As we settle in for the long off-season, and add another year to the futility chart for no Grey Cup championship, I thought a little winter project may keep things interesting. So I propose to create "the definitive" list of the all-time greatest Blue Bombers by position, as voted on by MBB members, covering all 89 years of this team's existence. Each week from now through April, we will focus on one position and decide who are the best all-time Bombers at that spot, completing the whole team as we enter training camp for 2019.

The team will be position-specific, so rather than, for example, picking 3 middle linebackers in the "linebacker" spot, I will focus one week on middle/inside linebackers and one week on outside linebackers. Same will go for slotback/wide receiver rather than just "receiver", safety/halfback/cornerback vs. "defensive back", and fullback and tailback vs. "running back". Also, where a player may have excelled in 2 areas, you are only to judge their merit for the position that they are nominated for that week (ex. Charlie Roberts could show up both as a running back or special teams returner, but when voting for him as a returner, do NOT consider his contributions as a running back in your overall estimation of him, and vice versa. Same would go for Rod Hill - ignore his special teams ability to block punts when considering his abilities as a defensive back, and if a kicker did both punting and placekicking, analyze each facet separately rather than their overall impact).

Because of changing offensive and defensive philosophies, I am going to expand the team in a couple of ways. On defence, rather than deciding between a 3-4 or a 4-3 defence, I will pick 2 inside/middle linebackers and two outside linebackers, and also two rush end/linemen and two interior linemen/nose tackles. To balance this on offence, there will be a tailback, fullback, slotback and wide receiver position, but also a #5 receiver position to account for the newer 5-1 offensive set.

The defence will be chosen first, then special teams, then offence, and finally coach and GM. I will try to dig into the archives so as not to omit any candidates, but I may miss a few, so send in a nomination either as a response to this message or as a PM to me, and I will include that person on the list and try to highlight their accomplishments for your consideration .Then everybody votes and the top vote getter (or two in some cases) will be on the team.

We will start with the cornerback position. You can nominate any cornerback from any era from today up until this Friday, and I will compile the list. On this Friday (December 7) I will post the nominees for people to vote on, and the following Friday (December 14th) the voting will close, with the top 2 vote getters being selected. Also this Friday (the 7th) I will open the nominations for defensive halfback, and that list of candidates will be open for voting on the 14th, and so on.

The order will be:

Cornerbacks (2), Defensive Halfbacks (2), Safety (1), Outside Linebackers (2), Middle/Inside Linebackers (2), Defensive Ends (2), Defensive Tackles (2)

Place kicker (1), Punter (1), Returner (both punt and kick) (1), Special Teamer (includes long snapper, special teams tackler, or punt block specialist) (1)

Centre (1), Offensive Guards (2), Offensive Tackles (2), Wide Receivers (2), Slotbacks (2), 5th receiver (#3 vote getter in Wide Receiver vs. #3 vote getter at Slotback in a special head-to-head runoff vote), Fullback (1), Tailback/Running Back (1), Quarterback (1)

Coach (1), GM (1)

Hopefully this piques people's interest, and gets us through the snowy season.

So off the top of my head for Cornerback nominees, I would suggest, in alpahabetical order:

Roy Bennett, Juran Bolden, Less Browne, Rod Hill, Jovon Johnson, Reggie Pierson, David Shaw (believe he played corner), **** Thornton.

Not on this list because I THINK they played halfback were Ken Hailey, James Jefferson and Ken Ploen, but I stand to be corrected.

I cannot think of anyone else who jumps out at me, but I am certain that I have forgotten someone (and please be mindful of the distinction of cornerback vs. halfback - if I have made an error let me know!). Keep sending in suggestions for nominations and I will create the voting list on Friday.

I promise future postings on this thread will be shorter.

 

 

Edited December 28, 20187 yr by TrueBlue4ever

2 hours ago, White Out said:

Bob Cameron is the epitome of "Bomber-ness" but Ryan was obviously a better punter skill wise. Tough call.

Back at the old stadium in the Chairman's lounge, I once saw Bob Cameron chug a full beer, get up on the table and plank (I think thats what the kids called it), and hold himself up there for almost a minute.  This wasn't more than 6-7 years ago, so he would have been in his late 50's.  That was legendary stuff!  Then he went and crushed another beer with Walby!

17 hours ago, Floyd said:

There's some good guys but no one is in the same league as Kennerd/Cameron 

Cameron won a fricken grey cup for us - the end.

As well, third string QB :-)

4 hours ago, HardCoreBlue said:

As well, third string QB 🙂

Well, more like 6th string.  He was never seriously considered a qb in the CFL. 

17 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

No jumping ahead!

Sorry!

So is this just going to be open discussion... or will you list a poll for each position and we can vote?

