Mike Posted August 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 It really is just logic. I'm not grabbing facts to fit into what I think happened, I'm letting the facts write the story for me and it's the only logical conclusion worth coming to when you stack ALL the information up. FACT - A bidding war for Reilly = more money for Reilly FACT - Reilly opted to not wait for a bidding war WHY? He wanted to go to Edmonton FACT - Buono let Edmonton talk to Reilly WHY? He knew if they reached a deal with him, the return on his side would be greater FACT - Buono negotiated with Winnipeg FACT - Buono did not let Winnipeg talk to Reilly WHY? He knew negotiating with more than one team would increase his return. He also knew if Winnipeg spoke to Reilly, they would no longer be interested in negotiating because Reilly appeared to have no interest in coming here. It's not difficult to see that this was just a brilliant move by Buono, awful move by Hervey and an intelligent, yet unfortunate move by Mack. rebusrankin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigseye Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 You still have to acknowledge that: and he felt that simply wasn’t a deal he could do. Why? At the time, he didn't know this, Mack repeated that he feels the fact Reilly signed with Edmonton today rather than going to free agency and potentially becoming the subject of a bidding war between the Eskimos and Bombers suggests Reilly never really did seriously consider Winnipeg. At the time, he didn't know what Reilly's intentions actually were, he came the conclusion after. So maybe he made the right move by telling Wally to stuff it. All I'm saying is that he didn't try very hard when he heard Wally's terms, he walked away in fact. And you wouldn't walk away from those terms? No, I wouldn't and I wouldn't have walked away from the Glenn deal either. The Bombers would be a better team today, with Reilly or Glenn at QB and that's really all you ask of your GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 If you actually believe we had NO SHOT at Reilly, you're just being naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dee Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 No, I wouldn't and I wouldn't have walked away from the Glenn deal either. The Bombers would be a better team today, with Reilly or Glenn at QB and that's really all you ask of your GM. If you actually believe we had NO SHOT at Reilly, you're just being naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskbluefan Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 It really is just logic. I'm not grabbing facts to fit into what I think happened, I'm letting the facts write the story for me and it's the only logical conclusion worth coming to when you stack ALL the information up. FACT - A bidding war for Reilly = more money for Reilly FACT - Reilly opted to not wait for a bidding war WHY? He wanted to go to Edmonton FACT - Buono let Edmonton talk to Reilly WHY? He knew if they reached a deal with him, the return on his side would be greater FACT - Buono negotiated with Winnipeg FACT - Buono did not let Winnipeg talk to Reilly WHY? He knew negotiating with more than one team would increase his return. He also knew if Winnipeg spoke to Reilly, they would no longer be interested in negotiating because Reilly appeared to have no interest in coming here. It's not difficult to see that this was just a brilliant move by Buono, awful move by Hervey and an intelligent, yet unfortunate move by Mack. I think all of this starts with the presumption Reilly wanted to only go to Edmonton and works backwards from there. I think the facts are a bunch of stuff happened that you and I don't know about and Reilly ended up on the Eskimos. The team that wanted him more got him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dee Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Fact .Fact ..Fact ...Fact The facts aren't really off...it's just the way you're looking at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Fact .Fact ..Fact ...Fact The facts aren't really off...it's just the way you're looking at them. The only fact is that Edmonton traded for Reilly's rights and Winnipeg didn't. The rest is speculation and hearsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskbluefan Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Fact .Fact ..Fact ...Fact The facts aren't really off...it's just the way you're looking at them. The only fact is that Edmonton traded for Reilly's rights and Winnipeg didn't. The rest is speculation and hearsay. I would agree with this but I don't think anybody else would. It's hard to argue Reilly didn't always want to go to Edmonton when he ended up going to Edmonton. I just think we don't know that. Even if he did favor Edmonton an exclusive negotiating window and enough Sir Robert Bordens might have changed the outcome. As those kind ofthings do in a lot of other free agent cases. There are some people who believe there is absolutely nothing Joe Mack could have done to keep LaBatte either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robynjt Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Fact .Fact ..Fact ...Fact The facts aren't really off...it's just the way you're looking at them. The only fact is that Edmonton traded for Reilly's rights and Winnipeg didn't. The rest is speculation and hearsay. Since when has that stopped ANYONE here from quoting it as truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comedygeek Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Who cares about all this, anyway? Honestly, can anyone know that Goltz or Hall can't put up Reilly-like numbers in their 9th CFL start? Maybe if Hall plays the rest of the year and is still putting up 200-yard games, we should return to this argument. But we're still not talking about a Ricky Ray or Henry Burris. We're talking about MIKE FRICKIN' REILLY -- a QB who is just now starting to find his groove as a CFL QB.