I've come across some debates on facebook,  read some opinions on fan and CFL blogs.. curious what we think here..

20 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Play off games.

he went 26/40 for 390 yards, 2 tds 0 ints in the WSF last year. He was not the reason we lost by 1 point. 

1 minute ago, Ripper said:

They are missing Walker this year. Bowman out is a huge blow. Oline has been shaky so far. Reilly is running for his life and taking hits. He is still making plays and winning. Injuries to rb's has them not running the ball as well. Lots of holes on a undefeated team, which is a odd thing to say.  I think Reilly is just keeping it together.

Zylstra is a pretty big loss too,  but they seemed to have found another gem in Bryant Mitchell.  

1 minute ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

Zylstra is a pretty big loss too,  but they seemed to have found another gem in Bryant Mitchell.  

Yes but every time  new a new guy comes in, it takes time to gel. Reilly is plugging along like nothing has happened.  On a side note, I hope the nice things I'm saying about him cause them to crash and burn in the near future

Just now, Ripper said:

Yes but every time  new a new guy comes in, it takes time to gel. Reilly is plugging along like nothing has happened.  On a side note, I hope the nice things I'm saying about him cause them to crash and burn in the near future

I for sure think the wheels are coming off on thursday. The bombers starting the 50/50 off at 100K should ensure a sell out, edmonton on 2nd straight road game,  short week for both teams,  but biggest change this week is likely no Howard or Sewell on Edmonton's DL and quite frankly I'm tired of watching summersaults lol

4 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

he went 26/40 for 390 yards, 2 tds 0 ints in the WSF last year. He was not the reason we lost by 1 point. 

That's one game.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Nichols supporter. And I have full faith in him to be successful in the play offs again, but given the qualifying question of, "Is Matt Nichols elite?" We need to see  him do it multiple times in the play offs to say yes. Matt can do all he wants during the season, but as we saw with Calgary last year, it means nothing until you can bring home a championship.

I believe Matt can do it. But it's not a question he can fully answer right now. It will take a few seasons of consistency. 

Reilly and Mitchell are head and shoulders the #1 and #2 QBs in the CFL, in that order.

However as a big not-Nichols guy, I don't see how anyone can say he's not number 3.

Every guy on this list loses. Every guy has good games, bad games, losses in games they should've won and wins in games they should've lost.

I truly think the reason that Nichols doesn't get as much love is because he never puts together a game where the Bombers go out and kill a team. They don't 60-1 anybody. But they win. And he's a big part of it. Nichols is very quickly turning me into a believer, which is crazy because when he took over from Willy, I was beyond convinced it was temporary and he'd never amount to anything.

I'd be curious to see the numbers of each of those three guys since Nichols became a starter. Just to measure it. I know Nichols has a better winning % than Reilly and a worse one than Mitchell. But what are the QB stats. Would be interesting.

And re: Thursday, I don't think I've ever been more convinced of a win against an undefeated team. I was less confident we were going to beat Hamilton. I think we stomp Edmonton.

Reilly struggles with our defence for some reason. Their OL is beat up. Their DL is beat up. We're going to put the boots to them. Bombers by two possessions. 

11 minutes ago, Ripper said:

They are missing Walker this year. Bowman out is a huge blow. Oline has been shaky so far. Reilly is running for his life and taking hits. He is still making plays and winning. Injuries to rb's has them not running the ball as well. Lots of holes on a undefeated team, which is a odd thing to say.  I think Reilly is just keeping it together.

There running back has 225 rushing receiving the last two games. Had a 100 yard game two weeks ago. They have become better with Perkins in the line up.

Just now, Mike said:

Reilly and Mitchell are head and shoulders the #1 and #2 QBs in the CFL, in that order.

However as a big not-Nichols guy, I don't see how anyone can say he's not number 3.

Every guy on this list loses. Every guy has good games, bad games, losses in games they should've won and wins in games they should've lost.

