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Travis Rudolph / ALM / BLM


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1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

What a waste of a life. 

It is very difficult for us "normies" to understand the mindset created by centuries of poverty, abuse and neglect. One one occasion, I had to interview a black male who had grown up in south Chicago and was facing serious charges. At one point, I asked him what his reaction was to what he was accused of (and had admittedly done). His reply still sends chills up my spine: "I don't care if I live or die, so imagine how little I care if you or anyone else dies".

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1 hour ago, Tracker said:

It is very difficult for us "normies" to understand the mindset created by centuries of poverty, abuse and neglect. One one occasion, I had to interview a black male who had grown up in south Chicago and was facing serious charges. At one point, I asked him what his reaction was to what he was accused of (and had admittedly done). His reply still sends chills up my spine: "I don't care if I live or die, so imagine how little I care if you or anyone else dies".

with all due respect. I understand it all too well. Doesn't change that it's a waste.

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24 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

with all due respect. I understand it all too well. Doesn't change that it's a waste.

Agreed, but it is difficult for many to escape the trap. On the flip side, there are also those who have every advantage, yet still live and end their lives in tragedy.

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Saying its a waste just means it's a sad situation for anyone to be charged or committed a murder. Not just the murderer and the victim but the families of both. Their lives will never be the same or reach their full potential. It's a waste of multiple lives, and yes often with root causes that reflect both current and historical situations. 

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15 hours ago, Tracker said:

Agreed, but it is difficult for many to escape the trap. On the flip side, there are also those who have every advantage, yet still live and end their lives in tragedy.

Anytime a life ends prematurely by an act of violence by someone else, or self imposed, it is both a tragedy and a waste.  I don't think that summation is exclusive to any race, religion, creed, or social standing both current and historic.

#ALLLIVESMATTER

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18 hours ago, Tracker said:

It is very difficult for us "normies" to understand the mindset created by centuries of poverty, abuse and neglect. One one occasion, I had to interview a black male who had grown up in south Chicago and was facing serious charges. At one point, I asked him what his reaction was to what he was accused of (and had admittedly done). His reply still sends chills up my spine: "I don't care if I live or die, so imagine how little I care if you or anyone else dies".

Way to generalize a whole race based on one guys story.  Maybe if the guy was raised by loving parents he wouldn't feel that way regardless of what color he was.  For the record if you were to speak with anyone in law enforcement they could tell you dozens of stories of criminals saying that same line regardless of gender/race/background. 

I've had friends from Africa and other very dangerous places where they had family come to Canada from places from poverty, extreme abuse and neglect and all of their children became extremely successful because the kids grew up in a household with two loving parents who preached hard work and respect and made sacrifices themselves to better their childrens lives. 

My wife who is not a "normie" by your definition is offended by your comment and says "Don't make excuses for bad people".  

 

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26 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Way to generalize a whole race based on one guys story.  Maybe if the guy was raised by loving parents he wouldn't feel that way regardless of what color he was.  For the record if you were to speak with anyone in law enforcement they could tell you dozens of stories of criminals saying that same line regardless of gender/race/background. 

I've had friends from Africa and other very dangerous places where they had family come to Canada from places from poverty, extreme abuse and neglect and all of their children became extremely successful because the kids grew up in a household with two loving parents who preached hard work and respect and made sacrifices themselves to better their childrens lives. 

My wife who is not a "normie" by your definition is offended by your comment and says "Don't make excuses for bad people".  

 

I agree. As a society we need to stop making excuses for inexcusable acts. I empathize with all victims of oppression, hate, prejudice, poverty etc but my empathy for criminals trying to excuse their behavior based on these factors is quite literally approaching an all time low. Somewhere along the line our societal shift towards political correctness has opened up a gaping hole for scum to crawl through and this chasm only widens the more this insanity continues. A criminal act is a criminal act, we need to stop reflecting the factors that contributed to it into the sentences and punishments. I don't give a crap about what kind of upbringing a person had, they know that murder and violence is wrong.

Edited by GCn20
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Travis Rudolph sounds like he was raised by two loving parents. Here is a pic of his dad Darryl, taking a break from his loving wife children and grandchildren (neglecting them, you could say) to answer a few questions about his son.

NINTCHDBPICT000646027821.jpg?strip=all&w

The news reports his dad was shot to death. True, but it wasn't murder, it was an accidental discharge. THAT'S tragic.

Sometimes, unfortunately, 2 loving parents can make all the right decisions and their kid can still grow up to make the wrong decisions. Hugs and bedtime stories are a great start, but the world around you and your unique experiences as an individual shape who you become. Once your kids hit public school... you are longer the sole influence if your kid's life. Just wait til they're on social media!

Not saying this is what anyone was implying... but anyone who thinks single parents can't sacrifice for their kids, preach hard work, instill respect or otherwise raise their kids properly is out to lunch. Plenty of single parents or children of single parents,. possibly even on this board.... who would have a few things to say about that.

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49 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

...I empathize with all victims of oppression, hate, prejudice, poverty etc but my empathy for criminals trying to excuse their behavior based on these factors is quite literally approaching an all time low. ...A criminal act is a criminal act, we need to stop reflecting the factors that contributed to it into the sentences and punishments. I don't give a crap about what kind of upbringing a person had...

"I empathize with these people, but **** em" is what I read. I'm guessing you haven't ever attended or listened to any Truth and Reconciliation dialogues. You should. You live in a black and white world of right and wrong that has never existed.

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yeah understanding/empathizing with how someone came to a point in their life where an act like murder takes place has nothing to do with excusing their behavior. We need to know these things so we can work towards actually addressing the problems that lead to crimes being committed. Not only that, but there is undeniable evidence that our current punishment system does **** all to actually reform people. Soooo maybe doing something different like taking into consideration how someone ended up committing a crime is the place to start? 