I'd have to agree with the consensus that Hill and Browne should be the winners... with Bolden as a close third...

12 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Well, more like 6th string.  He was never seriously considered a qb in the CFL. 

Yes but more my point was how integral he was to our team at that time. 

5 hours ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Yes but more my point was how integral he was to our team at that time. 

He was a great punter & that was his job as well as holding for converts & placekicking. His punting made him stand out. Not throwing the ball.  He never actually suited up & played qb but he'd throw the odd pass out of punt formation or from a botched snap on a field goal. I think he was our best punter ever but I don't know what you mean as integral. As in other ways

20 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

He was a great punter & that was his job as well as holding for converts & placekicking. His punting made him stand out. Not throwing the ball.  He never actually suited up & played qb but he'd throw the odd pass out of punt formation or from a botched snap on a field goal. I think he was our best punter ever but I don't know what you mean as integral. As in other ways

Reliability as we knew he was going to get the job done (best punter ever into the wind, no small feat in Canadian weather), longevity as we didn't have to worry about filling the punters position for many years, great teammate, good community member . . .  

Edited December 6, 20187 yr by HardCoreBlue
Added best punter into the wind.

9 hours ago, bearpants said:

Sorry!

So is this just going to be open discussion... or will you list a poll for each position and we can vote?

I'd have to agree with the consensus that Hill and Browne should be the winners... with Bolden as a close third...

I will throw out a bunch of names for nomination at the start, and then wait for other suggestions. I will then put out a formal poll on a Friday and people have one week to vote from that list. I will try to give a brief bio of each candidate so people can analyze the options. So tomorrow I will actually put out a list of candidates to vote on, and people will have until next Friday to vote.

At the same time as the voting list comes out, I will post the next list of candidates for the another post for nominations for the next category. Debate and discussion can take place on the "nomination" post over the course of the week, and then a formal voting list will occur the next Friday. So one week to nominate and discuss, one week to vote. I will keep those posts separate, so the voting post can be just for voting, to keep things clean. If I find that the voting happens quickly, I will shorten the voting timeline to expedite things (maybe have nominations and discussion from Monday to Friday, and voting from Friday to Sunday - I'll play it by ear as we go along).

I vote for Milt Stegall.

One final thing, the nomination and bio will only consider the player's time with the Blue Bombers, so for example someone like Geroy Simon may be excluded despite a great career if the bulk of his accomplishments come with another club.

2 hours ago, Floyd said:

I vote for Milt Stegall.

For everything.

Glad to see that consideration is being given to yesteryear players. There are many during my younger years that come to mind for consideration but must state the game was much different back then....consider Herb Gray, Buddy Tinsley, Leo Lewis Jerry James to mention a few.

An interesting exercise but think the eras of football cannot be compared equally

20 hours ago, Old Bomber Fan said:

Glad to see that consideration is being given to yesteryear players. There are many during my younger years that come to mind for consideration but must state the game was much different back then....consider Herb Gray, Buddy Tinsley, Leo Lewis Jerry James to mention a few.

An interesting exercise but think the eras of football cannot be compared equally

I will try to reflect that in the bios. Hopefully listing divisional and CFL all-star nods will reflect how they stacked up against their peers at that time.

Edited December 7, 20187 yr by TrueBlue4ever

10 hours ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Reliability as we knew he was going to get the job done (best punter ever into the wind, no small feat in Canadian weather), longevity as we didn't have to worry about filling the punters position for many years, great teammate, good community member . . .  

I thought you meant that he did more than punting as in played other positions. 

On ‎05‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 1:55 PM, TrueBlue4ever said:

Bolden usually covered the opposition’s best receiver so he was interchangeable, but he was listed as a corner, so I will stick with him in that spot. 

Overruling myself, I have seen places where Bolden was listed as a halfback, so I will consider him for that position instead. of at cornerback, so he will not appear on this week's list of nominees.

Bolden was unique...he was a corner by trade...and played there...but they also used him to basically play man on a teams best receiver, and actually had no real "defined" position tho may have took up a space on a depth chart...he just played cover man

Only one DB in the history of the league has won MODP.

On ‎04‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 10:30 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

My answer:

 

Corners:  Rod Hill

                      Less Browne

Other players that deserve consideration are Paul Brule, Doug Strong, Roy Bennett, Paul Williams & Gord Rowland. **** Thornton was a Safety. 

Bennett will get listed. I show Rowland as a Linebacker/running back, so he won't be on this list. Paul Brule was listed as a free safety (although he makes mention of being converted to a cornerback in an interview) so I will consider him in the "safety" category (as I will for Thornton, as I indicated earlier). Paul Williams had his greatest success with Saskatchewan (his 2 all-star nods came while playing for the Roughies) so I will exclude him due to little info on his Winnipeg contributions. Doug Strong played 5 years and had 15 total Ints., with zero team award nominations, divisional or CFL all-star nods, so in my humble opinion he falls short of the "all-time great" nominees. But I thank you for bringing each case to my attention. Furthermore, if anyone feels I have omitted a player in the final "voting" thread (coming soon!) I invite you make  a case for them for inclusion in your own response. Glad to see people invested in this exercise.

