KptKrunch

Well, if MOS kept Kuale in the game after taking FOUR Unnecessary roughness penalties, I can't really see him canning any coaches unless a coach becomes available that he has a good professional relationship with. 
 
If anyone is going to leave, my bet is that man is MB gone, as MB was inherited by MOS, not necessarily 'hired' (probably kept him because no one MOS wanted was available). 
 
I'll argue a bit on the protection piece - Brohm and Marve did fine and weren't sacked any more often than any other CFL QB. Willy needs to learn to get rid of the ball faster. I'm sure he will be working on that in the off-season and will be much better next year. But after game 6, our offense clearly wasn't fooling anybody.

I like the middle finger logo suggestion for here. From mods on down that is how this place rolls. We're lectured to show respect then some of the people in charge don't. ROTFL. Don't ask the members here to behave if the mods or admin won't. Actually it's not funny upon thinking about it. It's hypocritical. If people are going to get constantly insulted, they will leave.
I've seen that very thing happen to some huge CFL  boards over the past 14 years because of bad mod behaviour & disrespect shown to members by others.  Total CFL, 13thman & CFL Zone are just 3 where disrespect, petty fighting, bad mod behaviour & favouritism brought all 3 sites down. 13thman had thousands of  members a decade ago. I remember when posting on a subject(s) there wasn't just posting a comment then & coming back later to see the response. It was instantaneous like our chats here during games. You could have a thread with a couple of hundred responses in an hour. Literally could be on there for hours & posting in real time on a thread carrying on conversations in the discussion threads. It was awesome talking with CFL fans all over the country. Well, 13thman is a ghost town now. No one would ever thought that the place would die off & fast... Like within 6 months. People said **** it & left when a few mods started bullying, insulting, perma banning & intimidating the people they didn't like. The mods thought they had all the power & acted like that but the members had the last say. That site is still around but hardly anyone goes there anymore. As far as the third site I mentioned, CFL Zone doesn't even have discussion anymore.
Take it for what it's worth & don't shoot the messenger but if people don't feel welcome here or there is bad mod behaviour & cliques develop this site then  will be deader than a doornail faster than you believe. I like this place that's why I come here & invest my time. I'd hate to see it go the way of the others.

I'm assuming this comment is directed at me...
 
I never said Willy sucks. I said he's been awful in the second half of the season, which is 100% true. Based on this downward spiral he's been in, I'm fairly confident that Marve gives us a better chance to win at this point.
 
Furthermore, my belief that Marve is a capable quarterback stems from more than just one quarter of football. He evidently has potential, as shown in mini-camp, in preseason, in practice, and again in limited regular season action. He could stand to gain some experience, and as such, I'm somewhat disconcerted in O'Shea's decision to start Willy this week.

No - with his ability to scramble and make plays out of nothing, like that 40 yard strike to Denmark while being chased down - in a snow storm with slick footing to boot. If it's 'so easy' why can't your boy Willy do that - what was 4 for 10 for 22 yards and ZERO points in a half - and he played in the 'good half' (snow was worse when Marve was in). Just saying - facts are facts too

You realize for the most part I agree with you right? I never said to 'hand the starting reigns over' to Marve. I have said, many times - that Willy is our future. All I said in my one thread that I started is enough of Grigsby this and oline that - Willy isn't exactly setting the house on fire. In fact - we could have won the Labour Day game, and the Banjo Bowl, if Willy was playing like he was in July. The REST of the team WAS good enough to win those games. 
 
Facts are Facts - and though last week is a 'who knows' I'm pretty sure if Marve goes in in the third quarter while we still have the lead we win that game. Edmonton kind of proved it as B.C. pretty much had a similar game here - only difference was Reilly (who was my first choice btw I settled for him signing here in Edmonton as they are my #2 team) showed a QB who's on his game can do. 
I have no doubt that Willy has injury problems, I have no doubt he's better than he showed the last two months and is still the incumbent #1 Qb. 
 
But, I have no doubt that a guy, with ZERO CFL experience, who spent the first part of 3 months, as I understand a third stringers role, - playing the role of the opposition QB and working with OUR D for the first 4 months of the year while Willy and Brohm took the lions share of snaps with the regular offense, has a future in this league the way he played. He made very tough throws, while being chased, on 'busted' plays, two weeks in a row (where he played). Albeit against the same team, and one in very poor conditions, but I liked what I saw.
Drew Willy is our #1 guy I have no argument there. But next year, if he's hurt, or if he's struggling, we better be putting in Marve to 'change the pace'. I could care less about 3700 yards btw - in an 18 game passing league, 3700 yards isn't impessive. Add 1000 yards and 15 TD's to that total, then you can color me impressed. Marve impressed me - Willy impressed me early - he didn't impress me at all since mid - August. 

Marve outplayed Willy in the game.  He moved the pocket.  He extended plays.  He threw accurately on the run.  He showed off a quick release to beat the blitz.  He ran the ball.  He threw a short ball for a TD instead of looking for the deep one in the back of the end zone.  All in all, the best we could have hoped for of a rookie QB in those conditions.  I think his play yesterday means we don't have to 'overpay' to re-sign Brohm, but it doesn't mean that Marve is fighting for the #1 spot next year.

