Its game day!

 

First of three games for these teams.  The Bombers, currently first place in the West, against the Roughriders, reigning Grey Cup champions.

 

Drew Willy facing his old team.

 

Will Ford running against his old team.

 

Winnipeg vs. Saskatchewan!

 

Weather for game time looks to be sunny and 26 degrees, with a southern wind @ 27 km/h.

 

As always, for those not attending the game, join us in the chat room!

 

 

 

I worry about the delicate pysche of this team.  For example, Grigsby (at the risk of harping on him).  Its like they thought 'well, we're winning so lets not make any changes we dont have to' even though it seems clear that he either isnt performing as a RB or isnt protecting Willy or both.  Its like they are afraid of their own success.

I wouldn't say that this team has a delicate psyche. They've come from behind a number of times this season and it looks like MOS has instilled an expectation to win. I have no idea why they're sticking with Grigsby at RB, but I doubt it's to protect his feelings. The coaching staff seems to be in love with him for better or worse. Maybe he's the type of guy who dominates practice and turns off in games.

see the post above yours. Instead of blaming just grigsby, look at the Oline also. Dude was constantly being stuffed in the back field, what can the rb do, any running back for that matter do when he always has 2 or 3 if not more guys in his face the second he gets the ball.

I'm not just blaming Grigsby. In the above post he was the only player mentioned by name. I think he's got great speed and they need to find plays that get him into space more often. I do have an issue with his habit of taking the handoff and either slowing up before hitting the line or making a few stutter steps and losing all his momentum.

 

This. There are a lot of times when he will stop and dance around and get nothing... if he'd just keep going forward and go forward hard he'd get at least another yard, maybe more and quite honestly sometimes that's enough to make a difference. He is a hesitant runner who seems to always be trying to get by everyone for a big play when sometimes you just gotta put your head down and make the defender work for the tackle. 

When did Grigsby ever have a hole yesterday? I am being serious here.

There were a few runs that he got 4-5 yards and then got arm tackled on first contact. Granted there weren't many.

Happy in some ways that they beat themselves.  Should be a good lesson.  They didn't get beat, they lost.  The mistakes are relatively fixable (passing from empty backfields way too much being a huge one in terms of slowing down the pass rush).  The defense continues to give up nothing in terms of points.

 

I'd like to see them run the hurry-up offence consistently throughout the game to control the tempo more, especially when the opposing pass rush in that effective.

 

Clearly need a running back.

Watching Whitaker... Grigsby definitely hesitates...

Who was it that I was arguing with about Messam?  FYI:  That's why he was a good choice.

 

Yourself, Floyd and I were the main Messam supporters... I believe watching him play thursday really confirmed our stance on him

I'd blame a large part of the Bombers offence on Bellefeuille. No blocking adjustments were made. No help in the run game when the Riders were run blitzing. No help against John Chick.

 

It was quite embarrassing.

 

Plus he Only runs on first down.... I liked the term Suitor used, run blitz... when they know all we're only going to run on first down, it makes it real easy to stuff via the "run blitz"

 

 

I worry about the delicate pysche of this team.  For example, Grigsby (at the risk of harping on him).  Its like they thought 'well, we're winning so lets not make any changes we dont have to' even though it seems clear that he either isnt performing as a RB or isnt protecting Willy or both.  Its like they are afraid of their own success.

I wouldn't say that this team has a delicate psyche. They've come from behind a number of times this season and it looks like MOS has instilled an expectation to win. I have no idea why they're sticking with Grigsby at RB, but I doubt it's to protect his feelings. The coaching staff seems to be in love with him for better or worse. Maybe he's the type of guy who dominates practice and turns off in games.

 

see the post above yours. Instead of blaming just grigsby, look at the Oline also. Dude was constantly being stuffed in the back field, what can the rb do, any running back for that matter do when he always has 2 or 3 if not more guys in his face the second he gets the ball. 

 

 

Run through them like Messam, Or run around them like Charlie.

 

Simpson and Ford were both better behind Olines that were just as bad as this one.

 

 charles and Gable didnt have much better last season and both were a hell of a lot better than Grigsby

 

Notice how even when we swarm the ball on Messam he still has forward progress? that's because he runs hard and is powerfull. I have a feeling he'd even push Zac Anderson backwards.

 

Get a hand on Grigsby and he falls down

 

When did Grigsby ever have a hole yesterday? I am being serious here.

There were a few runs that he got 4-5 yards and then got arm tackled on first contact. Granted there weren't many.

 

Seems to happen a lot with Grigsby.

 

Also like 17 stated in another thread, loses way to much speed on cuts... hate when he gets choppy feet and runs into his blockers back and falls down after as well.