(And in this city, especially with the coaching we have -- which we would've had if Mack had somehow, miraculously brought Reilly to Winnipeg -- Reilly would've probably been replaced at starting QB putting up the numbers he did in his first 5 games in Edmonton. Because we don't give our QBs time to grow anymore. We release them or swap them out after a few mediocre games.) Logan007 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan007 Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Who cares about all this, anyway? Honestly, can anyone know that Goltz or Hall can't put up Reilly-like numbers in their 9th CFL start? Maybe if Hall plays the rest of the year and is still putting up 200-yard games, we should return to this argument. But we're still not talking about a Ricky Ray or Henry Burris. We're talking about MIKE FRICKIN' REILLY -- a QB who is just now starting to find his groove as a CFL QB. (And in this city, especially with the coaching we have -- which we would've had if Mack had somehow, miraculously brought Reilly to Winnipeg -- Reilly would've probably been replaced at starting QB putting up the numbers he did in his first 5 games in Edmonton. Because we don't give our QBs time to grow anymore. We release them or swap them out after a few mediocre games.) ^ This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyenegecha Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 It really is just logic. I'm not grabbing facts to fit into what I think happened, I'm letting the facts write the story for me and it's the only logical conclusion worth coming to when you stack ALL the information up. FACT - A bidding war for Reilly = more money for Reilly FACT - Reilly opted to not wait for a bidding war WHY? He wanted to go to Edmonton Just to play Devil's Advocate, a bidding war requires two teams who want your services.If I'm Ed Hervey, and we acquire Reilly, the first thing I relay to his team is their offer, while letting him know that if he goes to free agency and Winnipeg doesn't beat this price, this contract offer is no longer on the table, while also simultaneously bringing up the fact that Winnipeg has three quarterbacks on their roster with more experience than him and who all make near six-figures. This has been rumored to have been done to us before (Carr), and we have set a precedent of walking away from bidding wars. Poof, there goes Reilly's leverage. I'm not saying this happened, all I'm saying is that if I'm Edmonton I would look strongly at this option, and if I were Reilly's management team I'd be very worried about pinning our hopes of a bidding war on a franchise that has a proven recent track record of avoiding any and all bidding wars. As someone said earlier, a bird in hand. This situation would be a theoretical that would explain why Reilly signed in Edmonton prior to free agency while also being a situation where Edmonton wasn't his predetermined first and only choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Just to play Devil's Advocate, a bidding war requires two teams who want your services. According to credible guys like Dave Naylor there were more than 2 teams interested in Reilly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 I don't know why we're so focussed on Reilly anyway, Elliott and Brink were more questionable moves in my mind. Two guys that the team had invested a lot of time in who had shown varying degrees of progress.... wasted 3 years with that move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyenegecha Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Just to play Devil's Advocate, a bidding war requires two teams who want your services. According to credible guys like Dave Naylor there were more than 2 teams interested in Reilly. I wasn't aware of that, and that certainly changes the dynamic. Having said that, which other team would pay Reilly starters money? Definitely not Toronto, Calgary, or Saskatchewan. This leaves Montreal and Hamilton, and the more I think about it, the more I can be talked into either team dropping that kind of coin. Especially Hamilton. They love winning the Grey Cup in February. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyenegecha Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 I don't know why we're so focussed on Reilly anyway, Elliott and Brink were more questionable moves in my mind. Two guys that the team had invested a lot of time in who had shown varying degrees of progress.... wasted 3 years with that move. Or, looking at it the other way, saving two years (2013 and 2014) waiting for development that wasn't going to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 I don't know why we're so focussed on Reilly anyway, Elliott and Brink were more questionable moves in my mind. Two guys that the team had invested a lot of time in who had shown varying degrees of progress.... wasted 3 years with that move. Elliott yes since he showed something... Brink was not a questionable move... the guy showed no progress at all in his time with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 I don't know why we're so focussed on Reilly anyway, Elliott and Brink were more questionable moves in my mind. Two guys that the team had invested a lot of time in who had shown varying degrees of progress.... wasted 3 years with that move. Elliott yes since he showed something... Brink was not a questionable move... the guy showed no progress at all in his time with us. I agree with that, but still he had shown some ability at least. Some more protection he might have been servicable. CodyT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
