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TrueBlue4ever

The MBB All-Time Blue Bomber team

Rich

RESULTS

Coach:

GM:

QB:

RB:

FB:

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G:

G:

T:

T:

SB:

SB:

WR:ÔĽŅ

WR:

REC:

DT: Doug Brown

DT: Stan Mikawos

DE: Herb Gray

DE: Tony Norman

ILB: Greg Battle

ILB: Barrin Simpson

OLB: Tyrone Jones

OLB: James West

CB: Rod Hill

CB: Less Browne

HB: Juran Bolden

HB: Jonathan Hefney

S: Paul Bennett

PK:

P:

RET:

ST:

Message added by Rich

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1 hour ago, sweep the leg said:

Rod Hill was the best cb I've seen play for the Bombers. Less Browne would be #2. Bolden was amazing, but wasn't he mostly a db?

Yeah, those 2 were the best. Imagine trying to throw deep on the Bombers? Shut down corners on both sides. Wow. I can say that David Shaw & Roy Bennett were damned fine corners as well. As was Vince Phason going back to the late 70's. 

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2 hours ago, White Out said:

Bob Cameron is the epitome of "Bomber-ness" but Ryan was obviously a better punter skill wise. Tough call.

Back at the old stadium in the Chairman's lounge, I once saw Bob Cameron chug a full beer, get up on the table and plank (I think thats what the kids called it), and hold himself up there for almost a minute.  This wasn't more than 6-7 years ago, so he would have been in his late 50's.  That was legendary stuff!  Then he went and crushed another beer with Walby!

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17 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

No jumping ahead!

Sorry!

So is this just going to be open discussion... or will you list a poll for each position and we can vote?

I'd have to agree with the consensus that Hill and Browne should be the winners... with Bolden as a close third...

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5 hours ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Yes but more my point was how integral he was to our team at that time. 

He was a great punter & that was his job as well as holding for converts & placekicking. His punting made him stand out. Not throwing the ball.  He never actually suited up & played qb but he'd throw the odd pass out of punt formation or from a botched snap on a field goal. I think he was our best punter ever but I don't know what you mean as integral. As in other ways

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20 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

He was a great punter & that was his job as well as holding for converts & placekicking. His punting made him stand out. Not throwing the ball.  He never actually suited up & played qb but he'd throw the odd pass out of punt formation or from a botched snap on a field goal. I think he was our best punter ever but I don't know what you mean as integral. As in other ways

Reliability as we knew he was going to get the job done (best punter ever into the wind, no small feat in Canadian weather), longevity as we didn't have to worry about filling the punters position for many years, great teammate, good community member . . .  

Edited by HardCoreBlue
Added best punter into the wind.

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9 hours ago, bearpants said:

Sorry!

So is this just going to be open discussion... or will you list a poll for each position and we can vote?

I'd have to agree with the consensus that Hill and Browne should be the winners... with Bolden as a close third...

I will throw out a bunch of names for nomination at the start, and then wait for other suggestions. I will then put out a formal poll on a Friday and people have one week to vote from that list. I will try to give a brief bio of each candidate so people can analyze the options. So tomorrow I will actually put out a list of candidates to vote on, and people will have until next Friday to vote.

At the same time as the voting list comes out, I will post the next list of candidates for the another post for nominations for the next category. Debate and discussion can take place on the "nomination" post over the course of the week, and then a formal voting list will occur the next Friday. So one week to nominate and discuss, one week to vote. I will keep those posts separate, so the voting post can be just for voting, to keep things clean. If I find that the voting happens quickly, I will shorten the voting timeline to expedite things (maybe have nominations and discussion from Monday to Friday, and voting from Friday to Sunday - I'll play it by ear as we go along).

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Glad to see that consideration is being given to yesteryear players. There are many during my younger years that come to mind for consideration but must state the game was much different back then....consider Herb Gray, Buddy Tinsley, Leo Lewis Jerry James to mention a few.

An interesting exercise but think the eras of football cannot be compared equally

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20 hours ago, Old Bomber Fan said:

Glad to see that consideration is being given to yesteryear players. There are many during my younger years that come to mind for consideration but must state the game was much different back then....consider Herb Gray, Buddy Tinsley, Leo Lewis Jerry James to mention a few.

