do or die Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Well, one of the criteria is what does the coach do....with what he has. This current roster and the talent on it, have to be considered, as well. (Walters) This is the biggest thing to me. Our receivers aren't good enough, we can't seem to find an impact player on the opposite side of Westerman on the DL, the OL has been changing players constantly for the entire time Walters has been here. We've had a bunch of good rbs but none that have really grabbed the job by the balls and taken it. For my money this roster just flat out isn't good enough to start blaming the coach. I would reserve judgement on the running back situation as our running game, in general, is a complete mess. Blocking, inconsistent use and a mediocre passing game have all worked against the guys in the backfield. My one thought is that Marshall has been criminally underused this season - both catching and running the ball - and the near constant rotation of backs during the game does nothing to help establish a rhythm there. The way we use Marshall is a joke. The way QB/RB come to a dead stop on handoffs is a joke. The way every run play is run as some sort of slow tempo stretch play is a joke. The run blocking, overall.. is a joke. With 10023834939 running backs and receivers in the USA, we couldn't find a replacement for Cotton (Chevon Walker!!!) and had Stods as a R, coming down the stretch. Overall playcalling on O.....hell, cannot bear to even go into that again. Getting rid of Marcel will fix some of this...but not all. Fatty Liver 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardCoreBlue Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 The number one key to success is caring about how you look on the sidelines. Right, Bill? I like to wear my belt much the same way but higher up at chest level. I thought it was his fanny pack turned backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardCoreBlue Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Well, one of the criteria is what does the coach do....with what he has. This current roster and the talent on it, have to be considered, as well. (Walters) I agree completely but sometimes quite difficult to pinpoint whose clearly to blame outside of the obvious examples when it comes to player talent or coaching ability (e.g., Chevron Walker, MB). A player will argue coaches aren't using them properly to highlight their skillset, a coach will argue they are putting the player (s) into the position needed to be successful but the player isn't executing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
do or die Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Well it appears we did this better on one side of the ball, than the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J5V Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 What if we did it this way? Please list the Head Coach's strengths and weaknesses in the following categories. Game Preparation - doesn't seem very good Game Knowledge - can't possibly know Team Practices - some "experts" here claim he doesn't run a pro practice... of course they know how a pro practice is run... Roster Management - seemingly poor Assistant Coaches Selection - poor... though we don't know his limitations (ex. Walters/Miller input, budget, availability) Player Coaching and Development - don't know Morale - probably good... don't really know though In-Game Decision Making - not too bad Xs and Os - don't know Offense - don't know Defense - should be good Special Teams - good Media Relations - not very good The problem with this list is we realistically don't know the answer to a lot of them.... sure we can guess... but it likely won't be accurate... Even though I don't know for sure, I have formed an opinion that is likely to be very accurate. I think he's been exposed as a terrible head coach but there's no need to embarrass the poor guy any further. He's had a very rough year. I am sure he has learned a lot these past two seasons. He's got one year left. Let's see if he can put it all together next year. What do you think? Can he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 What if we did it this way? Please list the Head Coach's strengths and weaknesses in the following categories. Game Preparation - doesn't seem very good Game Knowledge - can't possibly know Team Practices - some "experts" here claim he doesn't run a pro practice... of course they know how a pro practice is run... Roster Management - seemingly poor Assistant Coaches Selection - poor... though we don't know his limitations (ex. Walters/Miller input, budget, availability) Player Coaching and Development - don't know Morale - probably good... don't really know though In-Game Decision Making - not too bad Xs and Os - don't know Offense - don't know Defense - should be good Special Teams - good Media Relations - not very good The problem with this list is we realistically don't know the answer to a lot of them.... sure we can guess... but it likely won't be accurate... Even though I don't know for sure, I have formed an opinion that is likely to be very accurate. I think he's been exposed as a terrible head coach but there's no need to embarrass the poor guy any further. He's had a very rough year. I am sure he has learned a lot these past two seasons. He's got one year left. Let's see if he can put it all together next year. What do you think? Can he? All the available evidence says "no." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J5V Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 What if we did it this way? Please list the Head Coach's strengths and weaknesses in the following categories. Game Preparation - doesn't seem very good Game Knowledge - can't possibly know Team Practices - some "experts" here claim he doesn't run a pro practice... of course they know how a pro practice is run... Roster Management - seemingly poor Assistant Coaches Selection - poor... though we don't know his limitations (ex. Walters/Miller input, budget, availability) Player Coaching and Development - don't know Morale - probably good... don't really know though In-Game Decision Making - not too bad Xs and Os - don't know Offense - don't know Defense - should be good Special Teams - good Media Relations - not very good The problem with this list is we realistically don't know the answer to a lot of them.... sure we can guess... but it likely won't be accurate... Even though I don't know for sure, I have formed an opinion that is likely to be very accurate. I think he's been exposed as a terrible head coach but there's no need to embarrass the poor guy any further. He's had a very rough year. I am sure he has learned a lot these past two seasons. He's got one year left. Let's see if he can put it all together next year. What do you think? Can he? All the available evidence says "no." Even with a new OC? Even with some new players? Even with 2 years under his belt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 What if we did it this way? Please list the Head Coach's strengths and weaknesses in the following categories. Game Preparation - doesn't seem very good Game Knowledge - can't possibly know Team Practices - some "experts" here claim he doesn't run a pro practice... of course they know how a pro practice is run... Roster Management - seemingly poor Assistant Coaches Selection - poor... though we don't know his limitations (ex. Walters/Miller input, budget, availability) Player Coaching and Development - don't know Morale - probably good... don't really know though In-Game Decision Making - not too bad Xs and Os - don't know Offense - don't know Defense - should be good Special Teams - good Media Relations - not very good The problem with this list is we realistically don't know the answer to a lot of them.... sure we can guess... but it likely won't be accurate... Even though I don't know for sure, I have formed an opinion that is likely to be very accurate. I think he's been exposed as a terrible head coach but there's no need to embarrass the poor guy any further. He's had a very rough year. I am sure he has learned a lot these past two seasons. He's got one year left. Let's see if he can put it all together next year. What do you think? Can he? All the available evidence says "no." Even with a new OC? Even with some new players? Even with 2 years under his belt? Those all exist as possibilities and may or may not come to pass. It is even possible, although horrifying to consider, that Bellefeuille could be here next year, so it could actually get worse. All we have to go on is the track record, and that does not inspire confidence. Consider how bad the DC was last year and how long it took to replace him, and the same situation this year with the STC and OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigseye Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 1 - 5 record in home and home games, that's terrible even for crappy teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 What if we did it this way? Please list the Head Coach's strengths and weaknesses in the following categories. Game Preparation - doesn't seem very good Game Knowledge - can't possibly know Team Practices - some "experts" here claim he doesn't run a pro practice... of course they know how a pro practice is run... Roster Management - seemingly poor Assistant Coaches Selection - poor... though we don't know his limitations (ex. Walters/Miller input, budget, availability) Player Coaching and Development - don't know Morale - probably good... don't really know though In-Game Decision Making - not too bad Xs and Os - don't know Offense - don't know Defense - should be good Special Teams - good Media Relations - not very good The problem with this list is we realistically don't know the answer to a lot of them.... sure we can guess... but it likely won't be accurate... Even though I don't know for sure, I have formed an opinion that is likely to be very accurate. I think he's been exposed as a terrible head coach but there's no need to embarrass the poor guy any further. He's had a very rough year. I am sure he has learned a lot these past two seasons. He's got one year left. Let's see if he can put it all together next year. What do you think? Can he? I agree... I'm no advocate for keeping O'Shea... for me the record 7-11 and now 6-12 (if we're lucky) is the only stat I care about... I'm not sure anyone can possibly be convinced this team is progressing... but there's big problems: who are the better alternatives?... is this a winning team with a new OC?... I just really don't know what to think about the team/organization as a whole right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPuDS Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 What if we did it this way? Please list the Head Coach's strengths and weaknesses in the following categories. Game Preparation - doesn't seem very good Game Knowledge - can't possibly know Team Practices - some "experts" here claim he doesn't run a pro practice... of course they know how a pro practice is run... Roster Management - seemingly poor Assistant Coaches Selection - poor... though we don't know his limitations (ex. Walters/Miller input, budget, availability) Player Coaching and Development - don't know