Willy has had a bad throwing hand since game 4 against Edmonton (2nd helmet hit on hand) - before that he was arching long sideline and corner route passes perfectly - after that..... the "touch" on those seemed to completely disappear...... 
 
Combine that with him taking a few hundred hits, behind one of the worst pass blocking OL's  EVER, the anemic run game, and the lack of adjustments from Marcel.......while finishing his first year, riding the learning curve as a starter.....and you have a formula for some bigtime struggles, for sure. 
 
But this guy has guts, is smart, and coach able.   We will see a big uptick next year.   So some folks might want to restrain themselves, from tossing him into a can, or under the bus.....
 
btw..... none of this is a knock on Marve, who has demonstrated a good deal of potential as a change of pace guy, and a possible starting QB.  Just would like to see a bigger sample size than a Troy Copp,before anointing him.   This caution is simply based on the 100 or so QB's we have run in here....and out, shortly after...

Its important we sign Brohm .... and I would pay up for him ... can trade a QB later if necessary .... but more important than all that is firing Bellf

As I've said before, and it's not a difficult concept to understand - The message O'Shea presents to the media, and the internal (and true message by the way) message are two entirely different things. There's decisions/ideas that I'm sure he, and other staffers would like a do-over on, but saying that in the media serves no beneficial purpose whatsoever. If someone truly thinks O'Shea sees no problems, I frankly don't know what to say to you.
 
This team will get better, and it has the right head coach and management to do so.

There is still a large difference between what organizations do internally and say externally to the media.
 
Words are cheap, and in this day and age organizations keep things closer to their vest.
 
I'd be willing to bet that O'Shea, Walters, and Miller aren't at all happy with the way this season has turned out, and are already planning on how to start addressing these things going forward.
 
There are multiple reasons not to to divulge these things in the media, some of them including tipping your hate to the 8 other teams in the league as well as leaving your options open as your plan changes and evolves as you evaluate going forward.
 
Actions will always speak louder then words.  And we really won't know what the leaders of this organization think or where they see problems until training camp next year when we see who they kept, who they released, and where they brought in talent.
 
Whatever is said now is really just lip service, whatever is said.

I read that article earlier and I bristled at the heading myself. 
Wiecek has slanted what MOS had said (what else is new) and used provocative wording to garner attention.
But, as mentioned on here already…it's too early to be digging the knife in.
 
Don't know what's so hard to understand about what MOS said:
"That's what the off-season is for," said O'Shea. "We've got a couple days left here... We can talk afterward all you want about this kind of stuff."
 
But Wiecek has to write something right?
 
Let the post season discussion begin,,, in the post season.
 

People still don't get that O'Shea doesn't talk about this stuff in the media? You think he really doesn't know where mistakes were made? Is that more believable than he's just refusing to tell the media anything? Come on now, it's been his MO all season long. 

You should watch some early video of Anthony Cavillo - talk about bad decisions. But - he learned. I'm sure Willy will too given time, he does have the natural talent. Only point I've ever tried to make is Willy is just as responsible for losing these last 8 games as anyone else. He's not the 'sole' reason, but he's 'a' reason. He's learning and will hopefully rebound next year and be better for it. 

You should watch some early video of Anthony Cavillo - talk about bad decisions. But - he learned. I'm sure Willy will too given time, he does have the natural talent. Only point I've ever tried to make is Willy is just as responsible for losing these last 8 games as anyone else. He's not the 'sole' reason, but he's 'a' reason. He's learning and will hopefully rebound next year and be better for it. 

There is definitely truth to the fact Willy does not have near enough talent surrounding him. But as I said in the tough love thread I started, regardless of the reason why, his play has slipped big time since July. He is definitely not the same guy he was then. He couldn't make a decision to save his life on Saturday (well, to save a sack anyway) and should be sat for the remainder of the year because he is our future. Cavillo, in Vegas and later in Hamilton, was awful. He looked like Willy does now (not July, now). Maybe even worse. But once he 'got it' - well, the rest is history. I'm not saying Willy is going to be the next Cavillo, but he has potential to be like him. 
Willy needs to learn how to use the tools he has, personally and those around him. He needs to learn to get rid of the ball quickly if he's going to be a pocket passer. Cavillo, many times, only had 3 or 4 seconds to throw, but he did throw. Sometimes he was picked off, sometimes it was incomplete, but he got rid of the ball. Willy had that early, but lost it. 
 
I'm sure he'll start next game though, and Marve will most likely come in in the second half (regardless of how Willy plays). 
 
But MOS is very much to blame as Willy for this last game, Willy was frozen back there and should have been pulled. Big mistake by a rookie coach who I hope never does that again, unless he want's his star player maimed. 

That's the thing, it's a test for Mike O'Shea to show he can make an intelligent decision and if Willy needs to be replaced, JUST DO IT!!!

Fans like me? What the heck are you talking about? Why are you pissed at me? What did I do, other than point out the obvious? Now you're putting words in my mouth. First off, Zack Collaros (no one has said this yet either, really??) Did the same fricken thing earlier in the Toronto game (that's the guy I wanted) and I said (not here) that was a bonehead play.
 
