I'm not saying Ricky Collins specifically. Because he's just one example. But look at him. Tattooed. Gold grill. Personality. Attitude. And what else? He's a damn good football player. And we had him - but we got rid of him. Why?

I honestly don't think our talent evaluation is that bad. I think our evaluation of the kind of men we want on our football team is. I'm going to be blunt about it even though I think it's probably going to ruffle some feathers. I think Ricky Collins got cut from this team because he's not Carlton Banks. You can't blame Walters or our scouts - they signed this kid. And look at him in Saskatchewan. Circus catches for TDs and first downs. Top 5 players in the CFL in yards per catch? Walker. Bowman. Williams. Ellingson. Ricky Collins.

This kid is an example of the football player we needed on this football team and I kind of have to believe at this point that he got overlooked because he's not the "take home to meet the family, hold the door open for grandma" type. What else is it?

Where is the attitude on our team? The only player we really whole heartedly market is Andrew Harris and while he's definitely got some personality, it's the hometown factor that we market. Not his attitude or his personality. Other than that? We don't seem to have a whole lot of it because O'Shea seems to be more interested in recruiting players he would trust babysitting or taking grandpa to the doctor.

Gimme some KD Williams, Jonathan Hefney, Brandon Dyson guys. This team needs it.

Amen brother.

I said it before though, with Davis playing well perhaps they really did just like others better. Football is a game of opportunities sometimes. 

I will agree with your overall theory though, there is absolutely no reason this team shouldn't have been paying to retain someone like Demond Washington. Yeah he's hurt this year but that guy was a play maker and he had an attitude to match, but he was arguably the best db on the team last year. 

But here is the thing, Walters hired O'Shea, Walters is the GM and is he also in that good men crowd? because they both seem very in sync with regards to what they want. 

And I remember when posters were excited because it was reported that one of the coaches, I think O'Shea, was asking the food service staff if the players were polite.

I thought it was absurd, if it was true.

Suitor said on the pregame on 1290 that the game should be fun for the players and that it isn't for the guys on the Bombers. We know most of them aren't getting rich playing for the Bombers.

I think that our players could play with some excitement, but I expect it's  not what the head coach wants.

And so they don't.

I suspect that this coaching staff, starting with O'Shea,  takes the fun out of the game, for the players. No celebrating, no dancing, no interacting with the fans, none of that stuff is wanted on this team.

 

 

Edited July 22, 20169 yr by Mark F

Last night I was watching the Stamp receivers celebrate every catch and they were always chirping the Bomber DB's after every catch.  It pisses me off but if that keeps the juices going. Than I want some of that on our team.   

 

 

4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I said it before though, with Davis playing well perhaps they really did just like others better. Football is a game of opportunities sometimes. 

I will agree with your overall theory though, there is absolutely no reason this team shouldn't have been paying to retain someone like Demond Washington. Yeah he's hurt this year but that guy was a play maker and he had an attitude to match, but he was arguably the best db on the team last year. 

But here is the thing, Walters hired O'Shea, Walters is the GM and is he also in that good men crowd? because they both seem very in sync with regards to what they want. 

He didn't even make it to main camp, he was at rookie camp where Jace Davis wasn't even present.

... how the **** does Kevin Cone make it to training camp over a guy like Ricky Collins. Seriously. If that's PURE talent analysis, that's embarrassing.

Davis didn't do **** in preseason anyway and he still made the team, with him I think it was all about what they saw previously. Now as for why guys made it to camp and didn't I don't know but I have a real hard time believing that the choice to bring a guy to camp or not is based purely on attitude. Making that decision after training camp certainly, but before? I dunno that seems a stretch. 

Again I'm not discounting the theory because I do believe the underlying idea does have some truth to it, just that this specific case seems more nuanced. 

1 minute ago, Mike said:

He didn't even make it to main camp, he was at rookie camp where Jace Davis wasn't even present.

... how the **** does Kevin Cone make it to training camp over a guy like Ricky Collins. Seriously. If that's PURE talent analysis, that's embarrassing.

