

No...what came to pass is that our skill level was vastly reduced. Roster management is an issue that was minor when our GM and scouts doing their job. Now it is a bigger issue because we don't have the talent to overcome these coaching quirks

Disagree to an extent. Talent in its prime can compensate for inept coaching and roster management for a time but inevitably you see what we saw for the past 2+ seasons. We yahoos in this forum saw it and commented on it but we were voices crying in the wilderness.

Edited 27 minutes ago by Tracker

[Goalie]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

Or one that has 7 tds and 8 picks...and a sub 80% efficiency 

Yeah. They both are terrible. But one is probably hurt and the other has gotten worse since he’s been back. I mean Zach was pulled last game. Streveler should have been last night. Pretty simple no. It’s not your guy vs their guy here. I mean. What the **** does collaros have to do with last night ?