Tracker Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 If you want another frame of reference, look at the Winnipeg airport and the expensive renovations it had to go through to be fully functional, and that had nothing to do with BBB. Poop happens and the guilty party or parties do carry insurance, thank God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bustamente Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 So if it's true an insurers will cover this we have nothing to worry about........right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 So if it's true an insurers will cover this we have nothing to worry about........right With the amount of money in play here, the insurance company or companies will fight like cornered badgers to try to avoid paying out. They try to prove willful negligence on the part of the insured(s) and are probably already prepping their strategies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueBlue83 Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 I've wondered (and will almost certainly never find out for sure) how much of this design was from the original, which was Asper/Creswin's initial plan? Knowing the NDP wanted to rush this thing along surely didn't give the architect the time they needed to properly go through this whole design prior to construction start. if everything was happening on the fly, which it sounds like it was... blame is going to fall in all different areas deepening on the particular scope of work meeting spec. This will be tied up in the courts for years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 The way I see it Asper is a guy to blame, he basically started building or at least started excavating the site before it was even approved Wan is to blame, he's the architect because he's known to be a bit of an ass and if someone actually did question his design, he would defend it to the death even if he was and in this case IS wrong BBB gets blame for sure but not sure how much blame they get, they really aren't the experts in this, they are probably just going on what people tell them Stuart Olsen should probably get the most blame, along with Wan... I mean, yeah might be a bad design but... they built it right... crappy concrete isn't an architects issue, it's the contractors issue... Gonna say it, I honestly Feel that Stuart Olsen is probably the most at blame here... Yup the architect takes some blame for a bad design, or maybe not a bad design, it's a pretty cool looking place, but more so... the design flaws i guess you can say, The little things really, that's Wans fault but... concrete and stuff like that... not backfilling, other things, man that's on the contractor and the contractor alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bustamente Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 I wanna know whose idea it was to hire an architect who had never designed a Stadium before in his life. That's the biggest corner cut in this whole mess. DR. CFL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Wan was Aspers guy... and still is to this day, every time Creswin builds a property, Wan is the architect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 The issue isnt necessarily Wan. He was Asper's guy for all his projects so he was going to be involved. They hired a firm with actual stadium design experience early on and then let them go. if I recall, the feeling was Wan expressed he didnt need their input. Thats where they went wrong. Wan is Wan. But he would have been capable if they had kept the other firm on as consultants, I imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bustamente Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Why was Asper making so many decisions for the Bombers including bring in his own guy who didn't have the credentials or knowledge to design a stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Because this whole thing started with Asper getting the plans drawn up and wanting to buy the team to get things done. The purchase never happened, new deals were made, and Aspers original plans used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 You need to go back in time to the start of all this... Heres just a off the top of my head time line of events Asper says he will build a stadium at U of M i believe and to fund it, he will build something around Polo Park called the Elms... He's so confident of this that he actually hires someone to start excavating the spot where IGF currently sits (before he had any money or approval) Some time goes by... Asper doesn't have the money cuz Aspers never spend their own money, they always spend somebody elses... The bombers and more so the province are kind of put between a rock and a hard place on this, do you say screw it and just pump money in to a falling apart Canad Inns stadium that probably needs basically 100 plus million or so to actually be upgraded to todays standards or do you just build a new one... They decide to build a new one.. I wasn't involved in any of this LOL obviously but... this is where we all guess what happens next..... lots of back and forth i'd imagine, lots of changed designs, IGF looks nothing like Aspers drawing looked like.. AT ALL actually... Lets see if I can find the original drawing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bustamente Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Sounds like the government really dropped the ball on this one, pushing a project to gain favor with the voting public but in the end looks like another nail in the coffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basslicker Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Why was Asper making so many decisions for the Bombers including bring in his own guy who didn't have the credentials or knowledge to design a stadium. Because that's how the BOD works. It's all buddies and friends. Same reason why the team sucks. ..........nothing ever actually changes in the places that matter. .....the BOD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueandgoldguy Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Im no expert. But if I hire someone to build my house, is it a reasonable assumption that the person hired to design the house and the contractor hired to build the house know what they are doing (assuming they are reputable)? And if the contractor comes to me to sign off on some element of construction, am I supposed to know if its faulty? Or is he supposed to make sure its not faulty? I was perusing Skyscraper forum and some architects and insiders on there are saying this is bigger than everyone knows and that we would be shocked if we knew what they were about to do to the stadium to repair it. Sounds like a gut job to a degree. And supposedly this $30+ million is to keep the building from falling down and IGF will need further repairs and renos down the road. The NDP will put this off as along as possible so it's PC's problem when they win the election TrueViking mentioned over a year ago (possibly even 2 years ago) that the cost overruns of the stadium would exceed $40 million due to shoddy work. He nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Actually Asper is the only constant on the BOD... so if you are looking to blame anyone on the BOD, he's the guy... cuz he's the only guy who has been around for as long as he has, the rest of the BOD members, not all but certainly quite a few of them are pretty brand new to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon37 Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 The people who basically demanded the government to get involved are to blame, and that includes many of the people on this and OB forum, as much as the government. I was opposed to the province funding this from the start because stadiums in Canada are generally a far larger risk than arenas like MTS. As far as I am concerned if you were all in for governments funding this then turn that finger on yourself. Everyone in Manitoba and Canada are going to be footing a big bill for this for a long time. I hold those who built/designed it and the Bombers for much of the problems that have resulted. DR. CFL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dee Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Finally, somebody who's innocent in this whole matter.