pigseye Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Coordinator contracts are not guaranteed so it doesn't matter how long the HC is around for, we fired 2 head coaches after extending them. I know what you're saying but the Bombers have proved to be anything but a traditional organization of late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Except of course for the fact that... the organization has changed quite a lot in the last couple years.. Miller,Walters... these guys weren't the guys who hired and fired 2 coaches after extending them. Eventually, you need to stop looking in to the past and start living in the now or looking to the future. What a different president and GM did 5 years ago, is not the same thing they would do now. Stability is important to this team and we haven't had that in forever. Extend Oshea and can MB and move on. blitzmore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBURGESS Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Extend O'Shea so he won't be a 'Lame Duck' HC? That kind of thinking got us an extra half year out of PLAP and we ended up paying him for 2 more years for doing nothing. Not extending O'Shea wouldn't hurt our OC search much if at all. An OC who wants to be a HC might even find it a bonus rather than a detriment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweep the leg Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Extend O'Shea so he won't be a 'Lame Duck' HC? That kind of thinking got us an extra half year out of PLAP and we ended up paying him for 2 more years for doing nothing. LaPolice was coming off a Grey Cup appearance when he signed his extension. The scenario's are pretty different. blitzmore and TrueBlue 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBBFanWest Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Extend O'Shea so he won't be a 'Lame Duck' HC? That kind of thinking got us an extra half year out of PLAP and we ended up paying him for 2 more years for doing nothing. Not extending O'Shea wouldn't hurt our OC search much if at all. An OC who wants to be a HC might even find it a bonus rather than a detriment. I'd rather have an OC come in because he wants the team to succeed, not because he wants the team to fail so they'll fire the HC and promote him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueandgold Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 We're talking about giving a guy with an 11-21 record an extension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbill2004 Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 We're talking about giving a guy with an 11-21 record an extension? I get what you're saying, but you need to look at the context. Was he given the necessary tools to succeed? Do we think he is a good HC, if given the right tools? The right tools meaning a good OC and a backup QB. I think this team is a backup QB, a good OC and a few players (kicker??) away from being a very good team. The D is near elite, the ST's have been great since Wild returned, the main issues are on offense, and some rookie coaching decisions that O'Shea will hopefully figure out with his experience. I'm on the fence with O'Shea but I'm leaning towards keeping him one more year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickem Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 We're talking about giving a guy with an 11-21 record an extension? ...Then we better get our heads read..I don't usually comment on 'fire him' threads because I believe a coach or player or gm/ceo deserves a proper shot at showing what they can do...Having said that you don't reward failure and expect to show progress..In fact you do the opposite...if you can't get the job done ...time to find someone who can...Maybe the time is not right for a change at the head coaching position, or anywhere else,and the end of the year seems most likely...Everyone will be reviewed ,and if it looks they are not getting the job done I'd be a tad worried, if the record we are sporting now stays the same.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 The optics of the situation do not allow for extending him, unless something really crazy happens the rest of the way here. Now, if he starts off fast next year, you extend him early...absolutely. JayBallz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacklewasher Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Offer O'Shea an extension conditional on 10 wins in 2016. Hit that number and he's automatically extended. Miss it and the dicsussion is re-opened at the end of 2016. Hell, make it conditional on getting into the playoffs. But don't give him an extension based on performance to date. JayBallz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Offer O'Shea an extension conditional on 10 wins in 2016. Hit that number and he's automatically extended. Miss it and the dicsussion is re-opened at the end of 2016. Hell, make it conditional on getting into the playoffs. But don't give him an extension based on performance to date. It worked for Ritchie, who had the same conditions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbill2004 Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Offer O'Shea an extension conditional on 10 wins in 2016. Hit that number and he's automatically extended. Miss it and the dicsussion is re-opened at the end of 2016. Hell, make it conditional on getting into the playoffs. But don't give him an extension based on performance to date. Interesting concept, if that's doable. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Coordinator contracts are not guaranteed so it doesn't matter how long the HC is around for, we fired 2 head coaches after extending them. I know what you're saying but the Bombers have proved to be anything but a traditional organization of late. Coaching contracts are guaranteed. If any coach signed a 2 year deal and was fired after then he gets paid for the second year. Mike Kelly signed a bunch of his staff to 2 year deals and we had to pay the ones who were fired for that second year. Only contracts that aren't guaranteed are the players. Thing is multi- year contracts for assistants aren't/weren't common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlue Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Should we changing this thread title to "Extend O'Shea"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBURGESS Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Those who like OShea are grasping for reasons to keep him and now to extend his contract? You have to ignore his record or give him points for 'Moral Victories' to even think of extending his contract. You have to ignore the fact that only 1 HC who didn't make the playoffs in their first 2 years didn't get fired since the turn of the century, probably longer. You have to ignore the fact that only 2 HC's coaches in the CFL have ever missed the playoffs in their first 2 years and went on to be a good HC and one of them waited a decade to get a second chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraser Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 didn't Benevides have a weird extentention that wasn't