JCon Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 3 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said: I think if you re-read what he posted you'll see that it does make sense. The cap helps, but it does nothing for sudden stops/impacts which make the head (and therefore brain) whip back and forth. No, that's exactly what it addresses. When that sudden impact happens, the guardian cap absorbs the impact and slows the impact down. I was briefed on this with the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage. I sat there while experts in the field explained all these mitigating factors. I'm not arguing with someone who's worried about how it "looks". Jesse, Noeller, Wanna-B-Fanboy and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigg jay Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 2 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said: I think if you re-read what he posted you'll see that it does make sense. The cap helps, but it does nothing for sudden stops/impacts which make the head (and therefore brain) whip back and forth. It makes sense but the same argument can be made for helmets but those are required. We know nothing will 100% eliminate concussions but if there's something that can help increase safety (without affecting gameplay) why wouldn't they try it? It looks goofy as hell but it's not my brain being knocked around so if a player wants to wear one, I'm not going to criticize their choice. Tracker and Bigblue204 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBBFanWest Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 2 hours ago, JCon said: That's exactly what the guardian helmet does. Literally what it is designed for. A better analogy would be if they put the airbags on the outside of the car. Sure, it would lessen the impact forces inside the vehicle a bit, but that body slamming into the steering wheel won't notice. That extra padding on the outside of the helmet likely does help a bit, but the point is the brain bashing into the skull, repeatedly. Fatty Liver and Bigblue204 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCn20 Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 1 hour ago, JCon said: Saying the guardian cap does nothing is not a fact. That's an opinion not based in fact. I get that people don't like the looks of it, but that's a pretty immature reason not use it. It is immature. Good thing no one was remotely suggesting that they not use them because they are butt ugly. A person can say they are butt ugly and not be implying players not use them on that basis. Bigblue204 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booch Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 Just now, JCon said: No, that's exactly what it addresses. When that sudden impact happens, the guardian cap absorbs the impact and slows the impact down. I was briefed on this with the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage. I sat there while experts in the field explained all these mitigating factors. I'm not arguing with someone who's worried about how it "looks". does nothing for a instance where a guy gets drilled in the chest and stops dead in his tracks....with no head contact...how does a helmet wrap desingned to take impact and dissapate it over a large area do anything to help the brain not continue with inertia...which it will and slam into the skull?...Its literally impossible....and the bruising and lesions to the brain from impact on the skull is what causes serios damage////but whatever....u can think u are right Just now, WBBFanWest said: A better analogy would be if they put the airbags on the outside of the car. Sure, it would lessen the impact forces inside the vehicle a bit, but that body slamming into the steering wheel won't notice. That extra padding on the outside of the helmet likely does help a bit, but the point is the brain bashing into the skull, repeatedly. you get it...obviously Professor Jcon doesnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCon Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 6 minutes ago, Booch said: does nothing for a instance where a guy gets drilled in the chest and stops dead in his tracks....with no head contact...how does a helmet wrap desingned to take impact and dissapate it over a large area do anything to help the brain not continue with inertia...which it will and slam into the skull?...Its literally impossible....and the bruising and lesions to the brain from impact on the skull is what causes serios damage////but whatever....u can think u are right you get it...obviously Professor Jcon doesnt So, you can't put on the guardian helmet because not all hits are to the head? Top level, Dr Booch. Pepper_Brooks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booch Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 Just now, JCon said: So, you can't put on the guardian helmet because not all hits are to the head? Top level, Dr Booch. Hits to the head are not the sole reason a concussion occurs....Put it on to possible prevent that if you choose...maybe some will but it won't end them...You claimed that they are designed to stop the brain from hitting the inside of the skull...from a non head shot...go read your post...as that is 100 percent incorrect.....Answer me this if you believe it does....if a guy gets drilled in the lower back...like we seen hundreds of times and his head snaps back and forth in a whiplash fasion...like a car accident...how is the Guardian wrapped around his head...outside his helmet prevent the brain from slamming into the skull? Same with a guy drilled shoulder to chest...shoulder to shoulder and stopped in his tracks....how is the "brain" protected there with a wrap outside the skull....with no impact wjatsoever to the head?....have at er and fact of the matter head shots are now illigal and not accepted like before....so yes we still get them...but they are a fraction of what they used to be.....and I'm not worried how it looks....sure I as well as others said they look really goofy....so what...noone