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<Start yet another unpopular opinion>

The murderer and the murdered all come from the same socioeconomic background and they are all likely the same race. None of that excuses the murderer or the murdered for that matter. I don't want to empathize with murderers nor do I want to understand them. I want to put them behind bars so they can't murder law abiding citizens. Three hots and a cot is better than dead.

There are murderers in all walks of life, all races, all financial situations, single parent, 2 or more parents, all religions etc. Simply belonging to a group doesn't make you a murderer, that's mostly an individuals choice. Take a weapon to a place and use it, that's premeditation.

There are 2 reasons to look at the murderers background. First to make people look at the background instead of the murder itself. It's the old 'that poor guy had a bad upbringing, no wonder he committed murder' excuse. Yes, I said excuse. Most people from the same upbringing won't commit murder.

The second reason is to see if there is something in the murderers background that we can look into to prevent future murders. That, on the surface, sounds great. Figure out what turns one person in any specific group into a murderer, one into a high achiever and the rest into average people. Lets say for argument that we could do that, what next? Take high risk kids away from their parents? I don't think so. Incarcerate folks who may commit murder? Nope. Single them out for 'special' treatment? In this political climate?

I think that it's the Government's job to make sure that everyone has food, a safe place to live, health care (Including prescriptions), and a good education. A minimum guaranteed income would go a long way towards achieving that for more people. We need equality for all races, religions, sexes, sexual orientation, economic status or any other way you want to group people. We are no where near any of that.

<End yet another unpopular opinion>

 

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If you want to over-simplify the issue of criminality, you will miss a lot of truths. I have worked with those who have committed serious crimes, and almost all have come through horrible childhoods and adolescences. This does not justify them committing crimes, but it does underscore that unless we intervene with people who have been brutalized, we will continue to fill our courts and jails. In Holland where non-violent offenders are not sent to jails but to alternate measures, the crime rates have fallen so far that they have been closing jails. That said, there have been a few that scared the poop out of me, even in a closed setting. These few need to be incarcerated for the rest of their lives.

 

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"Take high risk kids away from their parents? I don't think so. Incarcerate folks who may commit murder? Nope. Single them out for 'special' treatment? In this political climate?" it's cute that you don't think this is happening in todays society.

And honestly I don't think your opinion is that unpopular. The problem is, in real life....those tactics don't work worth a damn. Not in our society anyway. The main reason for understanding the background of someone who murders, is so society at large can see where there may be gaps that can be filled my regulators, or social services or community groups etc etc etc. I get that TV shows and shitty lawyers make it seem like it's to excuse an individuals behavior. But the people on the ground level benefit from knowing so they can help those who may be going through something similar, or so they can develop resources to do that.

3 minutes ago, Tracker said:

If you want to over-simplify the issue of criminality, you will miss a lot of truths. I have worked with those who have committed serious crimes, and almost all have come through horrible childhoods and adolescences. This does not justify them committing crimes, but it does underscore that unless we intervene with people who have been brutalized, we will continue to fill our courts and jails. In Holland where non-violent offenders are not sent to jails but to alternate measures, the crime rates have fallen so far that they have been closing jails. That said, there have been a few that scared the poop out of me, even in a closed setting. These few need to be incarcerated for the rest of their lives.

 

What we know 100% - Jails don't work for 99.99% of criminals.

Hurt people, hurt people.

Early intervention (which can look like many different things) with those who have been hurt can be a huge determining factor in how their stories unfold

Some people are just ****** and need to be removed from society. But even then, I'm not convinced there isn't a solution that would help them re-integrate.

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47 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

"Take high risk kids away from their parents? I don't think so. Incarcerate folks who may commit murder? Nope. Single them out for 'special' treatment? In this political climate?" it's cute that you don't think this is happening in todays society.

And honestly I don't think your opinion is that unpopular. The problem is, in real life....those tactics don't work worth a damn. Not in our society anyway. The main reason for understanding the background of someone who murders, is so society at large can see where there may be gaps that can be filled my regulators, or social services or community groups etc etc etc. I get that TV shows and shitty lawyers make it seem like it's to excuse an individuals behavior. But the people on the ground level benefit from knowing so they can help those who may be going through something similar, or so they can develop resources to do that.

What we know 100% - Jails don't work for 99.99% of criminals.

Hurt people, hurt people.

Early intervention (which can look like many different things) with those who have been hurt can be a huge determining factor in how their stories unfold

Some people are just ****** and need to be removed from society. But even then, I'm not convinced there isn't a solution that would help them re-integrate.

I am truly sorry to see that you have such a fatalistic view of people. The hard reality is that the more often and longer that people get sent to jail, the more likely they are to re-offend. In sending people to jail, all we are doing is gaining a temporary sense of safety and increasing the likelihood that our children and grandchildren will inherit even greater problems. 

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1 minute ago, Tracker said:

I am truly sorry to see that you have such a fatalistic view of people. The hard reality is that the more often and longer that people get sent to jail, the more likely they are to re-offend. In sending people to jail, all we are doing is gaining a temporary sense of safety and increasing the likelihood that our children and grandchildren will inherit even greater problems. 

wha? How did you get that from what I posted? I'm on the same page as you.

My only exception was for the .1% of people who are essentially psychopaths...which I then said  But even then, I'm not convinced there isn't a solution that would help them re-integrate.

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29 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

wha? How did you get that from what I posted? I'm on the same page as you.

My only exception was for the .1% of people who are essentially psychopaths...which I then said  But even then, I'm not convinced there isn't a solution that would help them re-integrate.

My apologies for misunderstanding you. 

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  • Mark H. changed the title to Travis Rudolph / ALM / BLM

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