As we settle in for the long off-season, and add another year to the futility chart for no Grey Cup championship, I thought a little winter project may keep things interesting. So I propose to create "the definitive" list of the all-time greatest Blue Bombers by position, as voted on by MBB members, covering all 89 years of this team's existence. Each week from now through April, we will focus on one position and decide who are the best all-time Bombers at that spot, completing the whole team as we enter training camp for 2019.

The team will be position-specific, so rather than, for example, picking 3 middle linebackers in the "linebacker" spot, I will focus one week on middle/inside linebackers and one week on outside linebackers. Same will go for slotback/wide receiver rather than just "receiver", safety/halfback/cornerback vs. "defensive back", and fullback and tailback vs. "running back". Also, where a player may have excelled in 2 areas, you are only to judge their merit for the position that they are nominated for that week (ex. Charlie Roberts could show up both as a running back or special teams returner, but when voting for him as a returner, do NOT consider his contributions as a running back in your overall estimation of him, and vice versa. Same would go for Rod Hill - ignore his special teams ability to block punts when considering his abilities as a defensive back, and if a kicker did both punting and placekicking, analyze each facet separately rather than their overall impact).

Because of changing offensive and defensive philosophies, I am going to expand the team in a couple of ways. On defence, rather than deciding between a 3-4 or a 4-3 defence, I will pick 2 inside/middle linebackers and two outside linebackers, and also two rush end/linemen and two interior linemen/nose tackles. To balance this on offence, there will be a tailback, fullback, slotback and wide receiver position, but also a #5 receiver position to account for the newer 5-1 offensive set.

The defence will be chosen first, then special teams, then offence, and finally coach and GM. I will try to dig into the archives so as not to omit any candidates, but I may miss a few, so send in a nomination either as a response to this message or as a PM to me, and I will include that person on the list and try to highlight their accomplishments for your consideration .Then everybody votes and the top vote getter (or two in some cases) will be on the team.

We will start with the cornerback position. You can nominate any cornerback from any era from today up until this Friday, and I will compile the list. On this Friday (December 7) I will post the nominees for people to vote on, and the following Friday (December 14th) the voting will close, with the top 2 vote getters being selected. Also this Friday (the 7th) I will open the nominations for defensive halfback, and that list of candidates will be open for voting on the 14th, and so on.

The order will be:

Cornerbacks (2), Defensive Halfbacks (2), Safety (1), Outside Linebackers (2), Middle/Inside Linebackers (2), Defensive Ends (2), Defensive Tackles (2)

Place kicker (1), Punter (1), Returner (both punt and kick) (1), Special Teamer (includes long snapper, special teams tackler, or punt block specialist) (1)

Centre (1), Offensive Guards (2), Offensive Tackles (2), Wide Receivers (2), Slotbacks (2), 5th receiver (#3 vote getter in Wide Receiver vs. #3 vote getter at Slotback in a special head-to-head runoff vote), Fullback (1), Tailback/Running Back (1), Quarterback (1)

Coach (1), GM (1)

Hopefully this piques people's interest, and gets us through the snowy season.

So off the top of my head for Cornerback nominees, I would suggest, in alpahabetical order:

Roy Bennett, Juran Bolden, Less Browne, Rod Hill, Jovon Johnson, Reggie Pierson, David Shaw (believe he played corner), **** Thornton.

Not on this list because I THINK they played halfback were Ken Hailey, James Jefferson and Ken Ploen, but I stand to be corrected.

I cannot think of anyone else who jumps out at me, but I am certain that I have forgotten someone (and please be mindful of the distinction of cornerback vs. halfback - if I have made an error let me know!). Keep sending in suggestions for nominations and I will create the voting list on Friday.

I promise future postings on this thread will be shorter.

 

 

Edited December 28, 20187 yr by TrueBlue4ever

Outstanding read.  It's nice to be reminded of a part of the evolution in the game.  Thanks so much for doing this.  

In the 60's there were a couple of positions on defense that were called Monster & Rover. I assume Monster would be on the DL & Rover would be at linebacker. Anyone know?

9 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

In the 60's there were a couple of positions on defense that were called Monster & Rover. I assume Monster would be on the DL & Rover would be at linebacker. Anyone know?

I honestly don't know, but I always thought "rover" best described what the safety position was meant to be.

On the 'Monster' defense we ran in the high school in the 70's, the monster spot was a LB/DE hybrid. Basically, an 11 man defense with 1 player freed up to go where he was needed.

I'll admit that I have never heard of the monster position before.