do or die Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 No, no.... it was just better to ride the rickety BuckWagon, one more time.......with the 2 QB's behind him, boasting a total of 0 CFL starts..... Mack deserved to be fired for that particular setup, alone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Well, just get the job done. Lots of pressure to do so... but get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair GM Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 See I don't see it quite that way. I think Edmonton said we want to trade for Reily and Wally said "ok but you can't talk to him" and Edmonton said, "Well then get stuffed" and then they negotiated and something got worked out. I think Winnipeg said we want to trade for Reily and Wally said ok but you can't talk to him and Winnipeg said "We can't get Reilly which is ok because we can find someone better ourselves anyway." It never made sense to me that Wally said Edmonton can talk to him and Winnipeg can't. And that Edmonton has to give us a 2nd and 3rd and Winnipeg has to give us a 1st and 3rd. I believe Wally opened negotiations with both teams at the same place and Winnipeg walked away and told everyone they couldn't get him and Edmonton kept at it and got him. For better or worse. Okay. Please explain why Wally would not let ANYBODY talk to him. All it could do is increase the return he could get in a trade. I just don't see how it's remotely plausible that Buono would favor Edmonton over Winnipeg. We're talking about an all-time great GM, favoring trading a surplus player of his (that he would lose in FA in a week's time) to a division rival; rather than either trading him outside the division (to Winnipeg) or letting him go to FA and presumably eat up more of one of our cap's. It just makes no sense that Wally would do that. Wally was trying to create value in a trade, he had to realize that there were only 2 teams with needs for Reilly. So why not wait til as long as possible, and offer them the right to talk to him first, so they can negotiate deal. Clearly, BC's going to get more value when the other side is guaranteed that Reilly will sign. EDM agreed to it, Mack didn't. Regardless of whether EDM was Reilly's preferred destination, I doubt it had anything to do with Buono trading him there. Wouldn't Buono prefer to trade him out of the division? Wouldn't Reilly jump at a chance for his first professional starting gig, no matter where it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 I just don't see how it's remotely plausible that Buono would favor Edmonton over Winnipeg. We're talking about an all-time great GM, favoring trading a surplus player of his (that he would lose in FA in a week's time) to a division rival; rather than either trading him outside the division (to Winnipeg) or letting him go to FA and presumably eat up more of one of our cap's. It just makes no sense that Wally would do that. Wally was trying to create value in a trade, he had to realize that there were only 2 teams with needs for Reilly. So why not wait til as long as possible, and offer them the right to talk to him first, so they can negotiate deal. Clearly, BC's going to get more value when the other side is guaranteed that Reilly will sign. EDM agreed to it, Mack didn't. Regardless of whether EDM was Reilly's preferred destination, I doubt it had anything to do with Buono trading him there. Wouldn't Buono prefer to trade him out of the division? Wouldn't Reilly jump at a chance for his first professional starting gig, no matter where it is? Reilly to Edmonton was decided before BC traded him! That's the whole point here. Wally being the all-time great GM was trying to either con more from Winnipeg or use the possibility of WInnipeg being interested to get more out of Edmonton. Reilly was going to Edmonton, Buono just tried to get more than he did already by including Winnipeg. Mack knew what was happening and didn't make a trade where he couldn't talk to the player before it was completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconNBigBlue Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 With our porous Oline, what QB with any promise would flourish? When you're running for your life, you don't have time to develop any skills other than self preservation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpan85 Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 I think the O-line will start looking a lot better. The way QB were describing it they had way too many reads to make. MB simplified the reads as to allow for quicker decisions. Rolling and moving the pocket should help to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 I just don't see how it's remotely plausible that Buono would favor Edmonton over Winnipeg. We're talking about an all-time great GM, favoring trading a surplus player of his (that he would lose in FA in a week's time) to a division rival; rather than either trading him outside the division (to Winnipeg) or letting him go to FA and presumably eat up more of one of our cap's. It just makes no sense that Wally would do that. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. He got to swap 2nd round picks this year and gets a 2nd round pick next year for a player that he would have gotten nothing for in a couple of weeks. Buono has made trades before within the division and he's likely to do it again. Simon traded to Saskatchewan, Messam traded to Edmonton. He traded a couple of draft picks to the Stamps for Jesse Newman. If you look at trades that have been made in the league over the past few years and there are quite a few involving teams trading within their division. As for the cap, I think he was likely more concerned about his own cap situation than how much of a cap hit Reilly would be for another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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