Morale - probably good... don't really know though In-Game Decision Making - not too bad Xs and Os - don't know Offense - don't know Defense - should be good Special Teams - good Media Relations - not very good The problem with this list is we realistically don't know the answer to a lot of them.... sure we can guess... but it likely won't be accurate... Even though I don't know for sure, I have formed an opinion that is likely to be very accurate. I think he's been exposed as a terrible head coach but there's no need to embarrass the poor guy any further. He's had a very rough year. I am sure he has learned a lot these past two seasons. He's got one year left. Let's see if he can put it all together next year. What do you think? Can he? I agree... I'm no advocate for keeping O'Shea... for me the record 7-11 and now 6-12 (if we're lucky) is the only stat I care about... I'm not sure anyone can possibly be convinced this team is progressing... but there's big problems: who are the better alternatives?... is this a winning team with a new OC?... I just really don't know what to think about the team/organization as a whole right now... Im in the boat that believes our offense was and continues to be the teams biggest issue. Its the CFL. You need an offense to be competitive. We dont even have a "game management" offense let alone a "dictate the pace" one., our offense has been a consistent liability all year long.. ST has been up and down and defense has become a force imo. If our offense could stay on the field and actually score TDs then our defense would be even better from not burning out or being counted on to hold the tide every game all game long.. Bigblue204 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J5V Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 What if we did it this way? Please list the Head Coach's strengths and weaknesses in the following categories. Game Preparation - doesn't seem very good Game Knowledge - can't possibly know Team Practices - some "experts" here claim he doesn't run a pro practice... of course they know how a pro practice is run... Roster Management - seemingly poor Assistant Coaches Selection - poor... though we don't know his limitations (ex. Walters/Miller input, budget, availability) Player Coaching and Development - don't know Morale - probably good... don't really know though In-Game Decision Making - not too bad Xs and Os - don't know Offense - don't know Defense - should be good Special Teams - good Media Relations - not very good The problem with this list is we realistically don't know the answer to a lot of them.... sure we can guess... but it likely won't be accurate... Even though I don't know for sure, I have formed an opinion that is likely to be very accurate. I think he's been exposed as a terrible head coach but there's no need to embarrass the poor guy any further. He's had a very rough year. I am sure he has learned a lot these past two seasons. He's got one year left. Let's see if he can put it all together next year. What do you think? Can he? All the available evidence says "no." Even with a new OC? Even with some new players? Even with 2 years under his belt? Those all exist as possibilities and may or may not come to pass. It is even possible, although horrifying to consider, that Bellefeuille could be here next year, so it could actually get worse. All we have to go on is the track record, and that does not inspire confidence. Consider how bad the DC was last year and how long it took to replace him, and the same situation this year with the STC and OC. Hall didn't become available to replace Etcheverry until the off-season last year and we made the move. If an OC becomes available this off-season I suspect we'll make the move. O'Shea refused to throw Etch, Tracey, or MB under the bus and I respect him for that. I love that he's good with the players and doesn't berate anyone in public. The important thing is the changes were made. Same with players. What I don't know is whether or not O'Shea will be replaced if a HC becomes available. We could build a dynamite team around O'Shea and still flounder if he doesn't put it together next year. A coach like Cory Chamblin has shown that he can win it all with the right team. I'm not sure O'Shea can. I'm not sure that he has the acumen to do it as a head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J5V Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 What if we did it this way? Please list the Head Coach's strengths and weaknesses in the following categories. Game Preparation - doesn't seem very good Game Knowledge - can't possibly know Team Practices - some "experts" here claim he doesn't run a pro practice... of course they know how a pro practice is run... Roster Management - seemingly poor Assistant Coaches Selection - poor... though we don't know his limitations (ex. Walters/Miller input, budget, availability) Player Coaching and Development - don't know Morale - probably good... don't really know though In-Game Decision Making - not too bad Xs and Os - don't know Offense - don't know Defense - should be good Special Teams - good Media Relations - not very good The problem with this list is we realistically don't know the answer to a lot of them.... sure we can guess... but it likely won't be accurate... Even though I don't know for sure, I have formed an opinion that is likely to be very accurate. I think he's been exposed as a terrible head coach but there's no need to embarrass the poor guy any further. He's had a very rough year. I am sure he has learned a lot these past two seasons. He's got one year left. Let's see if he can put it all together