I found this on Yahoo Answers

Quote

It is not usually referred to as the Rover anymore, as defenses have evolved. In past years (several decades ago) a rover was a strong safety in a 5 scheme ( 5 man line) -- which made him a hybrid linebacker/defensive back.

For example, in a 5-2 Monster Defense, the rover was the "monster". You had a 5 man line and 2 LBs, and the rover/strong safety/monster (or "The Wolfman" as he was known in Joe Paterno's defense of the late 60's/early 70's at Penn State) might line up on the offense's strong side, or on the wide side of the field, or in a position to "key" on the offenses top performer and go wherever he went.

In an older version of the 4-3 defense, the Rover was generally a defensive back who would rotate in a zone to come up and support on runing plays and cover the flats on passing plays.

However, in the 4-3, while the rover was a DB, the Monster was the Middle Linebacker.

You can still find a "rover" at the high school & small-college level, but not much any longer in major colleges.

There are a number of variations in terminology - anyone remember the Jack position from 2011?

1 hour ago, Stats Junkie said:

I'll admit that I have never heard of the monster position before.

I found this on Yahoo Answers

There are a number of variations in terminology - anyone remember the Jack position from 2011?

I don't know Jack.

On 2018-12-13 at 10:56 AM, Stats Junkie said:

I'll admit that I have never heard of the monster position before.

I found this on Yahoo Answers

There are a number of variations in terminology - anyone remember the Jack position from 2011?

First thing I thought of as I read this post.

On 2018-12-12 at 8:06 AM, TrueBlue4ever said:

This is a fantastic history lesson, and highlights some of the intricacies and difficulties in doing a position by position poll over eras, which is hopefully part of the fun of this exercise. I cannot like this post enough - brilliant job!

Great Read - on now to create my Winnipeg Blue Bomber Formation Controversy. Everyone points to Bud Grant as the creator of the Wing-T Formation ( Classic Wing-T Formation (100 / 900, Right / Left) ... This formations uses a halfback (or diveback) in the backfield behind the weak side tackle, and a wingback off the tight end. The fullback is in his normal position, 4 yards back from the ball directly behind the quarterback who is under center.) Bud used it very successfully and ran it all the time. HOWEVER he did not invent it. Bud actually copied it from Forest Evashevski when Forest was the head coach at Iowa. Man what a team he had. Randy Duncan, Willie Fleming, Bobby Jeter, Ray Rauch etc. They just ran over teams. Won the Rose Bowl if I remember correctly. When I was playing ball all the schools ran the Wing-T and some even ran what was called a Single Wing Formation with a "Spinning Back"  etc.

4 minutes ago, BBRT said:

Great Read - on now to create my Winnipeg Blue Bomber Formation Controversy. Everyone points to Bud Grant as the creator of the Wing-T Formation ( Classic Wing-T Formation (100 / 900, Right / Left) ... This formations uses a halfback (or diveback) in the backfield behind the weak side tackle, and a wingback off the tight end. The fullback is in his normal position, 4 yards back from the ball directly behind the quarterback who is under center.) Bud used it very successfully and ran it all the time. HOWEVER he did not invent it. Bud actually copied it from Forest Evashevski when Forest was the head coach at Iowa. Man what a team he had. Randy Duncan, Willie Fleming, Bobby Jeter, Ray Rauch etc. They just ran over teams. Won the Rose Bowl if I remember correctly. When I was playing ball all the schools ran the Wing-T and some even ran what was called a Single Wing Formation with a "Spinning Back"  etc.

You're thinking Double Wing. The qb was called The Spinner in the Double Wing. He would spin the opposite way from the hole the running back  was going thru . The Fullback was called The Sniffer as he was lined up just behind The Spinner's butt. Like a yard behind. As an OC we used the Double Wing in bantam football here in Calgary. The Ol had no splits. It was just push ahead for the Hoggies & the back find the hole. In the Wedge, all the linemen aim for the same DL pushing him back about 15 yards. It was an offense from the 1920's but man, did it work! Only problem was leakage as DL could come around the Wedge & tackle the RB from behind. Only problem for the defense was by the time someone did we already got the first down.

I switched to that offense mid season as we had a qb who could make all the throws but only one receiver who could catch.  Our kids dropped so many catchable balls & we left TDs on the field every game. And we were 1-3 going nowhere including being shut out twice in 4 games. After a 15-0 loss to a bantam team we should have defeated, frustrated I went home, stayed up all night & brought in a Double Wing offense. Our OL loved it, our backs loved it, our qb loved it as he got to do a bootleg behind The Wedge & block downfield which he also loved. Our receivers loved it as they didn't have to catch anymore so the pressure was off & all they did was block. We went from a running attack of less than 50 yards a game to almost 300 yards a game.  We won some ball games last half of the season & actually made the playoffs. Every defense hated playing us because we were such a physical offense. 