An interesting exercise but think the eras of football cannot be compared equally

I will try to reflect that in the bios. Hopefully listing divisional and CFL all-star nods will reflect how they stacked up against their peers at that time.

Edited by TrueBlue4ever

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10 hours ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Reliability as we knew he was going to get the job done (best punter ever into the wind, no small feat in Canadian weather), longevity as we didn't have to worry about filling the punters position for many years, great teammate, good community member . . .  

I thought you meant that he did more than punting as in played other positions. 

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On ‚Äé05‚Äé/‚Äé12‚Äé/‚Äé2018 at 1:55 PM, TrueBlue4ever said:

Bolden usually covered the opposition’s best receiver so he was interchangeable, but he was listed as a corner, so I will stick with him in that spot. 

Overruling myself, I have seen places where Bolden was listed as a halfback, so I will consider him for that position instead. of at cornerback, so he will not appear on this week's list of nominees.

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Bolden was unique...he was a corner by trade...and played there...but they also used him to basically play man on a teams best receiver, and actually had no real "defined" position tho may have took up a space on a depth chart...he just played cover man

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On ‚Äé04‚Äé/‚Äé12‚Äé/‚Äé2018 at 10:30 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

My answer:

 

Corners:  Rod Hill

                      Less Browne

Other players that deserve consideration are Paul Brule, Doug Strong, Roy Bennett, Paul Williams & Gord Rowland. **** Thornton was a Safety. 

Bennett will get listed. I show Rowland as a Linebacker/running back, so he won't be on this list. Paul Brule was listed as a free safety (although he makes mention of being converted to a cornerback in an interview) so I will consider him in the "safety" category (as I will for Thornton, as I indicated earlier). Paul Williams had his greatest success with Saskatchewan (his 2 all-star nods came while playing for the Roughies) so I will exclude him due to little info on his Winnipeg contributions. Doug Strong played 5 years and had 15 total Ints., with zero team award nominations, divisional or CFL all-star nods, so in my humble opinion he falls short of the "all-time great" nominees. But I thank you for bringing each case to my attention. Furthermore, if anyone feels I have omitted a player in the final "voting" thread (coming soon!) I invite you make  a case for them for inclusion in your own response. Glad to see people invested in this exercise.

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9 minutes ago, Booch said:

Bolden was unique...he was a corner by trade...and played there...but they also used him to basically play man on a teams best receiver, and actually had no real "defined" position tho may have took up a space on a depth chart...he just played cover man

On a club website they list him as a halfback during his exceptional 2001 season, so I will defer to that source, but he was a true "rover" who would play whatever position the opposing team's best receiver was at, and he was a true "shutdown" DB because teams actively avoided throwing to him because he was a threat to pick off every pass. He "only" had 6 ints. that year, because teams only threw in his direction maybe once a game at most. Thanks for you input - he will be featured in the "halfback" nominees for sure.

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4 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

On a club website they list him as a halfback during his exceptional 2001 season, so I will defer to that source, but he was a true "rover" who would play whatever position the opposing team's best receiver was at, and he was a true "shutdown" DB because teams actively avoided throwing to him because he was a threat to pick off every pass. He "only" had 6 ints. that year, because teams only threw in his direction maybe once a game at most. Thanks for you input - he will be featured in the "halfback" nominees for sure.

He had the biggest pick of the year though to clinch the East Final

 

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5 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Bennett will get listed. I show Rowland as a Linebacker/running back, so he won't be on this list. Paul Brule was listed as a free safety (although he makes mention of being converted to a cornerback in an interview) so I will consider him in the "safety" category (as I will for Thornton, as I indicated earlier). Paul Williams had his greatest success with Saskatchewan (his 2 all-star nods came while playing for the Roughies) so I will exclude him due to little info on his Winnipeg contributions. Doug Strong played 5 years and had 15 total Ints., with zero team award nominations, divisional or CFL all-star nods, so in my humble opinion he falls short of the "all-time great" nominees. But I thank you for bringing each case to my attention. Furthermore, if anyone feels I have omitted a player in the final "voting" thread (coming soon!) I invite you make  a case for them for inclusion in your own response. Glad to see people invested in this exercise.