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPuDS Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 All said and done.. A new stadium as majestic as ours is (and it is a beaut.. i dont care what anyone says.. Great sight lines, comfy seats, cover works and my only legit complaint is the concourses being so tight when everyone is mobile..) for what.. 250 million all said and done.. Is a great deal. Why people feel the need to piss and moan all about the cost or the debt over and over again is beyond me.. What is it going to cost individual tax payers at the end of the day.. 100$? Fair deal for now many decades of use? Kids playing HS football champonships there. Our University being a crowning jewel for football in the country.. i get cheapskates love to cry about spilled milk but frankly, its laughable. Even if you never step foot in the stadium yourself, shouldnt you want your friends and family to be able to enjoy a top tier stadium instead of the crapshack we had? Tracker and Mr Dee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Why was it so important to get the stadium built in 2 years rather than 3? I think rushing it through like that caused all the problems. We had Canad Inns in place to be able to use so it wasn't like the situation in Hamilton or Ottawa. DR. CFL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR. CFL Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Just another example of an poorly thought out plan that wasn't really thought out. History does seem to be repeating itself . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dee Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Yeah, yeah, but it's all said and done. Well, not done. Every six months, or so, we'll hear the same spiel on the planning, the architect, lawyers, Asper, cement, concourse, cheap, access, egress, address, the whole enchilada all over again. IGF field. Itemized Grief Forever... SPuDS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigseye Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Seriously though, $250M seems a lot more realistic to build that facility, I think the dippers had the wool pulled over their eyes is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueandgoldguy Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 You need to go back in time to the start of all this... Heres just a off the top of my head time line of events Asper says he will build a stadium at U of M i believe and to fund it, he will build something around Polo Park called the Elms... He's so confident of this that he actually hires someone to start excavating the spot where IGF currently sits (before he had any money or approval) Some time goes by... Asper doesn't have the money cuz Aspers never spend their own money, they always spend somebody elses... The bombers and more so the province are kind of put between a rock and a hard place on this, do you say screw it and just pump money in to a falling apart Canad Inns stadium that probably needs basically 100 plus million or so to actually be upgraded to todays standards or do you just build a new one... They decide to build a new one.. I wasn't involved in any of this LOL obviously but... this is where we all guess what happens next..... lots of back and forth i'd imagine, lots of changed designs, IGF looks nothing like Aspers drawing looked like.. AT ALL actually... Lets see if I can find the original drawing here. Asper couldn't find enough tenants for his Elms project at Polo Park. Not surprising given the state of the economy back in 2009 and 2010 coming off the recession and also the demographics in Winnipeg aren't there to support a large-scale luxury retail project like the Elms. I don't think he even secured an anchor tenant for the development. I remember after the official ceremony in May 2010 all they did on the U of M site for half of year was push dirt around until December or January when the province decided to fund the entire project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueandgoldguy Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 All said and done.. A new stadium as majestic as ours is (and it is a beaut.. i dont care what anyone says.. Great sight lines, comfy seats, cover works and my only legit complaint is the concourses being so tight when everyone is mobile..) for what.. 250 million all said and done.. Is a great deal. Why people feel the need to piss and moan all about the cost or the debt over and over again is beyond me.. What is it going to cost individual tax payers at the end of the day.. 100$? Fair deal for now many decades of use? Kids playing HS football champonships there. Our University being a crowning jewel for football in the country.. i get cheapskates love to cry about spilled milk but frankly, its laughable. Even if you never step foot in the stadium yourself, shouldnt you want your friends and family to be able to enjoy a top tier stadium instead of the crapshack we had? Not when they waste money that would have not been needed in the first place if BBB, Wan, SO and whoever else had done things properly to begin with. Potentially $50 million in wasted taxpayers dollars due to shoddy workmanship. Sellinger loves guys like you. What's a few million between friends huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueandgoldguy Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Why was it so important to get the stadium built in 2 years rather than 3? I think rushing it through like that caused all the problems. We had Canad Inns in place to be able to use so it wasn't like the situation in Hamilton or Ottawa. It was 3 years...well actually 2.5 years as they had the ground-breaking in May of 2010 but proceeded to do nothing but push dirt around for 6 or so months as Asper's retail dream failed to come to fruition. I guess they didn't want to delay any longer as 2.5 years should have been more than adequate time to build. I seem to remember some stories floating around that once it was confirmed the stadium would not open in 2012, the BBB cut back the hours construction crews worked on the stadium to ensure no overtime was used to keep costs from exceeding the budget. I can't verify that but I can't help but be a little suspicious as they were still scrambling to put the finishing touches on the stadium prior to the first game of the season. Meanwhile in Minneapolis, they are on schedule to finish a 1.8 million square foot, 65,000 seat stadium in 2.5 years. They also had to account for the destruction of the old stadium within that same time frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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