9 minutes ago, Booch said:

Bolden was unique...he was a corner by trade...and played there...but they also used him to basically play man on a teams best receiver, and actually had no real "defined" position tho may have took up a space on a depth chart...he just played cover man

On a club website they list him as a halfback during his exceptional 2001 season, so I will defer to that source, but he was a true "rover" who would play whatever position the opposing team's best receiver was at, and he was a true "shutdown" DB because teams actively avoided throwing to him because he was a threat to pick off every pass. He "only" had 6 ints. that year, because teams only threw in his direction maybe once a game at most. Thanks for you input - he will be featured in the "halfback" nominees for sure.

4 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

On a club website they list him as a halfback during his exceptional 2001 season, so I will defer to that source, but he was a true "rover" who would play whatever position the opposing team's best receiver was at, and he was a true "shutdown" DB because teams actively avoided throwing to him because he was a threat to pick off every pass. He "only" had 6 ints. that year, because teams only threw in his direction maybe once a game at most. Thanks for you input - he will be featured in the "halfback" nominees for sure.

He had the biggest pick of the year though to clinch the East Final

 

5 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Bennett will get listed. I show Rowland as a Linebacker/running back, so he won't be on this list. Paul Brule was listed as a free safety (although he makes mention of being converted to a cornerback in an interview) so I will consider him in the "safety" category (as I will for Thornton, as I indicated earlier). Paul Williams had his greatest success with Saskatchewan (his 2 all-star nods came while playing for the Roughies) so I will exclude him due to little info on his Winnipeg contributions. Doug Strong played 5 years and had 15 total Ints., with zero team award nominations, divisional or CFL all-star nods, so in my humble opinion he falls short of the "all-time great" nominees. But I thank you for bringing each case to my attention. Furthermore, if anyone feels I have omitted a player in the final "voting" thread (coming soon!) I invite you make  a case for them for inclusion in your own response. Glad to see people invested in this exercise.

Williams was a versatile athlete. He could play wingback ( now called slot) or corner & returned  KO's.  He also celebrated in the end zone a very unique dance after he scored a TD with what he called, "The Winnipeg Wiggle". When he played in Winnipeg he subbed on both sides of the ball. When he was traded to the Riders they moved him full time to corner where he became an all star. I wish there was a video of his dance as it was awesome!

Edited December 8, 20187 yr by SpeedFlex27

5 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Bennett will get listed. I show Rowland as a Linebacker/running back, so he won't be on this list. Paul Brule was listed as a free safety (although he makes mention of being converted to a cornerback in an interview) so I will consider him in the "safety" category (as I will for Thornton, as I indicated earlier). Paul Williams had his greatest success with Saskatchewan (his 2 all-star nods came while playing for the Roughies) so I will exclude him due to little info on his Winnipeg contributions. Doug Strong played 5 years and had 15 total Ints., with zero team award nominations, divisional or CFL all-star nods, so in my humble opinion he falls short of the "all-time great" nominees. But I thank you for bringing each case to my attention. Furthermore, if anyone feels I have omitted a player in the final "voting" thread (coming soon!) I invite you make  a case for them for inclusion in your own response. Glad to see people invested in this exercise.

David Shaw deserves to be on that list. 

We should have a poll of the best posters on MBB - thus getting a poster all-star team.

Here is a little history on the evolution of player positions

In the early days, the wingline (O-Line) consisted of 1 x snapback (centre), 2 x inside wing (Guard), 2 x middle wing (Tackle) & 2 x outside wing (End)

The backfield consisted of 1 x quarterback, 3 x halfback

The final position was a flying wing (FW). Flying indicated that the player possessed the speed necessary to make end runs (similar to a halfback). Wing represented the physical stature needed to fill on the wingline. The combination of size and speed also made the FW the ideal candidate to take the snap from centre on an extension play (similar to rugby).

Mid 1930's - the increased American influence saw the modern terminology for the O-Line come into vogue. The 3 HBs became 2 HBs and a FB (fullback). American coaches were used to operating an 11 man formation and they didn't know how to incorporate the FW. During the 1940's the FW often lined up as a flanker simply as a way of staying out of the way.  

By the late 1940's, the FW started to become more involved in the offence as a true flanker (receiver).