Edited December 23, 20187 yr by SpeedFlex27

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You're thinking Double Wing. The qb was called The Spinner in the Double Wing. He would spin the opposite way from the hole the running back  was going thru . The Fullback was called The Sniffer as he was lined up just behind The Spinner's butt. Like a yard behind. As an OC we used the Double Wing in bantam football here in Calgary. The Ol had no splits. It was just push ahead for the Hoggies & the back find the hole. In the Wedge, all the linemen aim for the same DL pushing him back about 15 yards. It was an offense from the 1920's but man, did it work! Only problem was leakage as DL could come around the Wedge & tackle the RB from behind. Only problem for the defense was by the time someone did we already got the first down.

I switched to that offense mid season as we had a qb who could make all the throws but only one receiver who could catch.  Our kids dropped so many catchable balls & we left TDs on the field every game. And we were 1-3 going nowhere including being shut out twice in 4 games. After a 15-0 loss to a bantam team we should have defeated, frustrated I went home, stayed up all night & brought in a Double Wing offense. Our OL loved it, our backs loved it, our qb loved it as he got to do a bootleg behind The Wedge & block downfield which he also loved. Our receivers loved it as they didn't have to catch anymore so the pressure was off & all they did was block. We went from a running attack of less than 50 yards a game to almost 300 yards a game.  We won some ball games last half of the season & actually made the playoffs. Every defense hated playing us because we were such a physical offense. 

Actually a number of schools in the late 50's and early 60's ran the Single Wing - I think Ohio State ran it at times. I know that Iowa State ran it and had an All American Half Back (Dave Hopkins I think was his name). But you are right Wing T did exist but Iowa ran the Double Wing as they had two great half backs. I am actually looking for old film on the Single Wing just to refresh my memory.

2 hours ago, BBRT said:

Actually a number of schools in the late 50's and early 60's ran the Single Wing - I think Ohio State ran it at times. I know that Iowa State ran it and had an All American Half Back (Dave Hopkins I think was his name). But you are right Wing T did exist but Iowa ran the Double Wing as they had two great half backs. I am actually looking for old film on the Single Wing just to refresh my memory.

There are HS football teams in the States today that still run Double Wing & rack up hundreds of yards each game rushing.  I don't think there are any who run single wing as their base offense.  The Wing T is another offense that is great for misdirection. It employs 4 running backs. I think the Bombers ran the Wing T offense. Ken Ploen ran that offense at Iowa & Bud Grant wanted to run it here so he recruited Ploen right out of college. They used it with great success for a decade. 

The Double Wing & Wing T are still used today & are dangerous, viable offenses. 

Edited December 23, 20187 yr by SpeedFlex27

For anyone interested, the different Wing Offenses.

 

https://wingt-coach.com/rick-darlingtons-single-wing-power-series/

 

 

http://www.coachwyatt.com/system.html

 

 

https://www.football-tutorials.com/wing-t-offense/

Edited December 23, 20187 yr by SpeedFlex27

16 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

There are HS football teams in the States today that still run Double Wing & rack up hundreds of yards each game rushing.  I don't think there are any who run single wing as their base offense.  The Wing T is another offense that is great for misdirection. It employs 4 running backs. I think the Bombers ran the Wing T offense. Ken Ploen ran that offense at Iowa & Bud Grant wanted to run it here so he recruited Ploen right out of college. They used it with great success for a decade. 

The Double Wing & Wing T are still used today & are dangerous, viable offenses. 

Man i forgot about Ken Pleon. I probably mentioned this previously but I grew up in Des Moines Iowa and delivered papers for the Des Moines Register. If we sold enough papers (subscriptions etc.) we got free tickets and a bus ride to Iowa City to see the Hawkeyes play. That would be in the late 1957's as we moved to Dallas early 1960's. Ken was the Iowa QB and I can remember him to this day. Even now (I am in my 70's) I still remember those trips to Iowa City and the the Hawkeye teams from those days. He had long retired when I ended up in the Peg in 1981 but I still remember him on CJOB back in those days.

1 hour ago, BBRT said:

Man i forgot about Ken Pleon. I probably mentioned this previously but I grew up in Des Moines Iowa and delivered papers for the Des Moines Register. If we sold enough papers (subscriptions etc.) we got free tickets and a bus ride to Iowa City to see the Hawkeyes play. That would be in the late 1957's as we moved to Dallas early 1960's. Ken was the Iowa QB and I can remember him to this day. Even now (I am in my 70's) I still remember those trips to Iowa City and the the Hawkeye teams from those days. He had long retired when I ended up in the Peg in 1981 but I still remember him on CJOB back in those days.

