BomberFan

That must cost a fortune ;-)

That must cost a fortune ;-)

Didn't I see you in the $2,50 Salisbury House end-zone seats?
I was the kid tossing the peewee football. LOL!

I get the sense that it works the other way too in terms of expectations. I can see how fans who have never seen a winner get down on the team more easily than they might if we had had that breakthrough. But on the other side of it, because many fans have never seen the top of the mountain, moral victories after a loss like in Calgary suffice, and the "positive" fans will rip the "negative" ones (I hate these labels, BTW, but will use them for argument's sake) for being all doom and gloom. Objectivity has been lost on both sides. I am on the far side of 45, and started following the team around the 50th anniversary season. Became a "true" fan (understood the game, knew the players, could rattle off the stats, etc.) right around the 1984 season. Pretty damn fine time to become a fan, let me tell you. That team is still the best all-around team I have ever seen, hands down.
Fans who witnessed the mirage of 2001 may see that as the high water mark, but they had nothing on the dominance of that '84 team. Not only would they not lose at home, they would simply crush every team that came into Winnipeg. Every loss on the road was a disappointment, because this team expected to win all the time, and so did its fans. A loss would have received the same criticism as it would today, but the debate would not spiral into the "sky is falling" hystrionics that some "negatrons" do throw out there (because they've seen the same movie so many times before) or that some "positrons" falsely accused the critics of throwing out there (I'd argue there are a greater number of false complaints from the positive side about how defeatist the comments from the critics are, rather than the actual number of defeatist comments themselves, and then the fight is on again, but to be fair it is easier to be negative with all the failures of the past 25 years, so I get that can grate on those who want to believe in this team).
I am not happy about the loss and don't wish to find positives in it. Does this make me a negatron who thinks we need to blow up the team yet again? Absolutely not. I like the direction we are going in, and know that losses happen, so no need to get too low after one and paint the whole season or regime with a bad brush. In the same breath, no need to say all is well after a win. Just like we gave this game away with dumb mistakes and can feel positive with outplaying Calgary, so too could you argue Montreal did the same to us last week but for the punt block and pick-6 INT. But I will pick apart the mistakes made and not just accept it as growing pains, and say we are moving forwards in spite of it. A loss is not a step forward. If you truly believe that, then your expectations are way too low, and the club will have no motivation to get better since they feel no pressure to respond to a fan base that has minimal expectations.
Bottom line, I have seen a truly great team in the Cal Murphy era that never accepted losing well, did not look for "moral victories", and would call out mistakes on stuff like running punts backwards, time count violations, 107 yard drives where our line was dominated, and brutal turnovers at the worst time without trying to gloss them over. That's what I grew up on and that's how I view the loss. No excuses. That's not "sky is falling" mentality, it's "play like a champion and expect to be a champion" which was the spirit of this team in the 80's and early 90's. It was a different world, both in sports and in life. Coaches were the ones in charge, not the players. Bad play would get you benched, size of your paycheck be damned. Graduation was reserved for grade 12, not every year. You got ribbons and medals for winning, not just for participating. Mediocrity was not cause for a celebration.
As for what can be done about this for the old-timers, my solution for myself in the short term is to avoid posting for 24 hours after a game, win or loss, since the boards are ruled by emotion and not common sense, objectivity is out the window, and too many are too concerned with attacking those with an opposite viewpoint rather than actually debating the merits of the point being made. Long term, realize that next week is another game, so this one can be forgotten soon enough.

I've never seen a Grey Cup win, I was 1 year old the last time they won it, so I'm dying for a championship as much as anyone. Maybe I don't know what it's like, but I know what it's like to watch them lose in the finals and it's been painful.
 
That being said, all I can ask for is for them to show progress. They're heading in the right direction and sure, you can isolate a variety of identifiable issues with the team, but no team is perfect. So far through 4 games, we're setting ourselves up well as a team that needs to be taken seriously and a team that, when at full capacity, can win on any given night. Players are getting better - Darvin Adams is slowing starting to fit it, you can see it's starting to click for the new defenders like Westerman and Bass, Willy is completing almost 80% of his passes and our OL is doing a much better job than they were last year. It looks like we're on the rise and that's really all I can ask for. I don't expect to go 20-0. I just expect us to compete and hopefully have the bounces go our way.

Time for the Rod Black Drinking Game™
 

Some interesting stuff. Especially about Cal Murphy and Chris' injuries and how they were handled back then compared to today.
 
http://3downnation.com/2015/07/13/sitting-down-with-chris-walby/
 
 