I truly think the reason that Nichols doesn't get as much love is because he never puts together a game where the Bombers go out and kill a team. They don't 60-1 anybody. But they win. And he's a big part of it. Nichols is very quickly turning me into a believer, which is crazy because when he took over from Willy, I was beyond convinced it was temporary and he'd never amount to anything.

I'd be curious to see the numbers of each of those three guys since Nichols became a starter. Just to measure it. I know Nichols has a better winning % than Reilly and a worse one than Mitchell. But what are the QB stats. Would be interesting.

I was or am still in the same boat.  I saw Nichols as a stop-gap, a gate keeper until we found the next gem (lord knows weve been looking forever) but not someone who would be here beyond 2017-2018, at least as a starter.. Now, I'm hard pressed to find reasons not to want him to be our starting QB.. hes got that moxy, that drive and determination.. and while his physical attributes are not off the charts, he can get the yards with his legs, he can hit the deep ball and the middle passes and he can even get the ball to the wide side with some zip..  his smarts tho, those are his biggest asset.  people keep telling me hes too slow on his reads or he cant read a defense but I have a hard time agreeing with those people when hes making them pay on a regular basis for trying to blitz or confuse him with coverages.. hes far from perfect but he is also far from a scrub or career backup.

11 minutes ago, Jesse said:

, but given the qualifying question of, "Is Matt Nichols elite?" We need to see  him do it multiple times in the play offs to say yes. Matt can do all he wants during the season, but as we saw with Calgary last year, it means nothing until you can bring home a championship.

Based on this criteria, was Stegall an elite receiver? Or did his career mean nothing?

Edited August 14, 20178 yr by brett_c_b

Just now, brett_c_b said:

Based on this criteria, was Stegall an elite receiver? Or did his career mean nothing?

CFL has no way for me to look at play off stats,  but I'm sure Stegall performed plenty well in  the play offs over the years.

And again, he performed consistently over a long career. Matt is in his first year as a starter. 

it's the last piece i was mainly referring to, that it means nothing unless you win a championship. 

9 minutes ago, Jesse said:

That's one game.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Nichols supporter. And I have full faith in him to be successful in the play offs again, but given the qualifying question of, "Is Matt Nichols elite?" We need to see  him do it multiple times in the play offs to say yes. Matt can do all he wants during the season, but as we saw with Calgary last year, it means nothing until you can bring home a championship.

I believe Matt can do it. But it's not a question he can fully answer right now. It will take a few seasons of consistency. 

I don't recall the issues (like possible injuries or just bad plays..etc) but this is Nichols playoffs to date;

2012: WSF: 3/7  for 51 yards 0 TDs 0 INTs    - Kerry Joseph was the starter and took the majority of reps in the loss

2014: WSF 12/23 for 59 yards 0 TDs 1 INT - Reilly came in relief going 6/8 for 53 yards 0 TDs 0 INT, and they still beat the riders 18-10

2014 WF: 9/15 for 92 yards 0 TDs 0 INT - Reilly i think may have started that game going 20/33 for 216 yards 2 TDs 1 INT  losing to the stamps 43-18

that's all the playoffs he's played, so i guess with that said he does have very minimal post season experience/success but if i had to base his production on recent memory he's trending the right direction

2014 WF was a Calgary blow out if I remember correctly.

The other thing about Nichols is he could of easily packed it in after suffering that second massive knee injury. Came back stronger and better. I imagine being that close to having your career end is a motivating factor.

51 minutes ago, Ripper said:

They are missing Walker this year. Bowman out is a huge blow. Oline has been shaky so far. Reilly is running for his life and taking hits. He is still making plays and winning. Injuries to rb's has them not running the ball as well. Lots of holes on a undefeated team, which is a odd thing to say.  I think Reilly is just keeping it together.

I would agree with this.  There are great athletes out there, and a few elevate the play of those around them. I would put Reilly and even Nichols in that category.

Just because a guy doesn't have a ring, or set the world afire in the play-offfs doesn't mean they are not elite..leagues are littered with superstars who never won the big one, or didn't have stellar numbers...bug whip

BLM has actually shat the bed more than he has won in playoff crunch time, so is he not elite then as he is far from consistent in getting his team to win in the play-offs.  Calvillo as well lost more than he won in cups, so that would say he wasn't consistent and sub par too then...correct?