next year. What do you think? Can he? I agree... I'm no advocate for keeping O'Shea... for me the record 7-11 and now 6-12 (if we're lucky) is the only stat I care about... I'm not sure anyone can possibly be convinced this team is progressing... but there's big problems: who are the better alternatives?... is this a winning team with a new OC?... I just really don't know what to think about the team/organization as a whole right now... O'Shea has a year left. I'd like to see a new OC and some player upgrades and see what O'Shea can do. We signed him for 3 years, let's give him 3 years and decide whether to keep him going forward. He's got to know this is his last chance to get it together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue204 Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 What if we did it this way? Please list the Head Coach's strengths and weaknesses in the following categories. Game Preparation - doesn't seem very good Game Knowledge - can't possibly know Team Practices - some "experts" here claim he doesn't run a pro practice... of course they know how a pro practice is run... Roster Management - seemingly poor Assistant Coaches Selection - poor... though we don't know his limitations (ex. Walters/Miller input, budget, availability) Player Coaching and Development - don't know Morale - probably good... don't really know though In-Game Decision Making - not too bad Xs and Os - don't know Offense - don't know Defense - should be good Special Teams - good Media Relations - not very good The problem with this list is we realistically don't know the answer to a lot of them.... sure we can guess... but it likely won't be accurate... Even though I don't know for sure, I have formed an opinion that is likely to be very accurate. I think he's been exposed as a terrible head coach but there's no need to embarrass the poor guy any further. He's had a very rough year. I am sure he has learned a lot these past two seasons. He's got one year left. Let's see if he can put it all together next year. What do you think? Can he? All the available evidence says "no." Even with a new OC? Even with some new players? Even with 2 years under his belt? Those all exist as possibilities and may or may not come to pass. It is even possible, although horrifying to consider, that Bellefeuille could be here next year, so it could actually get worse. All we have to go on is the track record, and that does not inspire confidence. Consider how bad the DC was last year and how long it took to replace him, and the same situation this year with the STC and OC. Hall didn't become available to replace Etcheverry until the off-season last year and we made the move. If an OC becomes available this off-season I suspect we'll make the move. O'Shea refused to throw Etch, Tracey, or MB under the bus and I respect him for that. I love that he's good with the players and doesn't berate anyone in public. The important thing is the changes were made. Same with players. What I don't know is whether or not O'Shea will be replaced if a HC becomes available. We could build a dynamite team around O'Shea and still flounder if he doesn't put it together next year. A coach like Cory Chamblin has shown that he can win it all with the right team. I'm not sure O'Shea can. I'm not sure that he has the acumen to do it as a head coach. I'd bet a months salary we won't be waiting for an OC to become available this off season. MB is done. He will not be back next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR. CFL Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Are u unemployed to make that risky bet? Bigblue204 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBURGESS Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 If O'Shea was the HC of any other team who'd been 8th out of 9 teams two years in a row and hadn't won 2 games in a row for most of that time, no one would want him as our HC. In fact, most would rightly ridicule the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 I think giving MOS another year is a waste of the 2016 season. Next year at this time we'll be saying we should have let him go off this season because as far as winning goes we'll probably be the same as this year & the last. Hell, he can't even find his own assistants anymore. He needs Wade Miller to do it for him. He's essentially being babysat by Miller. What's another year? It's only been 25 years since we last won a GC & only qualified for the playoffs twice in the last 8 years. Guess it's okay to blow one more year on a guy who is vastly unqualified to be a head coach. The O'Shea hire maybe the worst head coaching decision the Bombers ever made. Even worse than the Reinbold hire which is saying a lot. I have absolutely zero confidence that just changing OC's will make this team a winner.It starts with the Head coach & General Manager. MB isn't very good but he'll be Miller's convenient scapegoat to blame all the problems on him. And some vocal fans have bought in. DR. CFL, Tracker, Stickem and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dee Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 I think giving MOS another year is a waste of the 2016 season. Next year at this time we'll be saying we should have let him go off this season because as far as winning goes we'll probably be the same as this year & the last. Hell, he can't even find his own assistants anymore. He needs Wade Miller to do it for him. He's essentially being babysat by Miller. What's another year? It's only been 25 years since we last won a GC & only qualified for the playoffs twice in the last 8 years. Guess it's okay to blow one more