Big coming out party for Randle at OLB.....
...this guy was all over the field, tonight.....
Just as well....as J. Adams isn't going anywhere
....with a INT TD and some good hits...
Still waiting on Hurl.....not active enough at MLB....
Blue D having problems with crossing/drag patterns..
...in the the form of S. J. Green with 4 huge gains....
Bomber front 4 was better, but some ways to go.....
Westerman is getting there.....
Turner had flashes...but consistency an issue.....
Anderson still sort of MIA....
Bomber O moved the ball in the middle of the field....
.....but things came crashing to a halt, in red zone....
Missed a lot of 2nd down conversions.....
Bomber run game struggled tonight.....
Cotton gave the effort and did some hard plowing......
...but got planted, a number of times.....
Long corner patterns to Denmark.....
...and short balls to Moore...Bomber pass O staples....
Kolhert did his thing....steady player...
Meanwhile... D. Adams still imitating Maytag repair man....
Some of the run plays are too slow to develop....
Cato gave up a couple of picks....costing the Als 10 pts....
...but showed poise and accuracy from the pocket....
If he keeps this up, Montreal will be tough.....
.with veteran play makers on O, and very tough front 7 on D....
Sutton runs hard...but some tackles not made....
Liam H. has some kind of phobia, about the extra point....
...but was 3 for 3 on FG's and punted very well.......
Huge tipping point with 17 sec left in 1st half...
...as a Shell punt block and Sherman recovery....
...gave the Bombers a huge TD.....
Als Bowman is still a top player in the league.....
Hefney had some hard hits, for the Als
Montreal is a physical team....and Bombers brought their wood...
....real hard hitting, tough grinding game.....
...when you just need to find a way......
...especially when you don't score a TD on offense....
Montreal's 4 turnovers and Blue's O.. was probably that way.....
Huge hustle plays from Johnson, Leggett, Bucknor, Sherman...
Still too many penalties, taken by Bombers...
Still too many penalties in these games
Flag fests are really slowing down things....
Sometimes you just can't get the style points...just the win..
Other times you just can't get the fancy label...just the gin..

I'm wondering which Bomber team shows up.  The one that looked like a real football team and beat up the Riders or the one that looked like they were completely lost against Hamilton?
 
Is our offense really the one that chewed up yards on the ground and in the air against Regina or the one that threw Int's and rang up 2 and outs vs Montreal?
 
Our defense has been consistently bad in both games, but we will be facing a rookie QB, right out of college with one game of experience under his belt and some film on him. If we give up over 400 yards again, then something is seriously wrong no matter if O'Shea is worried or not about it.
 
The biggest question is:  Is Willy really OK or not? I know I'll be hold my breath every time he gets hit and I know I won't be alone.
 
We are completely healthy for the first time in a couple of years and Montreal has a ton of injuries (7 on the 1 game and 10 on the 6 game including Crompton, Hebert, and Woods)
 
On paper, we should win this one, but games aren't played on paper,

14 days seems like a nice middle ground. Honestly I would like to go 30 days but you have to draw the line somewhere.
Maybe 8 days is enough. But the point is that no one knows. Not even doctors. Every case is different and concussions and post concussion syndrome are not black-and-white diagnoses.
By doing it my way, you risk a guy sitting on the bench for a week or two while healthy. By pushing the limits and bringing a guy back as soon as he appears symptom free, you risk a guy getting a serious brain injury. To me it is an easy decision.

I have to agree. Concussion protocols are almost laughably poor.
I'm not saying Willy was knocked out or has a concussion, but there is still a ton of work to be done in the field of brain injuries and concussion awareness. Anyone in here making definitive statements about head injuries or concussion protocols is simply trying to make themselves seem more knowledgeable than they actually are. The medical community at large is still looking for answers, they certainly don't exist on a football forum.
Willy took a hard shot to the head and it was enough that the medical pros felt it necessary to hold him out of the game. What do you have to lose by holding him our for a week? A football game. What does he have to lose by throwing him back in too early? His mental health, quality of life, and a myriad of other concerns related to concussions. This is why I would err on the side of caution. The risk-reward just doesn't make sense.
Again, not saying he has a concussion and not saying the team is being irresponsible. But if it was me in charge, it would be no play for 2 weeks after the last symptom or, if there were no symptoms, the initial hit. No exceptions.

Well, I'll be the downer... but I think this is terrible news.  I thought it was a bad idea to try and rush Buck back and I think its a bad idea to rush Willy back...  he was unconscious and looked completely out of it even when he got up. 
 
Sit him for 2-3 weeks just to be safe - I'd rather have him healthy for the last 8 games than re-injured in Game 4.

If you've been knocked out .. you've suffered a concussion.

Accidental or not, if you hit a QB in the head, leading with your helmet ,it should be 25 yards and an ejection. Its not 1960 anymore. End the bullshit.

I find O'Shea's comment about Willy being tough and therefore able to bounce right up offensive. The brain is pretty much a bowl of Jello with a bit of fat mixed in randomly. WTF does "tough " have to do with a blow and rebound impact on such an organ???

Their heads collided is the part that matters.  Nothing else.  Heads colliding = penalty in the CFL.
 
I don't fault the TiCat, I fault the refs for blowing the call.

This head shot crap makes me angry. O'Shea's remark that Willy is tough annoyed me. 
 
We all know Drew is tough, we saw him get killed last year more than enough times. That tough guy mentality is out of date when concussions are involved.
 
 
First of all, the play was over, Willy was going nowhere. The play was over. 
 
I don't think the players intent matters at all. That should be irrelevant. It's far too difficult to determine that in most  cases. 
 