Williams was a versatile athlete. He could play wingback ( now called slot) or corner & returned  KO's.  He also celebrated in the end zone a very unique dance after he scored a TD with what he called, "The Winnipeg Wiggle". When he played in Winnipeg he subbed on both sides of the ball. When he was traded to the Riders they moved him full time to corner where he became an all star. I wish there was a video of his dance as it was awesome!

Edited by SpeedFlex27

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5 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Bennett will get listed. I show Rowland as a Linebacker/running back, so he won't be on this list. Paul Brule was listed as a free safety (although he makes mention of being converted to a cornerback in an interview) so I will consider him in the "safety" category (as I will for Thornton, as I indicated earlier). Paul Williams had his greatest success with Saskatchewan (his 2 all-star nods came while playing for the Roughies) so I will exclude him due to little info on his Winnipeg contributions. Doug Strong played 5 years and had 15 total Ints., with zero team award nominations, divisional or CFL all-star nods, so in my humble opinion he falls short of the "all-time great" nominees. But I thank you for bringing each case to my attention. Furthermore, if anyone feels I have omitted a player in the final "voting" thread (coming soon!) I invite you make  a case for them for inclusion in your own response. Glad to see people invested in this exercise.

David Shaw deserves to be on that list. 

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Here is a little history on the evolution of player positions

In the early days, the wingline (O-Line) consisted of 1 x snapback (centre), 2 x inside wing (Guard), 2 x middle wing (Tackle) & 2 x outside wing (End)

The backfield consisted of 1 x quarterback, 3 x halfback

The final position was a flying wing (FW). Flying indicated that the player possessed the speed necessary to make end runs (similar to a halfback). Wing represented the physical stature needed to fill on the wingline. The combination of size and speed also made the FW the ideal candidate to take the snap from centre on an extension play (similar to rugby).

Mid 1930's - the increased American influence saw the modern terminology for the O-Line come into vogue. The 3 HBs became 2 HBs and a FB (fullback). American coaches were used to operating an 11 man formation and they didn't know how to incorporate the FW. During the 1940's the FW often lined up as a flanker simply as a way of staying out of the way.  

By the late 1940's, the FW started to become more involved in the offence as a true flanker (receiver).

1955 - Winnipeg adopted a new backfield alignment.   HB  FB  FB  HB

1964 - Winnipeg became the last team to adopt a more modern look to the offence. The ends were now defined as a tight end (TE) and a split end (SE). The backfield now consisted of HB  FB  HB  FL (flanker)

~1970 - the wingback (precursor to the slotback) was introduced, replacing one of the HB positions. The wingback (WB) was used as a runner and a receiver.

During the 1970's we saw the introduction of the term runningback which eventually replaced the HB.

By the late 1970's there was another change in positions. The SE & FL were renamed wide receivers (WR). The WB & TE became slotbacks. The backfield now consisted of a RB & FB.

 

Prior to 1950, substitutions were limited in Canadian football.  If a player subbed out of the game, he could not return until the following quarter. As a result, players were required to play both ways which meant there were no formal positions for the defensive side of the ball.

A common lineup could include   E  T  G  G  T  E  on the d-line with HB  FB  C  HB  in the second row and the QB occupying a safety position. The FW would often lineup based on where the opposing FW was positioned.

1950 - With free substitutions now permitted we saw the introduction of formal defensive positions. Winnipeg ran a 5-4-3 lineup with DE  DT  MG  DT  DE  on the line, CLB  ILB  ILB  CLB  as linebackers & DHB  S  DHB  in the defensive backfield.   MG = middle guard, CLB = corner linebacker.

1965 - Winnipeg shifted to a 4-3-5 defensive alignment. It saw   DE  DT  DT  DE  on the line with OLB  MLB  OLB as linebackers and  CB  DHB  S  DHB  CB  in the defensive backfield.

Winnipeg has also used a 3-4-5 formation (common throughout the Cal Murphy years). It saw  DE  NT  DE  on the line &  OLB  ILB  ILB  OLB  as linebackers.

 

I am not sure if this clears things up or just muddies the water a little.

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