year on a guy who is vastly unqualified to be a head coach. The O'Shea hire maybe the worst head coaching decision the Bombers ever made. Even worse than the Reinbold hire which is saying a lot. I have absolutely zero confidence that just changing OC's will make this team a winner.It starts with the Head coach & General Manager. MB isn't very good but he'll be Miller's convenient scapegoat to blame all the problems on him. And some vocal fans have bought in. I'm guessing you love this O'Shea situation as it stands because it allows you to go on....and on.....and on, about any minuscule factoid that is reported.Now it's because someone saw Miller talking to someone about something, but you can use it to fuel the phrase "now he needs Wade Miller to do it for him" in referring to hiring assistants. You must love that angle eh? Why don't you dissect what Walters needs to be doing or at least tell us what you feel O'Shea is doing wrong, that is, if you even know how he is handling things. And try not to regurgitate things like "roster management", because I'm pretty sure a lot of criticizers don't even know what that entails. blitzmore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 I think giving MOS another year is a waste of the 2016 season. Next year at this time we'll be saying we should have let him go off this season because as far as winning goes we'll probably be the same as this year & the last. Hell, he can't even find his own assistants anymore. He needs Wade Miller to do it for him. He's essentially being babysat by Miller. What's another year? It's only been 25 years since we last won a GC & only qualified for the playoffs twice in the last 8 years. Guess it's okay to blow one more year on a guy who is vastly unqualified to be a head coach. The O'Shea hire maybe the worst head coaching decision the Bombers ever made. Even worse than the Reinbold hire which is saying a lot. I have absolutely zero confidence that just changing OC's will make this team a winner.It starts with the Head coach & General Manager. MB isn't very good but he'll be Miller's convenient scapegoat to blame all the problems on him. And some vocal fans have bought in. I'm guessing you love this O'Shea situation as it stands because it allows you to go on....and on.....and on, about any minuscule factoid that is reported.Now it's because someone saw Miller talking to someone about something, but you can use it to fuel the phrase "now he needs Wade Miller to do it for him" in referring to hiring assistants. You must love that angle eh? Why don't you dissect what Walters needs to be doing or at least tell us what you feel O'Shea is doing wrong, that is, if you even know how he is handling things. And try not to regurgitate things like "roster management", because I'm pretty sure a lot of criticizers don't even know what that entails. You do so why do I need to explain it? I don't love the MOS situation because it means as long as he's here we'll keep losing. I firmly believe that he's a bad coach in way over his head & you can stick up for him all you like. I won't change my opinion on that. As far as Walters goes, he isn't going anywhere so it'll be MOS who will be fired first. So, what's the point ragging on KW even though I think that he should go with O'Shea? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Liver Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 If O'Shea was the HC of any other team who'd been 8th out of 9 teams two years in a row and hadn't won 2 games in a row for most of that time, no one would want him as our HC. In fact, most would rightly ridicule the idea. I don't know which way this is going to go but nobody should be surprised if O'Shea is fired including Mike himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigseye Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Pinball pulled it off but O'Shea isn't Pinball, can't see it working out for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyFartball Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 MOS's biggest weakness is his coaching. IC Khari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 O'Shea should be fired. But I think Miller will keep him around, unfortunately. They want a lame duck coach next season that's Miller's decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J5V Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 I think some of you are forgetting what a difference it made to our defence to replace Etcheverry with Hall. I can see the offence doing much better with a new OC and if this team had an offence it might be dangerous in spite of Mike O'Shea. If Walters can find some receivers like the Argos did and if Marshall gets lots of touches I believe we can play some exciting ball. I'm not saying O'Shea shouldn't be replaced but it may not be possible. Who is going to come here to do his job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 I think some of you are forgetting what a difference it made to our defence to replace Etcheverry with Hall. I can see the offence doing much better with a new OC and if this team had an offence it might be dangerous in spite of Mike O'Shea. If Walters can find some receivers like the Argos did and if Marshall gets lots of touches I believe we can play some exciting ball. I'm not saying O'Shea shouldn't be replaced but it may not be possible. Who is going to come here to do his job? Hard to believe but there are coaching candidates out there. Miller likes finding assistant coaches so finding a head coach should be a huge thrill for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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