You got to see him play before the rest of us. He played in the 1957 Rose Bowl & the Grey Cup that year. 

Edited December 24, 20187 yr by SpeedFlex27

On 2018-12-07 at 9:38 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

David Shaw deserves to be on that list. 

According to Cactus Jack, David Shaw was related to the only Japanese player in the league at that time. Rick Shaw. 

4 hours ago, Rod Black said:

According to Cactus Jack, David Shaw was related to the only Japanese player in the league at that time. Rick Shaw. 

 

To nitpick, rickshaws are Chinese.

5 hours ago, Rod Black said:

According to Cactus Jack, David Shaw was related to the only Japanese player in the league at that time. Rick Shaw. 

You mean Chinese. Rick Shaw. As in...  RickShaw... or... rickshaw. They weren't related. Rick was white. David was black. 

This thread got massively disgustingly racist in a real hurry... 

8 minutes ago, Noeller said:

This thread got massively disgustingly racist in a real hurry... 

That's a bit of an extreme reaction.

22 minutes ago, Noeller said:

This thread got massively disgustingly racist in a real hurry... 

You want the racism??? You can't handle the racism!!

3 hours ago, Noeller said:

This thread got massively disgustingly racist in a real hurry... 

So, I want to say something without degenerating this thread into insults, accusations & name calling. Saying Rick Shaw was white & David Shaw was black & therefore aren't related is somehow considered racist but not fact? Saying the name of Rick Shaw who is Caucasian is also a similar but different word to a rickshaw which is a 1 man cart used to transport people in China  but not Japan (to correct an error of reference) is somehow racist but  not fact? Other than myself mentioning skin colour between the two Shaws to clarify they are not related thru marriage or birth in the event Jack Wells was being serious , there is no "disgusting racism" here.

For clarification, there is none of this on display in this thread...

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism

 

I have yet to see anyone on this board who believes in or espouses the views of racism. 

 

 

Edited December 26, 20187 yr by SpeedFlex27

RESULTS

Coach: Bud Grant

GM: Cal Murphy

QB: Ken Ploen

RB: Leo Lewis

RB: Charles Roberts

C: John Bonk

G: Nick Bastaja

G: David Black

T: Stanley Bryant

T: Chris Walby

SB: Milt Stegall

SB: Joe Poplawski

WR: James Murphy

WR: Jeff Boyd

TE: Ernie Pitts

REC: Terrence Edwards

DT: Doug Brown

DT: Stan Mikawos

DE: Herb Gray

DE: Tony Norman

ILB: Greg Battle

ILB: Barrin Simpson

OLB: Tyrone Jones

OLB: James West

CB: Rod Hill

CB: Less Browne

HB: Juran Bolden

HB: Jonathan Hefney

S: Paul Bennett

PK: Justin Medlock

P: Bob Cameron

PR: Keith Stokes

KR: Albert Johnson III

ST: Wade Miller

Edited May 30, 20196 yr by TrueBlue4ever

On 2018-12-24 at 3:30 PM, Tracker said:

 

To nitpick, rickshaws are Chinese.

I used this method of transport in Hanoi Vietnam one time.

I think you can go ahead and put Stegall in at SB, Sellers at FB, and Walby at OT, not much debate required there!

On 2018-12-28 at 4:04 PM, TrueBlue4ever said:

RESULTS

Coach: Bud Grant

GM: Cal Murphy

QB: Ken Ploen

RB: Leo Lewis

RB: Charles Roberts

C: John Bonk

G: Nick Bastaja

G: David Black

T: Stanley Bryant

T: Chris Walby

SB: Milt Stegall

SB: Joe Poplawski

WR: James Murphy

WR: Jeff Boyd

TE: Ernie Pitts

REC: Terrence Edwards

DT: Doug Brown

DT: Stan Mikawos

DE: Herb Gray

DE: Tony Norman

ILB: Greg Battle

ILB: Barrin Simpson

OLB: Tyrone Jones

OLB: James West

CB: Rod Hill

CB: Less Browne

HB: Juran Bolden

HB: Jonathan Hefney

S: Paul Bennett

PK: Justin Medlock

P: Bob Cameron

PR: Keith Stokes

KR: Albert Johnson III

ST: Wade Miller

Final roster. 

Mount Rushmore is Stegall, Walby, Ploen, and Grant. 

Edited May 30, 20196 yr by TrueBlue4ever