 

He's just clearly not good enough at running the ball

Let's be honest with ourselves regarding Messam. He's a battering ram, a big guy who keeps his feet well and falls forward when he runs. I do believe he would be moderately more successful *running* the ball than either back we have on the roster now .. If only because he'd grind out an extra yard or two between the tackles (that's still not much). Beyond that, he's relatively one dimensional.

The reason Messam looked good late in the game Thursday us because Saskatchewan's line simply moved Winnipeg off the ball. He wasn't being touched until he was already 4+ yards downfield .. he then pushes the pile and it allowed the Riders to be in a very favourable down and distance .. they controlled the game from that point forward.

I'd kill for that ability to run the ball when everyone in the stadium knows that's what you are going to do.

Put Messam behind our line.....and watch him bulldoze....for 3.5

To be honest I've never seen a RB put up the kind of pathetic running stats Grigsby has in the last two games were he has basically

 

Let's be honest with ourselves regarding Messam. He's a battering ram, a big guy who keeps his feet well and falls forward when he runs. I do believe he would be moderately more successful *running* the ball than either back we have on the roster now .. If only because he'd grind out an extra yard or two between the tackles (that's still not much). Beyond that, he's relatively one dimensional.

The reason Messam looked good late in the game Thursday us because Saskatchewan's line simply moved Winnipeg off the ball. He wasn't being touched until he was already 4+ yards downfield .. he then pushes the pile and it allowed the Riders to be in a very favourable down and distance .. they controlled the game from that point forward.

I'd kill for that ability to run the ball when everyone in the stadium knows that's what you are going to do.

 

Don't know if many of you go this far back but the Als used to have a RB named Steve Ferrughelli who played for 3 or 4 years back in the mid 70's that reminds me of Messam.  This guy was an absolute beast and was a lock to gain 7 or 8 yards each time he carried the ball, even when the other team knew he was getting the ball they still couldn't stop him.  Memory is a bit foggy but I believe he won at least 2 Grey Cups in the years when it was either the EE's or the Als contending for it every year.

So you guys realize he was out of work and has had literally one good half of football in a long time? Maybe we can hold off before engraving the MOP award with his name on it?

A back like Messam is hit or miss with his upright running, his power isn't coming from his lower body.  If teams are prepared for him, he won't be able to do much cause they'll just cut him down.  Usually after he gets cut down a few times he tries to find open space running east-west and then he's really ineffective.  Clearly our D was a little stunned when he started getting the ball.  They still stopped him for little gain quite a few times and didn't give up any TD's when he was in the game.

Put Messam behind our line.....and watch him bulldoze....for 3.5

 

That's 3 yds more than grigsby was getting.    I'm not a CFL GM but if I was I would definitely favour the big power runner vs. the scatback type of rb.   I just feel they're more versatile than the smaller rb.  

A back like Messam is hit or miss with his upright running, his power isn't coming from his lower body.  If teams are prepared for him, he won't be able to do much cause they'll just cut him down.  Usually after he gets cut down a few times he tries to find open space running east-west and then he's really ineffective.  Clearly our D was a little stunned when he started getting the ball.  They still stopped him for little gain quite a few times and didn't give up any TD's when he was in the game.

 

Agreed... but the real benefit that I see Messam brings is that you can field two backs and not affect the ratio - let's say Grigsby and Messam - two totally different styles and keep defences off balance.

 

Basically, that's what happened - Bombers started shutting down Ford so Sask just changed to Messam, took some time to adjust... by that time it was too late.

 

A back like Messam is hit or miss with his upright running, his power isn't coming from his lower body.  If teams are prepared for him, he won't be able to do much cause they'll just cut him down.  Usually after he gets cut down a few times he tries to find open space running east-west and then he's really ineffective.  Clearly our D was a little stunned when he started getting the ball.  They still stopped him for little gain quite a few times and didn't give up any TD's when he was in the game.

 

Agreed... but the real benefit that I see Messam brings is that you can field two backs and not affect the ratio - let's say Grigsby and Messam - two totally different styles and keep defences off balance.

 

Basically, that's what happened - Bombers started shutting down Ford so Sask just changed to Messam, took some time to adjust... by that time it was too late.

 

and yet if the Bombers had avoided turnovers it wouldn't have mattered that Messam had over 100 yards. The Riders simply could not pass the ball against the Bombers D, the only thing they could do was get 6 yards per carry from Messam, but when you're handing off twice like that you're only one short gain from kicking the ball. Willy doesn't commit 4 turnovers the Bombers win and we're LOLing hard at the riders offensive effort. Instead they turned the ball over and lost the game. 

 

A back like Messam is hit or miss with his upright running, his power isn't coming from his lower body.  If teams are prepared for him, he won't be able to do much cause they'll just cut him down.  Usually after he gets cut down a few times he tries to find open space running east-west and then he's really ineffective.  Clearly our D was a little stunned when he started getting the ball.  They still stopped him for little gain quite a few times and didn't give up any TD's when he was in the game.