 
If a player throws one punch, he's ejected, not matter how slight the harm.But nail the QB with your helmet, maybe cause permanent injury, and you get to carry on?    absurd.   I watched Calgary Hamilton, you could see how careful the Calgary D players were, to avoid hitting the Quarterback on the head.     
to me this is simple.
 
If the qb gets hit on the head or neck by a defenders helmet, the defender should be suspended. on the spot. thrown out of the game.
 
end of story.
 
 
We all know by now what happens to people with these head injuries.
 
This league needs to stop this, or I'll be losing interest in the CFL.
 
And Willy was out cold. For a while. He shouldn't play next game

Beyond anything he tweets, writes or says, the fact that Friesen has the gall to tweet that he's uninterested and essentially negligent in doing his job (watching sports, watching the Bombers practice) just kind of sums up why I have zero respect for him.

Silence would be better than bragging about doing nothing.
 
But since you asked ... what would I like to see?
 
Any emphasis on a particular area compared to other days or weeks? They're there every day, they must notice trends (if they were actually watching of course)
Kohlert is back from injury after a long layoff - how does he look? Any brace or wrap? Does he look like he's struggling with anything or is he a full go?
Paul Friesen just wrote a huge column blasting the Bombers for letting Willy play so soon after a concussion but I've never heard any comments on how he looks - which in this case, I will assume means he looks great because if he didn't, no doubt Friesen would be jumping at the opportunity to say we're mishandling things.
Da'rel Scott and Patrick Neufeld just started practicing again this week - what units are they lining up with? Are they seeing any work with the first or second units.
Injury updates on Nate Collins or Troy Stoudermire - Stoudermire especially is in that zone where he could be back soon and yet, we haven't heard anything.
There was apparently a new guy working with the RB / REC crews last week occasionally - any update on if he's still there or who he is?
Is JFG still running with the 1s or are Richards/Bastien stealing any reps after JFG's rough Thursday?
 
Just a start. One of those would be amazing.

For fun, I compared Burmi and Frolik for the last three years they were both in the NHL (2010-2013).
 
Burmistrov:
23 years old
194 Games
23 Goals
35 Assists
0.3 PPG
-12
+4
0
 
Frolik:
27 years old
188 Games
19 Goals
37 Assists
0.3 PPG
+1
-10
+5
 
At four years younger, upwards of $3 million+ cheaper and many years left of RFA status, Ill take Burmi.

What's wrong with being 33 years old? Real cup contenders always have at least a couple older players. Lots of guys can still play hockey when they are 33 or 34.

Just one win...that's all I ask. Give the home fans something to cheer about. My dad is coming through town tomorrow, randomly, and we haven't watched a Jets game of any kind together in at least 20 years. I'm hoping that will help conjure up some magic for one big W tomorrow...

Retaliation, it's gonna get called.

Stupid, selfish penalties (hi Mark Scheifele), defensive zone turnovers (hi Andrew Ladd - Where have you been the past month), and your best player being invisible (hi Dustin Byfuglien) against the best team in the conference makes for a very short series.

Good post from a guy on hfboards.. worth a read actually. 
 
Nevermind, found it. Here is the number I personally care about, given, like I said, the absolute tire fire this team was under Noel, and dating back to Atlanta.

Since Maurice began coaching this team, Pavelec has faced a grand total of 1939 shots, saving 1774 of them and accumulating a SV% of .915. 

That, for me, is a better indication of what Pavelec may be to this team under the most important circumstances. Not Atlanta days, not Noel days, not 3000 shots dating back to April of 2013 (two years ago), not 3000 shots dating back to November 2011, but what we have endured and experienced under Paul Maurice. To me, that is the most prevailing of facts here. Having a competent head coach, structure and team Pavelec has EVER played behind, and that goes for a lot of these players. And what are we seeing? we're seeing some success. So I do not give a rats behind essentially what Pavelec did in Atlanta, under Noel, etc. Put a player in an incompetent and inefficient situation and you just might get incompetent and inefficient results. Put a bunch of players in a competent and efficient situation, and you just might collectively get competent and efficient results. As a group and team, right from Maurice down to the players we are seeing a net positive.

In short, I do not believe Pavelec is a "new" goalie. I do not believe he has totally "reinvented" himself. I do believe he has perhaps worked and altered some techniques. I do believe playing within a structured team that Maurice has incorporated has a played a role. If each of these players buys in and brings some level of positive ingredient to the ice, and it works with this system and such, that is all I can ask and want and hope we endure success. So far, since the day Maurice was hired, we've seen that collectively from this team. 

Heck, all the majority wanted out of Pavelec was a .915 SV%. He is and has done that under Paul Maurice. Don't feed me old rubbish statistics that to me, are misleading because of the ineptitude that was displayed in Atlanta AND in Winnipeg prior to Paul becoming head coach and essentially saving this team from more losses, frustration, blowing things up, etc. It was a write off before and not a true telling tale, in my own opinion. There is a reason this team is where it is today. There is a reason under Paul Maurice this team has gone 115 GP: 60 - 38 - 17. There is a reason the underlying numbers of this team are good. And there is a reason prior to Paul Maurice all of these things were non-existent.