#ForTheW

For Booch: 

 

Edited June 7, 20232 yr by JCon

9 minutes ago, Mark F said:

how is it possible, for a fan, during the game, to know that the centre made a bad protection call?

that made no sense. 

 

I liked when he was supposed to BAMF his way 15 fifteen feet back and to the left like an X-Man to 'do more on the play' never mind the guy he was already blocking, not like that guy was after Zach or anything.

7 hours ago, Booch said:

well apparently Jagared Davis in Ham was available.....

I dont hate this.

14 hours ago, DTonOB said:

17 sacks on pass plays, 1 on a run this year. 8.0% of dropbacks.
For Collaros 28 sacks on passing plays last year, 1 on a running play (CFL quirk). The other Bombers QBs were sacked 5 times.

5.6% of dropbacks in 2022, 8.0% of dropbacks in 2023...a substantial increase.

I haven't caught up charting pressures but Zach is under pressure a little less than last season's 28% of dropbacks. 

Thanks DTonOB! So in short the pressures we are allowing are a little bit worse of an outcome than last year but we are allowing less pressure. That screams to me of missed assignments rather than our guys being over matched. Throw that BC game out and I think we are in a pretty good place with our OL they just need a little sharpening.

Edited July 26, 20232 yr by GCn20

I'm not sure how anyone could have watched the first half of that Edmonton game and tell me that we don't have protection issues right now.... serious issues. 

13 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Thanks DTonOB! So in short the pressures we are allowing are a little bit worse of an outcome than last year but we are allowing less pressure. That screams to me of missed assignments rather than our guys being over matched. Throw that BC game out and I think we are in a pretty good place with our OL they just need a little sharpening.

Yeah...receiving corp has been in some flux....Schoen not 100% all year....after the break...with Likely a healthy Lawler/Demski/Schoen/Bailey/Woli set....I am sure you will see all of a sudden a night and day look....ZC getting ball out quicker...Moving around more and just finding those spots like he has so consistently the last 3 yrs...thats not been seen as much this yr, and things just seem out of sync...Bet that is a blip and in the rear view moving forward

Just now, Noeller said:

I'm not sure how anyone could have watched the first half of that Edmonton game and tell me that we don't have protection issues right now.... serious issues. 

what about the second half?....maybe we made some adjustments to what the Elks did, that we didn't see before...and hence didn't scheme for?...lots at play when a particular unit is being iffy....tells me we made the adjustments...and have seen that in several games this yr, save for that BC debacle...and even then late in the game we still had a chance to win if we got a break some where...or a big play

Teams have tons of film...and homework on us, as we have sent out the same unit pretty much for 3 yrs....so teams have looked for and found some cracks to exploit....they adapted and evolved to scheme us better...now it's our turn to recognize whats going on, and evolve and adapt right back....I'm sure as we speak things are being installed

I think the effectiveness of the downfield passing game, which I'd expect to start clicking soon, will also help the pass pro. When ZC8 has it firing on all cylinders, it forces a D to spread out more.

It WAS clicking just fine through the first two games, then everything went to ****..... can it be pulled out of the ditch? Or has everyone figured us out now...?

Just now, Noeller said:

It WAS clicking just fine through the first two games, then everything went to ****..... can it be pulled out of the ditch? Or has everyone figured us out now...?

There is too much talent for it to stay in the ditch.  

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

Thanks DTonOB! So in short the pressures we are allowing are a little bit worse of an outcome than last year but we are allowing less pressure. That screams to me of missed assignments rather than our guys being over matched. Throw that BC game out and I think we are in a pretty good place with our OL they just need a little sharpening.

