Adrenaline_x Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Mike said: It's pretty obvious Willy isn't as bad of a quarterback as some think. We wouldn't have gotten the return we did for him if he lacked talent the way some of the members here have suggested. OR TO is just desperate enough to gamble on Willy being a potential star down the road with Ray being gone for most of the season. There are alot of factors at play in TO. New stadium, losing record, low attendance, things that don't allow for extended losing streaks with unknown QBs. Lefevour seemed like a desperation move that paid off this weekend. Brandon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripper Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, Noeller said: Dave and I were talking this morning about how it's similar to when Michael Bishop was 11-1 in Toronto in 2007, including a 9-game win streak. People were like "BISHOP!! ALL HE DOES IS WIN!!!11!" while overlooking the fact that he was an awful QB who had an incredible Stubler D and ST led by MOS and Co (still playing).......eerily similar situation. Fwiw, I think Nichols is a much smarter QB than Bishop (notoriously one of the dumbest) but still...there are some similarities... I agree. Nichols didn't do much scoring against the worst team in the league 2 weeks in a row, or the prior weeks leading up to it. I'm very leery about Bombers going with Glenn as a backup also. Still believe you guys were better off with Willy. Hope it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 13 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said: Or... maybe people started playing better because they had confidence in Nichols and had lost confidence in Drew. You're right, it's never a everything or nothing on the qb, but I think you're underestimating just how bad Willy was playing. The team (o-line, d, special teams) seems to be playing with a heart and a grit that was missing earlier in the season. Did everyone suddenly get better or did a change in qb help spark it all. My guess is that it was a little of the former and a whole lot more of the latter. The defense was improving before they made a change at quarterback. The changes on the DL (and they replaced 3/4 of the positions this year let us not forget) took time to come together as a group and getting Cole back healthy also helped, but in general the rookies at the 2nd DE spot took a few games to get into the swing of things, took the LBs a bit to get into their grooves playing new positions, some changes in the defensive secondary helped. Those guys were improving even before Willy went out too. They were great in the game Willy won against Hamilton and they were good in the game Willy lost against Edmonton too and have just kept getting better since. That's independent of what was happening at the quarterback position. The OL got better by Neufeld going out and the force to use 3 americans. Suddenly the team can run the ball, can convert when they hand off on 2nd and short and can protect the qb better. Willy had some confidence issues, but can you blame him? He never had a reliable run game to lean on or a reliable offensive line. You say the team lost confidence in Willy, I say Willy lost confidence in his team, both are probably true and justified, but confidence can come back when things change, I don't believe Willy was beyond hope and obviously Toronto doesn't either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_x Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 (edited) Delete Edited September 12, 2016 by Adrenaline_x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimJahey Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Mike said: It's pretty obvious Willy isn't as bad of a quarterback as some think. We wouldn't have gotten the return we did for him if he lacked talent the way some of the members here have suggested. Not as bad as some think, not as good as others think. Somewhere in the middle and im sure if you had a poll most fans are happy with Nichols. I really dont understand the constant second guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimJahey Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 6 minutes ago, Ripper said: I agree. Nichols didn't do much scoring against the worst team in the league 2 weeks in a row, or the prior weeks leading up to it. I'm very leery about Bombers going with Glenn as a backup also. Still believe you guys were better off with Willy. Hope it works out. Sask played a couple of very good games, this was their Grey Cup and our guys just keep plugging along. We've put up big numbers in the past against Hamilton and Toronto. with everything going back to normal i think we will see a little more offensive production this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBird Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 17 minutes ago, Ripper said: I agree. Nichols didn't do much scoring against the worst team in the league 2 weeks in a row, or the prior weeks leading up to it. I'm very leery about Bombers going with Glenn as a backup also. Still believe you guys were better off with Willy. Hope it works out. money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Out Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Calgary scored 19 points against the Riders, I guess we should predict the demise of Mitchell and the Stamps too, hey? Garbage. More like it. Judd and Mr Dee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold_Palmer Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 You CANT compare Bishop to Nichols. Yes Toronto had a great defense in 2007 but we all know Bishop had all the tools but couldn't read a defense. He barely completed 50 percent of his throws in his entire career, and had more INTS then Touchdowns, where Nichols has a quick release, he has a high completion percentage and he doesn't turn over the ball. Basically Toronto won on