Cone, Talley, Kris Adams the list of also ran WR's goes on. Explosive import WR's enter the league every year and the last one to make an impact in Winnipeg was Chris Matthews. Like you said Mike, how much of this is talent evaluation at the scouting level and how much of it lies at the feet of O'Shea and the team persona he wants to develop?

I am a St.Louis Rams (now LA) fan as well and when Steve Spagnuolo was the HC his philosophy was a "4 pillars" approach that valued choir boys above good football players and we all know how that turned out. I'm not saying you need a team full of Greg Hardy and Ray Rice types, far from it, but that doesn't mean that if he doesn't hold the door open for your mom he isn't worth a spot on the roster.

 

This team could use some Cheez Whiz...

There's no personality. 

43 minutes ago, Dr. Blue said:

This team could use some Cheez Whiz...

There's no personality. 

Just watching the way this team always crawls out of the gate......indicates a lack of jam.

attitude and personality are one thing...I don't want straight up assholes. Maybe MOS goes too far with what he's looking for, but I agree with it in principle. There's gotta be a middle ground somewhere. 

I agree we could use some more attitude in the lineup.  I also like the idea of having solid human beings on the roster.  Maybe the coaches have gone overboard in their desire to have good people top to bottom?  And who says you can't have some attitude and still be a decent person?

For what it's worth, I heard Collins got released because he didn't know what the hell he was doing in practices.  I guess he got that straightened out in Sask.

1 hour ago, B-F-F-C said:

Last night I was watching the Stamp receivers celebrate every catch and they were always chirping the Bomber DB's after every catch.  It pisses me off but if that keeps the juices going. Than I want some of that on our team.   

 

I saw both Rob Maver and Rene Paredes jawing with the bench after plays yesterday... their kickers have more attitude than most of our team!

We have an all choir boy team from the GM on down. Good teams have the right mix of a$$holes and choir boys.

Waiting for some lemmings to suggest that Taman come back......

Just now, do or die said:

Waiting for some lemmings to suggest that Taman come back......

I asked Dave this morning on FB: "Serious question...is it insane to wonder if Taman might be a decent option at this point?"

Why yes, yes it is...

no shortage of suckers for punishment, anyways.....

It's quite noticeable....the lack of 'enthusiasm' on this club...The bench looks like they were told not to be too demonstrative, as this could sap our needed reserve strength or something lol...O'Shea wanders up and down with a 'sheepy' grin or expressionless for the most part...whether a decent play was made or a busted one...Of course when the player who was guilty of a bone-head move, he does get a smile and sometimes a pat with the clip board...I don't know whether this lack of emotion is because we are so beaten down or the heart has gone out of this club altogether... I do not like foolish penalties for 'over reacting' BUT for cripes sake let's look like we are at least 'alive' and want to win more than the other guys..Lots wrong with this club and we lose a helluva lot more than we win but there's no excuse for coming out of our tunnel looking listless and ready to concede the 2 pts...Leggett said it awhile ago...we need players on this team who play the game 'on the edge' and are not 'Mr. Nice guys'....Maybe that's beyond Mike O.

2 hours ago, Mike said:

 

I'm not saying Ricky Collins specifically. Because he's just one example. But look at him. Tattooed. Gold grill. Personality. Attitude. And what else? He's a damn good football player. And we had him - but we got rid of him. Why?

I honestly don't think our talent evaluation is that bad. I think our evaluation of the kind of men we want on our football team is. I'm going to be blunt about it even though I think it's probably going to ruffle some feathers. I think Ricky Collins got cut from this team because he's not Carlton Banks. You can't blame Walters or our scouts - they signed this kid. And look at him in Saskatchewan. Circus catches for TDs and first downs. Top 5 players in the CFL in yards per catch? Walker. Bowman. Williams. Ellingson. Ricky Collins.

This kid is an example of the football player we needed on this football team and I kind of have to believe at this point that he got overlooked because he's not the "take home to meet the family, hold the door open for grandma" type. What else is it?