really an extension when he got canned? Obviously there is the flexibility to add conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCn20 Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Those who like OShea are grasping for reasons to keep him and now to extend his contract? You have to ignore his record or give him points for 'Moral Victories' to even think of extending his contract. You have to ignore the fact that only 1 HC who didn't make the playoffs in their first 2 years didn't get fired since the turn of the century, probably longer. You have to ignore the fact that only 2 HC's coaches in the CFL have ever missed the playoffs in their first 2 years and went on to be a good HC and one of them waited a decade to get a second chance. Yep some people are ignoring those things...probably because they have absolutely no bearing on this conversation. You can't apply generalities across the board as if they are absolutes. You judge MOS solely on his body of work, and with the facts you have, if you are the Bombers....certainly not on historical data. blitzmore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbill2004 Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 didn't Benevides have a weird extentention that wasn't really an extension when he got canned? Obviously there is the flexibility to add conditions.Yes I mentioned that a few posts earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westy Sucks Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 It would be very unwise/risky financially to extend Oshea. Especially since we haven't shown enough if any improvement over last season. Certainly not record wise obviously/ That would be repeating the mistakes of the past. If we extend Oshea, before our team shows "REAL" improvement. (IE: wins) then he hasn't earned an extension! At all! Bring him back next year but no extension for anything past 2016 until he proves his worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westy Sucks Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Except of course for the fact that... the organization has changed quite a lot in the last couple years.. Miller,Walters... these guys weren't the guys who hired and fired 2 coaches after extending them. Eventually, you need to stop looking in to the past and start living in the now or looking to the future. What a different president and GM did 5 years ago, is not the same thing they would do now. Stability is important to this team and we haven't had that in forever. Extend Oshea and can MB and move on. That's really a useless argument at this point because they haven't had the chance to yet! They've only hired 1 HC so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBURGESS Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Those who like OShea are grasping for reasons to keep him and now to extend his contract? You have to ignore his record or give him points for 'Moral Victories' to even think of extending his contract. You have to ignore the fact that only 1 HC who didn't make the playoffs in their first 2 years didn't get fired since the turn of the century, probably longer. You have to ignore the fact that only 2 HC's coaches in the CFL have ever missed the playoffs in their first 2 years and went on to be a good HC and one of them waited a decade to get a second chance. Yep some people are ignoring those things...probably because they have absolutely no bearing on this conversation. You can't apply generalities across the board as if they are absolutes. You judge MOS solely on his body of work, and with the facts you have, if you are the Bombers....certainly not on historical data. If we ignore history, we're doomed to repeat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweep the leg Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Those who like OShea are grasping for reasons to keep him and now to extend his contract? You have to ignore his record or give him points for 'Moral Victories' to even think of extending his contract. You have to ignore the fact that only 1 HC who didn't make the playoffs in their first 2 years didn't get fired since the turn of the century, probably longer. You have to ignore the fact that only 2 HC's coaches in the CFL have ever missed the playoffs in their first 2 years and went on to be a good HC and one of them waited a decade to get a second chance. Yep some people are ignoring those things...probably because they have absolutely no bearing on this conversation. You can't apply generalities across the board as if they are absolutes. You judge MOS solely on his body of work, and with the facts you have, if you are the Bombers....certainly not on historical data. If we ignore history, we're doomed to repeat it. That's really deep. bearpants 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR. CFL Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Then you will like the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Those who like OShea are grasping for reasons to keep him and now to extend his contract? You have to ignore his record or give him points for 'Moral Victories' to even think of extending his contract. You have to ignore the fact that only 1 HC who didn't make the playoffs in their first 2 years didn't get fired since the turn of the century, probably longer. You have to ignore the fact that only 2 HC's coaches in the CFL have ever missed the playoffs in their first 2 years and went on to be a good HC and one of them waited a decade to get a second chance. Yep some people are ignoring those things...probably because they have absolutely no bearing on this conversation. You can't apply generalities across the board as if they are absolutes. You judge MOS solely on his body of work, and with the facts you have, if you are the Bombers....certainly not on historical data. If we ignore History, we're doomed to repeat it. That's what my high school teacher told me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J5V Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Repeated failure, and this team is going on 25 years without a championship, is bad business. It creates loss of corporate and fan interest. If this team stumbles along like it has under O'Shea's watch and O'Shea is still here next season you just watch the empty seats spring up. Hosting the Grey Cup this year will buy time but as Braley has found out, once that money is gone, and the seats remain empty, it means big trouble. I can see the league stepping in at that point and demanding to see the books and questioning the BOD on whether a professional football team can be supported here at IGF. Don't think it can happen? Ottawa has lost their team several times, the latest being the Ottawa Renegades. I know they're back now as the Redblacks but that franchise was suspended indefinitely by the league due to financial instability, and its players were absorbed by the other teams in a dispersal draft. Unless this team has a dramatic turnaround that generates some real interest next year, keeping O'Shea won't be possible strictly from a business perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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