good defense, and letting Bishop occasionally connect by airing it out. Personally I feel like our team is now set up in a good position to win today, but set up even better in the future with a 1st and 3rd round draft pick, and a talented DB under contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Arnold_Palmer said: You CANT compare Bishop to Nichols. Yes Toronto had a great defense in 2007 but we all know Bishop had all the tools but couldn't read a defense. He barely completed 50 percent of his throws in his entire career, and had more INTS then Touchdowns, where Nichols has a quick release, he has a high completion percentage and he doesn't turn over the ball. Basically Toronto won on good defense, and letting Bishop occasionally connect by airing it out. Personally I feel like our team is now set up in a good position to win today, but set up even better in the future with a 1st and 3rd round draft pick, and a talented DB under contract. OK but the Bombers are winning by good defense and Nichols playing the ultra conservative Lapolice offence where you complete 5 passes and get 10 yards out of the deal... What's the real difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dee Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Quote Still believe you guys were better off with Willy. The factors involved indicate different. This trade was no spur of the moment, flip of the coin decision. There were circumstances and implications. Two weeks ago...no way trade is made. Then Ray goes down, Toronto gets a little more anxious. The demotion of Glenn sealed it. Better off with Willy? - if he played? We just don't know. There were questions. So that leaves Willy as a backup. Better off with Willy as a backup? Again, question marks. And kind of a big salary for question marks. Leaving the situation was risky and would not have gone any better as time moved on. As we've talked about it here, for a long time, if we could pick an ideal backup for your team...Kevin Glenn would be it. And voila, it's done. We all hope the best for Willy...it just wasn't a fit here, at this time, for whatever reason. This trade re-aligns the roster and upgrades the future, and avoids those nagging questions. blitzmore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Negatron Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 And really, if Willy goes to Toronto and lights it up, I think this trade is still a big win for the Bombers. Sometimes a change of scenery is all a guy needs, and that change may never going to happen if the guy stays put. Would Seguin be the player he is today if he stayed in Boston? There is no way you can ever say for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J5V Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 On 9/11/2016 at 9:54 PM, iso_55 said: Yes, Milanovich, my bad. That's what happens when you drink that slop. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimJahey Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 2 hours ago, Arnold_Palmer said: You CANT compare Bishop to Nichols. Yes Toronto had a great defense in 2007 but we all know Bishop had all the tools but couldn't read a defense. He barely completed 50 percent of his throws in his entire career, and had more INTS then Touchdowns, where Nichols has a quick release, he has a high completion percentage and he doesn't turn over the ball. Basically Toronto won on good defense, and letting Bishop occasionally connect by airing it out. Personally I feel like our team is now set up in a good position to win today, but set up even better in the future with a 1st and 3rd round draft pick, and a talented DB under contract. im pretty sure they were inferring he is the opposite of Nichols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripper Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 2 hours ago, White Out said: Calgary scored 19 points against the Riders, I guess we should predict the demise of Mitchell and the Stamps too, hey? Garbage. More like it. You don't see a few differences in how Mitchell plays and how Nichols plays? You guys have had repeated trips to the red zone that have resulted in field goals over the 6 games Nichols has played, Mitchell and the Calgary offense, not so much. I'll just leave it at that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripper Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Mr Dee said: The factors involved indicate different. This trade was no spur of the moment, flip of the coin decision. There were circumstances and implications. Two weeks ago...no way trade is made. Then Ray goes down, Toronto gets a little more anxious. The demotion of Glenn sealed it. Better off with Willy? - if he played? We just don't know. There were questions. So that leaves Willy as a backup. Better off with Willy as a backup? Again, question marks. And kind of a big salary for question marks. Leaving the situation was risky and would not have gone any better as time moved on. As we've talked about it here, for a long time, if we could pick an ideal backup for your team...Kevin Glenn would be it. And voila, it's done. We all hope the best for Willy...it just wasn't a fit here, at this time, for whatever reason. This trade re-aligns the roster and upgrades the future, and avoids those nagging questions. I meant better off with Willy here as a backup. Obviously any coach would continue to roll with Nichols as long as he is winning. I don't believe in tinkering with a roster when they are winning. A portion of the guys in that room were friends with Drew and probably didn't want to see him go. That is tinkering.. Guess we'll see if it mattered the next time you guys play. Glenn won't have the whole playbook figured out by next week and god help you if Glenn needs to play this year. I have no dog in this fight. I'm happy to see Willy get another chance and clearly see he was making too much money. I would