I seem to recall the early transition to Kona at Center last season after Couture was injured did not go super smoothly and reflected badly on Neufeld in particular, there was an increase in O-line breakdowns and Zach paid the price in a number of games.  Comparing this year to last may not give a clear picture of the worsening protection over time we suspect has happened.  DT may have to go back to 2021 stats. to get a better comparison of deteriorating protection.

build it from center out, and if the issues still are there...re-visit whats going on...I bet a bigger...more physical center....with huge upside, not to mention pedigree fixes a lot of what looks like poor play...plain and simple...Its one small simple tweak, and wouldnt upset the apple cart...also its a player who has been here, and played with all the guys on the oline for parts of 3 seasons now....so he will be familiar with everyone and everything 

3 minutes ago, Booch said:

build it from center out, and if the issues still are there...re-visit whats going on...I bet a bigger...more physical center....with huge upside, not to mention pedigree fixes a lot of what looks like poor play...plain and simple...Its one small simple tweak, and wouldnt upset the apple cart...also its a player who has been here, and played with all the guys on the oline for parts of 3 seasons now....so he will be familiar with everyone and everything 

Eli signed a 3 year contract this year, I think that says a lot about expectations for him. It's literally only a matter of time before he gets the start

I always expected that kola would start the year, but 100% expect that by the end of the year Eli would have the job.

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

I'm not sure how anyone could have watched the first half of that Edmonton game and tell me that we don't have protection issues right now.... serious issues. 

There will be times in games, or even whole games, where an OL might struggle. However, one has to look at the overall play objectively over a season and even over the course of a whole game. Cherry picking a quarter or a half of football and extrapolating that out as having serious issues is not very realistic. Teams will throw looks at us, and sometimes we will struggle with them until we adjust. That's football.

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

There is too much talent for it to stay in the ditch.  

I think suggesting it is in the ditch is overstating things. Sure we are not putting up 45 a game anymore, but our passing game is just fine.

1 hour ago, Fatty Liver said:

I seem to recall the early transition to Kona at Center last season after Couture was injured did not go super smoothly and reflected badly on Neufeld in particular, there was an increase in O-line breakdowns and Zach paid the price in a number of games.  Comparing this year to last may not give a clear picture of the worsening protection over time we suspect has happened.  DT may have to go back to 2021 stats. to get a better comparison of deteriorating protection.

Or....we could just compare to last year, a year we led in almost every offensive category and had the MOP QB and say if we have the same protection as last year we will be just fine. 

13 minutes ago, MOBomberFan said:

Eli signed a 3 year contract this year, I think that says a lot about expectations for him. It's literally only a matter of time before he gets the start

For sure. We didn't bring him back for nothing.

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

It WAS clicking just fine through the first two games, then everything went to ****..... can it be pulled out of the ditch? Or has everyone figured us out now...?

If anyone is expecting us to pass for 400 a game and put up 45 pts a game all season they are setting themselves up for disappointment. We lead the league in most offensive categories right now. I think we are OK.

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Or....we could just compare to last year, a year we led in almost every offensive category and had the MOP QB and say if we have the same protection as last year we will be just fine. 

For sure. We didn't bring him back for nothing.

and likely better with Lawler here, and BO and Schoen having a solid yr under them

1 minute ago, Booch said:

and likely better with Lawler here, and BO and Schoen having a solid yr under them

For sure. Our OL still has dominant talent throughout. Just still ironing out some wrinkles and maybe needs a change up here and there, but honestly it is NOT the area...not even close....fans should be worried about.

Just now, GCn20 said:

For sure. Our OL still has dominant talent throughout. Just still ironing out some wrinkles and maybe needs a change up here and there, but honestly it is NOT the area...not even close....fans should be worried about.

agreed....and why....cause we have depth behind them...on the roster (Eli Dobson), as well on the PR (Richmond)...the area is d-line where as it stands we have the Jeff's....and nothing....sure Bennett is on the roster, but thats by default basically because...well we have no depth...We may spill Walker out to the edge, but as we have the rostered configured that mean we need to use Lawson and Thomas....which isn't ideal at all.....but.....we do have Fox who would be excellent in the middle, but luckily we deploy a DA fullback to take 10 snaps a game where basically you could have used a number of players already on the roster to do that job...remember he is an American...with minimal experience even coming up to Canada...and that was at D-End and linebacker, and just picked up FB play 2nd week of TC....Surely we could have a guy who has been playing Canadian style ball his whole life do the same thing...no?....Thats what Miller was coming out of College...a Linebacker....it can be done lol

The amazing stuff is Brady Olivera is on pace for 1350 yards 

3 hours ago, Jpan85 said:

The amazing stuff is Brady Olivera is on pace for 1350 yards 

Only counts if he gets most of it in the 1st quarter 

2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

Only counts if he gets most of it in the 1st quarter 

he needs to stop easing into gams

Luv Brady O .....he's very effective....It would be nice to have him punish the opposition d right off the bat BUT I believe he's more effective in the latter part of the game, when he can destroy defences when they're bagged and gasping for air....In the end I think it's a saw off early or latter stages, when he unleashes his game, just as long as we come away with points and are on the winning end

12 minutes ago, Stickem said:

Luv Brady O .....he's very effective....It would be nice to have him punish the opposition d right off the bat BUT I believe he's more effective in the latter part of the game, when he can destroy defences when they're bagged and gasping for air....In the end I think it's a saw off early or latter stages, when he unleashes his game, just as long as we come away with points and are on the winning end

Teams know they can't let us run in the 1st Q or it will get ugly fast. If we can run on them throughout the whole game we are gonna be hanging 50 on them. They game plan to shut down our run and force us into 2nd and longs and hope their secondary can hold. By the 2nd half they just can't stay with the physical punishment of doing that and Brady goes off. It's a pick your poison kind of thing and that is a sign of a well constructed offence.

15 minutes ago, Stickem said:

Luv Brady O .....he's very effective....It would be nice to have him punish the opposition d right off the bat BUT I believe he's more effective in the latter part of the game, when he can destroy defences when they're bagged and gasping for air....In the end I think it's a saw off early or latter stages, when he unleashes his game, just as long as we come away with points and are on the winning end

The only chance teams have against us is to eliminate our run game early and get a ton of pressure on Zac. So far BC is the only team able to do that. Ottawa game was just a snowball of momentum and some good bounces going Ottawa's way late in the game.

44 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Teams know they can't let us run in the 1st Q or it will get ugly fast. If we can run on them throughout the whole game we are gonna be hanging 50 on them. They game plan to shut down our run and force us into 2nd and longs and hope their secondary can hold. By the 2nd half they just can't stay with the physical punishment of doing that and Brady goes off. It's a pick your poison kind of thing and that is a sign of a well constructed offence.

The only chance teams have against us is to eliminate our run game early and get a ton of pressure on Zac. So far BC is the only team able to do that. Ottawa game was just a snowball of momentum and some good bounces going Ottawa's way late in the game.

yeah...we choked a bit in the Ottawa game at the end...but had multiple things go wrong to contribute to that..Castillo missing his first FG and convert...the BO fumble....the pick six..Schoen drop....for most part all very uncharacteristic things.....and yes...you still have to make the plays to win, and the other team is trying too...but all those things lined up just right that particular day to allow that...Ottawa had done nothing all game pretty much until that last 2+ minutes

Those things, the easing up on the gas... and that weak roster we put out with minimal defense depth (which several of us moaned about and could be the demise that game) came to fruition and caused the collapse....lesson learned....move on....well I hope it was learned

Lot's of things led to the Ott. lose, one of which was a tired front 7. That is my biggest concerns so far this year, our starters are pretty good but we are razor thin with depth, and with Habba injured I question the quality of the depth.

I was hoping we would bring in an end over the bye, but alas we seem to be rolling with only Bennet still.

17 minutes ago, Booch said:

yeah...we choked a bit in the Ottawa game at the end...but had multiple things go wrong to contribute to that..Castillo missing his first FG and convert...the BO fumble....the pick six..Schoen drop....for most part all very uncharacteristic things.....and yes...you still have to make the plays to win, and the other team is trying too...but all those things lined up just right that particular day to allow that...Ottawa had done nothing all game pretty much until that last 2+ minutes

Those things, the easing up on the gas... and that weak roster we put out with minimal defense depth (which several of us moaned about and could be the demise that game) came to fruition and caused the collapse....lesson learned....move on....well I hope it was learned

Yea...I don't see that as any indication of anything other than we let things snowball. I doubt that ever happens again with this group. It was actually a good lesson for them that even a game that you are thoroughly dominating for 55 minutes can turn on a dime if you let a team hang around and they get a couple bounces. Old Mo is a cruel mistress sometimes.

Edited July 27, 20232 yr by GCn20