Where is the attitude on our team? The only player we really whole heartedly market is Andrew Harris and while he's definitely got some personality, it's the hometown factor that we market. Not his attitude or his personality. Other than that? We don't seem to have a whole lot of it because O'Shea seems to be more interested in recruiting players he would trust babysitting or taking grandpa to the doctor.

Gimme some KD Williams, Jonathan Hefney, Brandon Dyson guys. This team needs it.

Thats a bloody good point. Every team has some guys slip through the cracks. BC with khari, harold nash when he came here, marvin coleman, juran bolden mike sellers and doug brown to name a few. 

But I think thats it, this team kinda seems in shock and expects to break out of it doing more of what they have been doing. Id say the extremely passive systems our O and D run make it even worse. You take guys who dont have that nasty edge and put them in a passive system  youll get maligned play.

Im still a lil sore with how brandon dysons time here ended. I d throw on more elfred peyton, more miltitude, more harold nash and even more dave donaldson. DD was a bit dense with the penalties but he never took a play off and made the opponent work twice as hard.

8 minutes ago, Stickem said:

It's quite noticeable....the lack of 'enthusiasm' on this club...The bench looks like they were told not to be too demonstrative, as this could sap our needed reserve strength or something lol...O'Shea wanders up and down with a 'sheepy' grin or expressionless for the most part...whether a decent play was made or a busted one...Of course when the player who was guilty of a bone-head move, he does get a smile and sometimes a pat with the clip board...I don't know whether this lack of emotion is because we are so beaten down or the heart has gone out of this club altogether... I do not like foolish penalties for 'over reacting' BUT for cripes sake let's look like we are at least 'alive' and want to win more than the other guys..Lots wrong with this club and we lose a helluva lot more than we win but there's no excuse for coming out of our tunnel looking listless and ready to concede the 2 pts...Leggett said it awhile ago...we need players on this team who play the game 'on the edge' and are not 'Mr. Nice guys'....Maybe that's beyond Mike O.

To this day, still surprised by MOS on bench. He was fiery as hell when he played and a good defensive player. Have not seen it as a coach. I keep waiting for him to lose it on the bench and just go postal on somebody. Come on Mike, just snap for once, you'll like it and want to do it again.  

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

Thats a bloody good point. Every team has some guys slip through the cracks. BC with khari, harold nash when he came here, marvin coleman, juran bolden mike sellers and doug brown to name a few. 

But I think thats it, this team kinda seems in shock and expects to break out of it doing more of what they have been doing. Id say the extremely passive systems our O and D run make it even worse. You take guys who dont have that nasty edge and put them in a passive system  youll get maligned play.

Im still a lil sore with how brandon dysons time here ended. I d throw on more elfred peyton, more miltitude, more harold nash and even more dave donaldson. DD was a bit dense with the penalties but he never took a play off and made the opponent work twice as hard.

huh?

13 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Thats a bloody good point. Every team has some guys slip through the cracks. BC with khari, harold nash when he came here, marvin coleman, juran bolden mike sellers and doug brown to name a few. 

But I think thats it, this team kinda seems in shock and expects to break out of it doing more of what they have been doing. Id say the extremely passive systems our O and D run make it even worse. You take guys who dont have that nasty edge and put them in a passive system  youll get maligned play.

Im still a lil sore with how brandon dysons time here ended. I d throw on more elfred peyton, more miltitude, more harold nash and even more dave donaldson. DD was a bit dense with the penalties but he never took a play off and made the opponent work twice as hard.

Dave Donaldon sure knew how to take a vicious no yards penalty.

2 minutes ago, Nash00 said:

Dave Donaldon sure knew how to take a vicious no yards penalty.

Yeah, my recollection of Donaldson was, celebrating a receiver dropping a ball, when he was nowhere near the play and getting penalties.  He was pretty much awful.

Where does it say that guys with tattoos and grills can't also also be good men? And the people who continue to insist that Oshea never shows emotion or fire, did you not see him laying into the refs following the CGY offside that led to a TD. I don't read lips... but he wasn't exactly commending them on their efforts...