Bombers at Stumps GDT

[SpeedFlex27]

8 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

I don't disagree that his approach isn't the same and I was never arguing that.  I argued that he wasn't the cheapskate you made him out to be. He still spends money, it's just mostly internally as he seems to prefer re-signing existing guys over attracting new (potentially younger) talent.

He definitely isn't as aggressive in FA as he used to be but the team also wasn't as good so he kinda had to be.  If we maintain the status quo , we"ll be back in that situation.

He became a cheapskate amid these massive profits the team is now reaping... Why? Yeah, we have a veteran team but so what? A  GM should still be aggressive even with a veteran team signing free agent players to push the guys already there. So, we sign a veteran free agent who pushes out a player already at that position. So what? I look at that as an improvement. Not just handing a guy like Thomas a starting spot every year. If Thomas is our best & the coaches actually think the players behind aren't as good as he is, then they all need to be swept away. Other teams do that but we don't. There seems to be a few sacred cows on this team with O'Shea. 

[HardCoreBlue]

32 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

He became a cheapskate amid these massive profits the team is now reaping... Why? Yeah, we have a veteran team but so what? A  GM should still be aggressive even with a veteran team signing free agent players to push the guys already there. So, we sign a veteran free agent who pushes out a player already at that position. So what? I look at that as an improvement. Not just handing a guy like Thomas a starting spot every year. If Thomas is our best & the coaches actually think the players behind aren't as good as he is, then they all need to be swept away. Other teams do that but we don't. There seems to be a few sacred cows on this team with O'Shea. 

Head Coach MOS has clearly stated his feelings about certain longstanding BB players like JT. It’s no mystery he believes players like JT are owed the right to end their playing career on their own terms based on what they have given back. I really believe MOS wants his legacy as this. He’d rather be remembered fondly by individual players than being remembered as a coach who applied tough love to well respected BB players when needed that may not have not sit well with them at the time. I really admire this commitment and dedication he has to other well respected human beings but also as a selfish hardcore Blue Bomber fan who wants constant success for his team, this also frustrates the hell out of me when it is a detriment to the team. He wants to win, he’s a competitor, but his care for the team, the emblem, the fans may not always be the first thing on his mind when met with tough decisions.

 

Edited 21 hours ago by HardCoreBlue

[Noeller]

Debate how they're spending money all you want, but Walters consistently spends above the salary cap every year. 

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Debate how they're spending money all you want, but Walters consistently spends above the salary cap every year. 

I think the first sentence is the key here. We have over paid a bunch of guys. Kramdi is making elite money, we paid Lawson big money which is ok but we don’t play him nearly enough snaps for that money, Demski is banking massive cash, etc. 

 we have given guys pay days they wouldn’t have gotten any place else. 

[Doublezero]

3 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

 we have given guys pay days they wouldn’t have gotten any place else. 

Could add Collaros to that list. 

[wbbfan]

11 minutes ago, Doublezero said:

Could add Collaros to that list. 

I mean when we originally gave him the money it was a fair investment. But the length of time he’s gotten it and will get it is extremely problematic. 
 It’s a long list tbh. Wj hasn’t been an elite dl for a while. The bonus money we wasted in the off season etc. 

[Fatty Liver]

4 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

He became a cheapskate amid these massive profits the team is now reaping... Why? Yeah, we have a veteran team but so what? A  GM should still be aggressive even with a veteran team signing free agent players to push the guys already there. So, we sign a veteran free agent who pushes out a player already at that position. So what? I look at that as an improvement. Not just handing a guy like Thomas a starting spot every year. If Thomas is our best & the coaches actually think the players behind aren't as good as he is, then they all need to be swept away. Other teams do that but we don't. There seems to be a few sacred cows on this team with O'Shea. 

How quickly you forget, Walters spent every penny he had to retain Lawler, Schoen and Brady in 2024, that's the main reason they lost 6 contributing veterans, including Grant and Jeffcoat.  Losing clubs sign FA's to get to the top, winning clubs re-sign their own players to remain on top.

Edited 17 hours ago by Fatty Liver

[Booch]

15 hours ago, bigg jay said:

I don't disagree that his approach isn't the same and I was never arguing that.  I argued that he wasn't the cheapskate you made him out to be. He still spends money, it's just mostly internally as he seems to prefer re-signing existing guys over attracting new (potentially younger) talent.

He definitely isn't as aggressive in FA as he used to be but the team also wasn't as good so he kinda had to be.  If we maintain the status quo , we"ll be back in that situation.

