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He breaks down the details re: Bombers and Willy situation

13 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

How many years does a qb need to be in the league before you can judge him?

How about just give a fair and impartial judgement? Some people though want to pin all the ills of a team on the qb when the reality is there are many other pieces that impact a team. 

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

How about just give a fair and impartial judgement? Some people though want to pin all the ills of a team on the qb when the reality is there are many other pieces that impact a team. 

And at the same time, there are those who want to try and find excuses for a qb's bad play.  

Drew Willy has never played a full season in the league, fwiw. If you want to judge him for his injury history, that's completely fair game.

1 minute ago, WBBFanWest said:

And at the same time, there are those who want to try and find excuses for a qb's bad play.  

No, reasons not excuses, big difference. 

25 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

you already judged him

yah, based on a very full body of work, 2.25 seasons as a starter. his resume is very poor.

bazinga?

It's pretty obvious Willy isn't as bad of a quarterback as some think.

 

We wouldn't have gotten the return we did for him if he lacked talent the way some of the members here have suggested.

2 minutes ago, Mike said:

It's pretty obvious Willy isn't as bad of a quarterback as some think.

 

We wouldn't have gotten the return we did for him if he lacked talent the way some of the members here have suggested.

Where would you rank Willy as a QB in the CFL? All QB's of all teams? Top 10? Top 15?

Yup. Willy got us a very good DB... a 3rd and a 1st more than likely top 4 pick... he's not awful at all. He just lost his MOJO.  The guy was solid to start here but then injuries and mental issues caught up to him. He wi probably turn it around in the T Dot where there is less fan and media pressure.  Sometimes... some guys just can't deal with the pressure in a football crazy market. People wonder why guys like Collaros or Harris or guys like that signed in Ontario. Less media and fan pressure for sure. It takes a very thick skinned individual to make it work in markets like winnipeg and Regina and even Edmonton for that matter 

Peggars QB rankings:

1. Mitchell
2. Reilly
3. Collaros
4. Harris
5. Jennings
6. Burris
7. Durant 
8. Nichols
9. Ray
10. Franklin
11. Masoli
12. Willy
13. Glenn
14. Cato
15. Lulay 

Nosoli on Masoli. And Franklin? Not yet..

4 minutes ago, peggars said:

Peggars QB rankings:

1. Mitchell
2. Reilly
3. Collaros
4. Harris
5. Jennings
6. Burris
7. Durant 
8. Nichols
9. Ray
10. Franklin
11. Masoli
12. Willy
13. Glenn
14. Cato
15. Lulay 

I think this is a pretty decent list. I think most people would have Willy some where around 11-15. I think the fact Toronto overpaid in a time of desperation doesn't mean Willy has a higher value. 

 

12 minutes ago, Mike said:

It's pretty obvious Willy isn't as bad of a quarterback as some think.

 

We wouldn't have gotten the return we did for him if he lacked talent the way some of the members here have suggested.

We got the return based on desperation and potential.  We sold at the absolute best time.

His value will significantly drop if he doesn't show anything in Toronto.   

Franklin has to be at the bottom of the list or maybe above Cato.. has he even played a down this season?

The guys who basically found Collaros and Harris see potential in Willy. Shouldn't that be enough proof that he's not as bad as people think 

19 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

No, reasons not excuses, big difference. 

One man's reasons are another man's excuses.  For example:  Willy never got to play with this o-line so we don't know how good he could have been.  

Seems reasonable on the face of it until you factor in that if you hang on to the ball as long as Willy did, no o line will ever be good enough.  And if all you're prepared to do is throw check down passes because you lack the confidence to do anything else, that's not on anyone else.

Drew might yet turn out to be a good qb, but if he does, it's not because the o-line got fixed, it's because his head was.

Not going to lie. I'm very surprised Toronto would pay that much for Willy. Good for the Bombers that they got the return they did for him.

43 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

One man's reasons are another man's excuses.  For example:  Willy never got to play with this o-line so we don't know how good he could have been.  

Seems reasonable on the face of it until you factor in that if you hang on to the ball as long as Willy did, no o line will ever be good enough.  And if all you're prepared to do is throw check down passes because you lack the confidence to do anything else, that's not on anyone else.

Drew might yet turn out to be a good qb, but if he does, it's not because the o-line got fixed, it's because his head was.