He had 4 seconds ISO - watch the game again, He had enough time.
 
Are you mad because the bombers have lost EIGHT games in a row, and 9 of 10, and you think I have something to do with it. You also realize I'm not the only one who thinks like this.
 
You also realise it's a 'team' game right? You have any idea what a 'team' game is. Here let me explain - in a team game like football, for the offense to be succesful, you have to #1 - pass block. An offensive line, on average will give the QB about 4 to 5 seconds (sometimes less) to make his reads and throw the ball. During that time, the receivers have to run their routes. Also, during that time the QB has to make the right decision and throw the ball during that time frame. When one of those things fail, the QB gets sacked. 
 
Watch the game again iso when TSN repeats. Get a stop watch and time him. First sack, Willy had no chance. There were a couple of other sacks he did not get his 5 seconds. Now tell me, have you ever seen a game, where a QB throws the ball to a receiver, and he either A) has to fight through the defender to make the catch, or seen a receiver make a catch and then get hit almost immediately after? Or in your dream world, the receiver has to wide open - as in no defender in sight or 20 yards before you throw him the ball? 
 
Describe open. You know, I really really hope you are just trying to get under my skin. You are right? 
 
And read my posts from July - I was like you guys, I loved Willy. But week after week after week he was getting worse and worse and worse. This past game was beyond horrible and why he wasn't pulled is beyond me. He was like a goalie in Hockey who couldn't stop a floater - if a goalie was getting scored on left and right, from all angles, would you not pull him?
 
I tell ya - you really take the cake on this one. But yeah, blame 'fans like me' that's why we lost. Fans like me. 
 
edit; just to add on Marve - I have no idea if he would have 'completed' the pass, most likely not as they are such low percentage throws. But, I'd bet you 100 bucks he would have thrown the ball.. if he even would have needed to As I said in another thread - if Marve came in in the 3rd quarter - we probably win going away (as b.c. kept killing themselves with penalties) and he wouldn't have had been in a position to throw a hail mary to begin with. 

Yeah, is there such a thing as clown's soapbox?

One thing that really strikes me about Willy is how poor his throws are on the corner routes.  Has he completed one of those passes in the endzone in the second half of this season.  His long passes are generally quite inaccurate as well.  Glenn certainly throws a better long ball than Willy, that's for sure - 2 completions for ample yardage and another that would have been completed, but for pass interference.  I certainly won't say Willy is the best QB we have had since Khari..not yet anyway.  Glenn, as a Bomber, was a stepup.

Too bad Brohm got injured because I think Willy could learn a lot from watching him perform.  They're basically the same QB's with poor mobility but Brohm manages to make his reads that much quicker and gets rid of the ball even with the same weak O-line.  After watching him for a full season I suspect Willy, like many first year QB's does not see the field that well.

Classic Grigsby. Guess the Hamilton OL sucks too? 
 
Damned shame that it took so long for the Bombers to give up on an obviously not good enough running back. 

We only have one game left... I'd much rather see what Marve can do against Calgary than see Willy get killed in the backfield, in a meaningless game.

draft picks are crap shoots for sure, even in football where men (not boys like in the NHL) are drafted. Primarily, it is injury related. But C'mon, he passed on Nate Coohorn and drafted Jade Etienne (who chances are would have been there in the second round) and he drafted Pencer even though he already had a history of injuries. He also drafted Mulumba even though he had already committed to the Green Bay Packers. If history has proven anything, it's that guys like Mulumba are still available and picked in the 2nd/3rd round, especially if a team has multiple picks as they can afford to waste one on a hope and a prayer.
 
Mack could've done a lot better than what he did. Only saving grace (no thanks to Mack) is Etienne did bring us, eventually, Drew Willy. But he did not draft well, and I don't think he even fully understood the CFL draft. Walters does. 

draft picks are crap shoots for sure, even in football where men (not boys like in the NHL) are drafted. Primarily, it is injury related. But C'mon, he passed on Nate Coohorn and drafted Jade Etienne (who chances are would have been there in the second round) and he drafted Pencer even though he already had a history of injuries. He also drafted Mulumba even though he had already committed to the Green Bay Packers. If history has proven anything, it's that guys like Mulumba are still available and picked in the 2nd/3rd round, especially if a team has multiple picks as they can afford to waste one on a hope and a prayer.
 
Mack could've done a lot better than what he did. Only saving grace (no thanks to Mack) is Etienne did bring us, eventually, Drew Willy. But he did not draft well, and I don't think he even fully understood the CFL draft. Walters does. 

Any one who watched Grigsby play here knows that it doesn't matter one bit what he does in Hamilton. Guy was too soft and too much of a sissy as a running back to be effective in Winnipeg. It's an easy position to recruit for, why settle for someone who goes down on contact that easy and hesitates before hitting the line of scrimmage? Any scouting department worth it's salt should be able to find runningbacks who can do the job. The fact that Cotton when given the ball looks better should show that Grigsby ain't worth worrying about.