have IMHO, kept Drew the rest of the year and looked at things in the off season if I thought I had a team to make a run in the playoffs. If management doesn't see you as a contender then the trade makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Ripper said: I meant better off with Willy here as a backup. Obviously any coach would continue to roll with Nichols as long as he is winning. I don't believe in tinkering with a roster when they are winning. A portion of the guys in that room were friends with Drew and probably didn't want to see him go. That is tinkering.. Guess we'll see if it mattered the next time you guys play. Glenn won't have the whole playbook figured out by next week and god help you if Glenn needs to play this year. I have no dog in this fight. I'm happy to see Willy get another chance and clearly see he was making too much money. I would have IMHO, kept Drew the rest of the year and looked at things in the off season if I thought I had a team to make a run in the playoffs. If management doesn't see you as a contender then the trade makes perfect sense. I don't believe they were better off to be honest with you. At absolute worst Kevin Glenn and Willy as a saw off at backup qb, but Glenn could very well be superior. Then we added a db who is not too shabby as well which is also a good thing. Getting another first round pick helps the team stay good in the future because depth is the difference between winning seasons and losing seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Barker saying that they'd been trying to do this deal without Heath involved for awhile now, but Walters long-cocked him on the porch....refused to do the deal without Heath, and then Barker realized that this was the best deal they were going to get, so he had to cave. Good on Walters for holding strong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbbfan Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 2 hours ago, Super Duper Negatron said: And really, if Willy goes to Toronto and lights it up, I think this trade is still a big win for the Bombers. Sometimes a change of scenery is all a guy needs, and that change may never going to happen if the guy stays put. Would Seguin be the player he is today if he stayed in Boston? There is no way you can ever say for sure. Its gonna be really hard for TO to win that deal. Like, willy has to become an MOP, or heath retires before playing a game and we some how use the draft pick on tyson pencer or jade etienne again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 6 hours ago, peggars said: Peggars QB rankings: Mitchell Reilly Collaros Harris Jennings Burris Durant Nichols Ray Franklin Masoli Willy Glenn Cato Lulay Pretty good list... I think in the official bearpants rankings, I wouls switch Durant and Burris... probably knock Masoli down below Willy and Glenn... 4 hours ago, Noeller said: Dave and I were talking this morning about how it's similar to when Michael Bishop was 11-1 in Toronto in 2007, including a 9-game win streak. People were like "BISHOP!! ALL HE DOES IS WIN!!!11!" while overlooking the fact that he was an awful QB who had an incredible Stubler D and ST led by MOS and Co (still playing).......eerily similar situation. Fwiw, I think Nichols is a much smarter QB than Bishop (notoriously one of the dumbest) but still...there are some similarities... That's not much of a compliment... I think I'm probably a smarter QB than Micheal Bishop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peggars Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 (edited) nichols said earlier that he was throwing the ball more timidly to erase some of the higher risk throws he made last year. I think Lapo and Osh are telling him to play conservative and rely on defense and turnovers to win games. When we have needed drives (ie. when he cant play conservatively) he has managed to produce long drives resulting in a score. We are playing the safe game, and winning by it, so i dont see that changing. But if we go down by 10 or 14 points, i expect the kid gloves will be off nichols and he would be more effective in sustaining TD drives (but with higher risk for turnovers). Edited September 12, 2016 by peggars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 As much as I liked Willy.. I hope he does fail in Toronto just to finally see Noeller,17to85 and to a certain degree Mike eat crow and admit that Willy doesn't have it. Willy continued to regress during his time with us. The o line this season even at the start of this season was much better then the last few seasons and were getting better with each game. Willy at the end was holding onto the ball for way to long. He was absolutely terrible and it was mainly on himself. It's not like the o line magically clicked in one week... It was Nicholls making quick reads and getting the ball out which opened up things for the offense. It's funny that someone brought up Glenn having one great game and of you took his stats from that one game away then his numbers look mediocre. If you took Willy's stats when the opponent was laying back since the game was out of hand and took all his garbage time stats away from him...you would have Alex Brink like stats. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Bishop win more games for us in one season then Drew Willy ever has? All running a Mike Kelly offense where he joined us mid season? Willy succcccks and a lot of it is on himself...no excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 and if he does look good in Toronto will you be eating a serving of humble pie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noeller Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 This year he might not look much better cause their team is ****, but next year I expect big things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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