Or how about if he got to play with an OL that didn't have a break down at regular intervals his head wouldn't be an issue. There is a reason that Kyle Walters drafts offensive linemen every first round of the draft even if they aren't the best players on board. Because he knows that the OL is key and ever since they benched Willy and put in 3 americans this is the first time the team has actually had a good group. You see the difference in the run game, you see the difference in the teams confidence. Trenches are key, also why the D is better too, the DL has been improved bigtime and this is easily the best group Walters has put on the field for Winnipeg. You win and lose games in the trenches and it was the change at OL that had a bigger impact on the team than anything else. Willy and Nichols had pretty similar stats, but Willy dealt with a lot more **** and didn't have the benefit of a defense going +25 or something in the turnover battle. The one game his D did do that for him he won. Let's not ignore that.

 

Some people though just like to look at wins and losse and assign it totally to the quarterback. 

The guys who chose Ray over Collaros and Harris, overpaid for Willy IMO. Not that I'm complaining.

3 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

The guys who chose Ray over Collaros and Harris, overpaid for Willy IMO. Not that I'm complaining.

They also found and developed Harris and Collaros, and Ricky Ray is still a veteran quarterback who is going to be in the hall of fame, not exactly the dumbest move, especially when you consider they did try and keep Harris. 

If Milanovich sees something in Willy none of us should question it. In fact a good many people who know a thing or two about professional qbs see something in Willy. 

Willy's game is likely the most like Ray's than anyone else. Argo's maybe thinking a situation of Drew mentoring under Ray with Willy eventually taking over.  No doubt his contract will be renegotiated as well.  

17 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Or how about if he got to play with an OL that didn't have a break down at regular intervals his head wouldn't be an issue. There is a reason that Kyle Walters drafts offensive linemen every first round of the draft even if they aren't the best players on board. Because he knows that the OL is key and ever since they benched Willy and put in 3 americans this is the first time the team has actually had a good group. You see the difference in the run game, you see the difference in the teams confidence. Trenches are key, also why the D is better too, the DL has been improved bigtime and this is easily the best group Walters has put on the field for Winnipeg. You win and lose games in the trenches and it was the change at OL that had a bigger impact on the team than anything else. Willy and Nichols had pretty similar stats, but Willy dealt with a lot more **** and didn't have the benefit of a defense going +25 or something in the turnover battle. The one game his D did do that for him he won. Let's not ignore that.

 

Some people though just like to look at wins and losse and assign it totally to the quarterback. 

Or... maybe people started playing better because they had confidence in Nichols and had lost confidence in Drew.  You're right, it's never a everything or nothing on the qb, but I think you're underestimating just how bad Willy was playing.  The team (o-line, d, special teams) seems to be playing with a heart and a grit that was missing earlier in the season.  Did everyone suddenly get better or did a change in qb help spark it all.  My guess is that it was a little of the former and a whole lot more of the latter.  

Dave and I were talking this morning about how it's similar to when Michael Bishop was 11-1 in Toronto in 2007, including a 9-game win streak. People were like "BISHOP!! ALL HE DOES IS WIN!!!11!" while overlooking the fact that he was an awful QB who had an incredible Stubler D and ST led by MOS and Co (still playing).......eerily similar situation. Fwiw, I think Nichols is a much smarter QB than Bishop (notoriously one of the dumbest) but still...there are some similarities...

1 hour ago, peggars said:

Peggars QB rankings:

1. Mitchell
2. Reilly
3. Collaros
4. Harris
5. Jennings
6. Burris
7. Durant 
8. Nichols
9. Ray
10. Franklin
11. Masoli
12. Willy
13. Glenn
14. Cato
15. Lulay 

Pretty sure you can plug Drew Tate in anywhere between 6 - 12.... he's better than many, but Mitchell has stayed healthy so he hasn't seen the field.

5 hours ago, sweep the leg said:

Where's the speculation coming from?

Stock market was abuzz this morning.

1 hour ago, Mike said:

It's pretty obvious Willy isn't as bad of a quarterback as some think.

 

We wouldn't have gotten the return we did for him if he lacked talent the way some of the members here have suggested.

OR

TO is just desperate enough to gamble on Willy being a potential star down the road with Ray being gone for most of the season. 

There are alot of factors at play in TO.  New stadium, losing record, low attendance, things that don't allow for extended losing streaks with unknown QBs.  Lefevour seemed like a desperation move that paid off this weekend.