1955 - Winnipeg adopted a new backfield alignment.   HB  FB  FB  HB

1964 - Winnipeg became the last team to adopt a more modern look to the offence. The ends were now defined as a tight end (TE) and a split end (SE). The backfield now consisted of HB  FB  HB  FL (flanker)

~1970 - the wingback (precursor to the slotback) was introduced, replacing one of the HB positions. The wingback (WB) was used as a runner and a receiver.

During the 1970's we saw the introduction of the term runningback which eventually replaced the HB.

By the late 1970's there was another change in positions. The SE & FL were renamed wide receivers (WR). The WB & TE became slotbacks. The backfield now consisted of a RB & FB.

 

Prior to 1950, substitutions were limited in Canadian football.  If a player subbed out of the game, he could not return until the following quarter. As a result, players were required to play both ways which meant there were no formal positions for the defensive side of the ball.

A common lineup could include   E  T  G  G  T  E  on the d-line with HB  FB  C  HB  in the second row and the QB occupying a safety position. The FW would often lineup based on where the opposing FW was positioned.

1950 - With free substitutions now permitted we saw the introduction of formal defensive positions. Winnipeg ran a 5-4-3 lineup with DE  DT  MG  DT  DE  on the line, CLB  ILB  ILB  CLB  as linebackers & DHB  S  DHB  in the defensive backfield.   MG = middle guard, CLB = corner linebacker.

1965 - Winnipeg shifted to a 4-3-5 defensive alignment. It saw   DE  DT  DT  DE  on the line with OLB  MLB  OLB as linebackers and  CB  DHB  S  DHB  CB  in the defensive backfield.

Winnipeg has also used a 3-4-5 formation (common throughout the Cal Murphy years). It saw  DE  NT  DE  on the line &  OLB  ILB  ILB  OLB  as linebackers.

 

I am not sure if this clears things up or just muddies the water a little.

10 minutes ago, Stats Junkie said:

Here is a little history on the evolution of player positions

In the early days, the wingline (O-Line) consisted of 1 x snapback (centre), 2 x inside wing (Guard), 2 x middle wing (Tackle) & 2 x outside wing (End)

The backfield consisted of 1 x quarterback, 3 x halfback

The final position was a flying wing (FW). Flying indicated that the player possessed the speed necessary to make end runs (similar to a halfback). Wing represented the physical stature needed to fill on the wingline. The combination of size and speed also made the FW the ideal candidate to take the snap from centre on an extension play (similar to rugby).

Mid 1930's - the increased American influence saw the modern terminology for the O-Line come into vogue. The 3 HBs became 2 HBs and a FB (fullback). American coaches were used to operating an 11 man formation and they didn't know how to incorporate the FW. During the 1940's the FW often lined up as a flanker simply as a way of staying out of the way.  

By the late 1940's, the FW started to become more involved in the offence as a true flanker (receiver).

1955 - Winnipeg adopted a new backfield alignment.   HB  FB  FB  HB

1964 - Winnipeg became the last team to adopt a more modern look to the offence. The ends were now defined as a tight end (TE) and a split end (SE). The backfield now consisted of HB  FB  HB  FL (flanker)

~1970 - the wingback (precursor to the slotback) was introduced, replacing one of the HB positions. The wingback (WB) was used as a runner and a receiver.

During the 1970's we saw the introduction of the term runningback which eventually replaced the HB.

By the late 1970's there was another change in positions. The SE & FL were renamed wide receivers (WR). The WB & TE became slotbacks. The backfield now consisted of a RB & FB.

 

Prior to 1950, substitutions were limited in Canadian football.  If a player subbed out of the game, he could not return until the following quarter. As a result, players were required to play both ways which meant there were no formal positions for the defensive side of the ball.

A common lineup could include   E  T  G  G  T  E  on the d-line with HB  FB  C  HB  in the second row and the QB occupying a safety position. The FW would often lineup based on where the opposing FW was positioned.

1950 - With free substitutions now permitted we saw the introduction of formal defensive positions. Winnipeg ran a 5-4-3 lineup with DE  DT  MG  DT  DE  on the line, CLB  ILB  ILB  CLB  as linebackers & DHB  S  DHB  in the defensive backfield.   MG = middle guard, CLB = corner linebacker.

1965 - Winnipeg shifted to a 4-3-5 defensive alignment. It saw   DE  DT  DT  DE  on the line with OLB  MLB  OLB as linebackers and  CB  DHB  S  DHB  CB  in the defensive backfield.

Winnipeg has also used a 3-4-5 formation (common throughout the Cal Murphy years). It saw  DE  NT  DE  on the line &  OLB  ILB  ILB  OLB  as linebackers.

 

I am not sure if this clears things up or just muddies the water a little.

This is a fantastic history lesson, and highlights some of the intricacies and difficulties in doing a position by position poll over eras, which is hopefully part of the fun of this exercise. I cannot like this post enough - brilliant job!