said they serve no purpose...just not the purpose you are touting...but I sure you will argue and dispute..cherry pick....and all the other narrartives you do in regards to anything I say..I expect it and and expect nothihg less to be honest and it's humours me beyond belief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Liver Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 10 minutes ago, JCon said: So, you can't put on the guardian helmet because not all hits are to the head? Top level, Dr Booch. It's simply physics, even when the impact is to the head the brain collides with the impacted side of the skull due to the sudden loss of momentum, bounces off then slams into the otherside of the skull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booch Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 Derived from the Latin word concusses, concussion means to shake violently. A concussion happens when a force causes the brain to rapidly move back and forth inside the skull. This may be caused by either a direct blow or by a blow to the body that forces the head to quickly rotate. Although some sports have higher instances of concussion — such as football, ice hockey, and soccer — concussions can happen in any sport or recreational activity. Other than a direct shot to the head....where the brain will still do what is described above....the Guardian won't prevent anything from the shoulders down, and even a violent shot to the head with one on...will still cause the brain to move BTW....Thats from the American Academy of Orthapedic Surgeons which is included in the health and safety documents we get while running training and combie prep camps....I will go with what they said before the Minister of Sport up in Winnipeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOBomberFan Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 If It's not hurting, and even remotely helping... then... what's the concern? Rod Black, Pepper_Brooks, Brandon and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Black Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 (edited) The guardian design will be replaced. Something more aerodynamic to allow for quicker acceleration, sensor rings to collapse during contact, and advantage to defenders during a field goal and punts. This French prototype could be popular. Edited May 16 by Rod Black MOBomberFan, kelownabomberfan, JohnnyAbonny and 4 others 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCon Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 Don't wear a helmet because it won't protect you from hits below the shoulders. Don't wear shoulder pads because it won't protect your knees. Tracker, Pepper_Brooks and Jesse 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Negatron Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 2 minutes ago, Rod Black said: The guardian design will be replaced. Something more aerodynamic to allow for quicker acceleration, sensor rings to collapse during contact, and advantage to defenders during a field goal and punts. This French prototype could be popular. Imagine the spearing penalties! 15 minutes ago, Booch said: Derived from the Latin word concusses, concussion means to shake violently. A concussion happens when a force causes the brain to rapidly move back and forth inside the skull. This may be caused by either a direct blow or by a blow to the body that forces the head to quickly rotate. Although some sports have higher instances of concussion — such as football, ice hockey, and soccer — concussions can happen in any sport or recreational activity. Other than a direct shot to the head....where the brain will still do what is described above....the Guardian won't prevent anything from the shoulders down, and even a violent shot to the head with one on...will still cause the brain to move BTW....Thats from the American Academy of Orthapedic Surgeons which is included in the health and safety documents we get while running training and combie prep camps....I will go with what they said before the Minister of Sport up in Winnipeg Jokes on you Booch, with the size of the Guardian every hit is now automatically a headshot! Booch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Liver Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 6 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said: Imagine the spearing penalties! Jokes on you Booch, with the size of the Guardian every hit is now automatically a headshot! I want to see Collaros out there wearing a super-sized Guardian! Super Duper Negatron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booch Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 2 hours ago, JCon said: Don't wear a helmet because it won't protect you from hits below the shoulders. Don't wear shoulder pads because it won't protect your knees. Now your just being a fool...bordering on a jackass....like really? Piggy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue204 Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 3 hours ago, JCon said: So, you can't put on the guardian helmet because not all hits are to the head? Top level, Dr Booch. Not to speak for him...but I haven't seen him say they shouldn't wear them. Just that they don't stop a huge aspect of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booch Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 Just now, Bigblue204 said: Not to speak for him...but I haven't seen him say they shouldn't wear them. Just that they don't stop a huge aspect of the problem. Yeah...but some people around here like to spin things to fit their sad narrative and uninformed view....it's expected Piggy 1 and TBURGESS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelownabomberfan Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 2 hours ago, Fatty Liver said: I want to see Collaros out there wearing a super-sized Guardian! wrapped in 10 pounds of bubble wrap.... Fatty Liver 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbbfan Posted May 16 Report Share Posted May 16 It feels like football at