 

Agreed... but the real benefit that I see Messam brings is that you can field two backs and not affect the ratio - let's say Grigsby and Messam - two totally different styles and keep defences off balance.

 

Basically, that's what happened - Bombers started shutting down Ford so Sask just changed to Messam, took some time to adjust... by that time it was too late.

 

 

Too late for what?

 

Offense doesn't hand 2 TD's to the Riders and it's an easy win.

It's not one or the other.  Riders lose without Messam's 125 yards of rushing in the second half.  They also lose if we don't turn the ball over.  

 

 

A back like Messam is hit or miss with his upright running, his power isn't coming from his lower body.  If teams are prepared for him, he won't be able to do much cause they'll just cut him down.  Usually after he gets cut down a few times he tries to find open space running east-west and then he's really ineffective.  Clearly our D was a little stunned when he started getting the ball.  They still stopped him for little gain quite a few times and didn't give up any TD's when he was in the game.

 

Agreed... but the real benefit that I see Messam brings is that you can field two backs and not affect the ratio - let's say Grigsby and Messam - two totally different styles and keep defences off balance.

 

Basically, that's what happened - Bombers started shutting down Ford so Sask just changed to Messam, took some time to adjust... by that time it was too late.

 

 

Too late for what?

 

Offense doesn't hand 2 TD's to the Riders and it's an easy win.

 

 

Too late to put the game away...?  I don't know - we just ran out of time in the game before the bombers really found an answer for Messam.  I'm sure we'll have something prepared for Labour Day though

 Riders lose without Messam's 125 yards of rushing in the second half.  

Do they really? I want you to actually justify that comment because I see a team that lost because they turned the ball over when they got it and that isn't affected by the Riders picking up meaningless rushing yards (and yes they were meaningless because they didn't result in a hell of a lot of points) 

Riders lose without Messam's 125 yards of rushing in the second half.

Do they really? I want you to actually justify that comment because I see a team that lost because they turned the ball over when they got it and that isn't affected by the Riders picking up meaningless rushing yards (and yes they were meaningless because they didn't result in a hell of a lot of points)

Haha if he did run so well we would have lost by more cause we would have had time for a few more turnovers.

 

 Riders lose without Messam's 125 yards of rushing in the second half.  

Do they really? I want you to actually justify that comment because I see a team that lost because they turned the ball over when they got it and that isn't affected by the Riders picking up meaningless rushing yards (and yes they were meaningless because they didn't result in a hell of a lot of points) 

 

Cuz you asked so nicely....

 

Rider's offense was almost non-existent before they started running Messam.  Continue with that and our offense gets more chances with the ball, their defense gets tired due to lopsided TOP,  they lose the field position battle and the game.  The yards weren't meaningless, although your posts are getting more and more so.

Looking back at this game, I guess I was pumped about our 5 - 1 record and didn't stop to consider one very important fact. Matthias Goossen was making his first start against what is probably the best DL in the league.  Yep, January and Howard had trouble with Chick, but the Riders ran some successful stunts in the interior as well.  If y'all watch the game again, you'll notice Goossen was the one they were picking on.  That was a baptism by fire for him, to say the least.

Loss was ALL on TURNOVERS. If you're going to point a finger, point it at the REAL reason. Sorry to be Captain Obvious, but

C'MON MAN!

I'd blame a large part of the Bombers offence on Bellefeuille. No blocking adjustments were made. No help in the run game when the Riders were run blitzing. No help against John Chick.

 

It was quite embarrassing.

The Bombers did make some adjustments on the OL that helped. They were double teaming Chick as the tackles couldn't do it alone. Pretty subtle what the Riders did with John Chick. He is so quick to the football & getting off on the snap that he can line up a bit wider making it more difficult for the tackles to get to their block. He is so fast that he can still get around the tackles even though he's out a bit wider & get to the quarterback.

Also, Morley was pulling from his center position to nullify  Brackenridge's safety blitz from the outside where he like to go. Which when you think about it, asking a centre to get outside the tackles where Brackenridge is timing his blitz is a huge task. It certainly showed off Morley's quickness & athleticism as he did make a difference. He sure has found a home at center if you ask me. 

The Riders are a veteran team that's won 2 Grey Cups recently. We're a young up & coming team that really does lack experience at a lot of positions.. We at least have optimism that better things are yet to come. I look at the Riders & while they are extremely good, they are getting older. I think they have a couple of good years left while we may be seeing the start of many.

Think of the anger, frustration & despair we all felt under Joe Mack & Tim Burke. As a fan, for me now it's like opening the blinds in the morning after I wake up, seeing the sun shining & say what a glorious day. And the day before was pretty good, too. There's no comparison to this years team & the garbage we put up with in 2012 & especially 2013 where there was absolutely nothing to look forward to. There was no hope.