To be honest, I think that Nichols right now is the only guy I'd want running this team if I had a choice..his tea mates seem to echo what he means to them and the team. 

I as well was not a big time Nichols supporter either, but he has won me over, and from what I hear from people involved with actually playing, and playing against him, he is very well respected and a guy that guys would love to play with...for what its worth

Edited August 14, 20178 yr by Booch

The facts of life in this league is that each team has one decent QB .... if they get injured that team is toast .... unless they are an elite team .... then whoever is QB on the elite team looks good ... the great backups just have an elite team

After the late pick that cost the Bombers the win against the Lions........Nichols put it directly on himself, stated he had to be better and promised he would be.      Stats and the ole measurables aside - this is what you want, leading your team.

Edited August 14, 20178 yr by do or die

I thought Nichols was a little shaky to start the season, but he's been very good the last few weeks. I wouldn't call him elite, but very good is good enough for me.

1 hour ago, Jesse said:

Play off games.

This is where I'm at too.  I like Nichols, really do.  And moreso, I think he's accomplished virtually all we could have reasonably expected when he took over for Willy.  I don't see why he can't be a Grey Cup Champion in the near future; the pieces are there & he's got the leadership and intangibles, without question. 

Quote

Elite: "a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities."   

I don't doubt Nichols elite status for the quality he brings.  Time will tell if he has the ability to shoulder a team, when it matters most, and come out with a W.   CFL is a 9 team league, so IMO that means to be elite out of only 9 starting QB's, you need playoff success.  Whether that's fair or not on QBs, well that's another debate. 

9 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

I thought Nichols was a little shaky to start the season, but he's been very good the last few weeks. I wouldn't call him elite, but very good is good enough for me.

Can you win with him? Does the team believe in him?  Is he making bad plays causing turnovers?   Nichols has these three things going for him. DD was never a elite passer, always middle of the road or a bit above stats. In the right situation, Durant could seize the moment and win a big game for you.  Even in his prime I don't know that I would ever referred to Durant as a elite qb.  Good enough to win with? Absolutely..   Nichols will never be a elite qb on numbers alone, he doesn't throw the long ball well enough to compare with the greats. Can the Bombers maybe win one with him at the controls?  It could happen. At this point in time, there is no viable option to replace him with anyone. He is getting the job done and is stringing some good games together. Over time the string will be evaluated against others and he may land higher on the list than I think.. 

16 minutes ago, Ripper said:

Can you win with him? Does the team believe in him?  Is he making bad plays causing turnovers?   Nichols has these three things going for him. DD was never a elite passer, always middle of the road or a bit above stats. In the right situation, Durant could seize the moment and win a big game for you.  Even in his prime I don't know that I would ever referred to Durant as a elite qb.  Good enough to win with? Absolutely..   Nichols will never be a elite qb on numbers alone, he doesn't throw the long ball well enough to compare with the greats. Can the Bombers maybe win one with him at the controls?  It could happen. At this point in time, there is no viable option to replace him with anyone. He is getting the job done and is stringing some good games together. Over time the string will be evaluated against others and he may land higher on the list than I think.. 

Good post.

Though I'd say the bolded applies to what, 85% of pro football teams out there and all but maybe 2 CFL teams?   QBs who are good enough to start, will start somewhere.  The Aaron Rodgers scenario is few & far between.

Blue are in good shape with their #2 and #3, IMO.  Decent mix of CFL experience & pedigree, and with Davis, still some potential untapped I figure. 

For what its worth since somebody mentioned Milt, he was the game's leading receiver in both Grey Cups that he played in.

3 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

For what its worth since somebody mentioned Milt, he was the game's leading receiver in both Grey Cups that he played in.

It's a shame we couldn't win a ring for Milt. He always came out to play. No matter how many crappy QB's we had throw him the ball in his career.