large is throwing random crap at the wall to deal with concussion issues. Rather than having a well thought out multi pronged approach with defined success criteria. If it was a revenue concern you know they would have a much better plan and process implemented. Direct impacts cause concussions for sure. But, change of direction hits and whip effects cause a lot too. Guardian helmets, the new gen helmets, next gen and beyond next gen helmets are all mitigation on a fraction of the causes. Not prevention. It doesn’t matter if you have the 1 piece shoulder pads and helmet or a perfect absorbing piece of future gear. Moving at high speed then being forcefully stopped quickly is terrible on the brain and body. No piece of gear is going to stop your brain sloshing in your skull. What is needed, to start, is a change to the culture of bringing guys down. Technique changes reinforced by rule changes from the grass level on up. Better gear is always good to have, better self protection when it comes to absorbing hits and going to the ground is as big. JohnnyAbonny and Pepper_Brooks 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper_Brooks Posted May 17 Report Share Posted May 17 28 minutes ago, wbbfan said: It feels like football at large is throwing random crap at the wall to deal with concussion issues. Rather than having a well thought out multi pronged approach with defined success criteria. If it was a revenue concern you know they would have a much better plan and process implemented. Direct impacts cause concussions for sure. But, change of direction hits and whip effects cause a lot too. Guardian helmets, the new gen helmets, next gen and beyond next gen helmets are all mitigation on a fraction of the causes. Not prevention. It doesn’t matter if you have the 1 piece shoulder pads and helmet or a perfect absorbing piece of future gear. Moving at high speed then being forcefully stopped quickly is terrible on the brain and body. No piece of gear is going to stop your brain sloshing in your skull. What is needed, to start, is a change to the culture of bringing guys down. Technique changes reinforced by rule changes from the grass level on up. Better gear is always good to have, better self protection when it comes to absorbing hits and going to the ground is as big. This is basically paraphrasing what I said a page ago, which you then tried to use against me in the training camp thread. To quote you, when I made this exact point I was "dictating that the league and teams dont know how to coach tackling or prevent concussions as well as you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuranBoldenRules Posted May 17 Report Share Posted May 17 Sorry but if you think nothing has changed in terms of preventing head injuries in contact sports you must have been in a coma for the past 30 years. Pepper_Brooks, Noeller and Piggy 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbbfan Posted May 17 Report Share Posted May 17 37 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said: Sorry but if you think nothing has changed in terms of preventing head injuries in contact sports you must have been in a coma for the past 30 years. Sure a good bit has changed, maybe half as much as the changes we’ve seen to protect the qbs though. If that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Liver Posted May 17 Report Share Posted May 17 (edited) 7 hours ago, wbbfan said: It feels like football at large is throwing random crap at the wall to deal with concussion issues. Rather than having a well thought out multi pronged approach with defined success criteria. If it was a revenue concern you know they would have a much better plan and process implemented. Direct impacts cause concussions for sure. But, change of direction hits and whip effects cause a lot too. Guardian helmets, the new gen helmets, next gen and beyond next gen helmets are all mitigation on a fraction of the causes. Not prevention. It doesn’t matter if you have the 1 piece shoulder pads and helmet or a perfect absorbing piece of future gear. Moving at high speed then being forcefully stopped quickly is terrible on the brain and body. No piece of gear is going to stop your brain sloshing in your skull. What is needed, to start, is a change to the culture of bringing guys down. Technique changes reinforced by rule changes from the grass level on up. Better gear is always good to have, better self protection when it comes to absorbing hits and going to the ground is as big. Pro sports is fully invested in denying the science of brain injuries, wouldn't want the gravy train to fly off the track. There really is no solution to preventing concussions without drastically altering the physical nature of the game. Lawyers are kept busy amping up the protection of the wealthy owners, they need to make sure players sign a detailed waiver before they take the field to keep the cash flowing. Edited May 17 by Fatty Liver wbbfan and Pepper_Brooks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue Posted May 17 Report Share Posted May 17 3 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said: Pro sports is fully invested in denying the science of brain injuries, wouldn't want the gravy train to fly off the track. There really is no solution to preventing concussions without drastically altering the physical nature of the game. Lawyers are kept busy amping up the protection of the wealthy owners, they need to make sure players sign a detailed waiver before they take the field to keep the gold flowing. Rule changes are evolving in fits and leaps ... nuancing such is for discussion boards What matters is concussion insurance claims ... they will be an item at the next player association negotiations Bigblue204 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigg jay Posted May 17 Report Share Posted May 17 Looks like Ottawa has picked up Ronnie Brown. Now he can go angry tweet to their media guys. 😂 wbbfan and Noeller 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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