Spends money sure....but majority of it seems to be spent in wrong area's...and or too influenced by a bias'd HC....And his tactic of allowing so much money for this group....and that group is dumb....basically excludes you from actually improving in an area or at times having adequate depth that can play...and seems to be influencing their scouting as to who they bring in

 

15 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

Bryant in 15

Harris in 16

Demski in 18

Biggie in 18

Jefferson in 19

Trade for Collaros in 19

Walters used to be a player in free agency and was willing to make trades and moves such as the above lead to the 2 cup wins and this era of success. The issue to me is  keeping some guys too long, less success in the draft and not scouting quite as well.

he was savvy...but the problem now is he got some nice pieces, and Osh thinks they just the best of the best and see's no need to replace or demote them...hence our depth in some areas really blows

A team should be continually doing things...be it moves...bringing guys in...whatever to get better...deeper and we dont...When Osh breaks camp who we  (he) decided on is it....unless a guy actually dies or has an injury so bad he cant play....and we seen a lot play that should never have...thats the problem

[Booch]

15 hours ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Head Coach MOS has clearly stated his feelings about certain longstanding BB players like JT. It’s no mystery he believes players like JT are owed the right to end their playing career on their own terms based on what they have given back. I really believe MOS wants his legacy as this. He’d rather be remembered fondly by individual players than being remembered as a coach who applied tough love to well respected BB players when needed that may not have not sit well with them at the time. I really admire this commitment and dedication he has to other well respected human beings but also as a selfish hardcore Blue Bomber fan who wants constant success for his team, this also frustrates the hell out of me when it is a detriment to the team. He wants to win, he’s a competitor, but his care for the team, the emblem, the fans may not always be the first thing on his mind when met with tough decisions.

 

thing is...as rosey as that all sounds...and seems...Player's releagted to no play time...or minimal don't see it that way...or care less about it

Being a players coach also means playing the best player....be that coach for the better player....not just the dead weight...sports is a cruel business and there is no loyalty at a certain point...Osh needs to know that and grow a pair....Worry about how he is viewed as opposed to being succesful is a slippery slope

I'd rather view him...or any coach as a great player's coach, but one that made the tough decisions and was a hard ass when needed, and won 5 straight...or 4 outta 5 rather than a stubborn loyalist who lacked the balls and foresight to make the right calls and flopped on his face repeatedly due to totally preventable reasons....the yeah but crowd will chime in 5 stariaght cups "appearances".....but fail to recognize the 3 utter flops...To the likes of Fajardo..Arbuckle and the Looney/pervo combo....good god thats a legacy to be super proud of

13 hours ago, wbbfan said:

I think the first sentence is the key here. We have over paid a bunch of guys. Kramdi is making elite money, we paid Lawson big money which is ok but we don’t play him nearly enough snaps for that money, Demski is banking massive cash, etc. 

 we have given guys pay days they wouldn’t have gotten any place else. 

thats the thing...we spend up to cp sure...where it's allocated tho....poorly...

 

13 hours ago, Doublezero said:

Could add Collaros to that list. 

yup....and this yr re-signing him without even seeing a good 6 to 8 games?...plain stupid....it's not like he had to be or he would agree elsewhere mid yr....and did he get some of 2026 money moved to this yr....hindering any possible intra season signing that could help us?...possibly

[Tracker]

On 2025-07-05 at 12:31 PM, 17to85 said:

I thought J. Jones was a decently big FA addition... maybe not as a surefire all-star but that one was one I was certain was going to work out. Instead he sits on the one game IR because reasons. 

 

Here's another thought I've been having... anyone notice how the only game no one has questioned the OL for was game 1? And also how the game plan was universally praised after game 1 and game 1 only? Coincidence? I honestly think a ton of this teams offensive problems stem from collaros and his inability to adapt and change the way he wants to play. He's talked about how much he hated being in Sask cause they wanted him to play a system he didn't like... he's been total dog **** 3 Grey cups in a row, his performance in the regular season has slipped bigly the last 2 seasons... he's become a sitting duck in the pocket mostly... I dunno, I just think he's holding the team back right now.

If Collaros' inability to adapt to changing game situations is holding the team back, inevitably the team will lose confidence in him as a leader and key player. That will absolutely impact their committment and effort, and you can see that in any organization. If the coaches are ignoring this, the team's confidence in them will wither, producing the same result. So all this falls into the laps of both Wlters aqnd Miller. Gonna be an interesting season.

[Booch]

11 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

How quickly you forget, Walters spent every penny he had to retain Lawler, Schoen and Brady in 2024, that's the main reason they lost 6 contributing veterans, including Grant and Jeffcoat.  Losing clubs sign FA's to get to the top, winning clubs re-sign their own players to remain on top.

Grant wasnt lost due to money.....we cheaped out and insulted Jeffcoat...and he had no desire to play anywhere else so retired

We could have NOT re-upped KOLO and Thomas ...PaID Kramdi135k which is ridiculous for what he gives...That alone could have been savings for whatever vets we lost...who did we loose for 2024 that hurt us anyway....

We didnt need a Canadian SAM and could have filled it with Griffin ...Cole...any number of imports who would have been prob 50..55k cheaper...

You do have to retain some yur own FA's sure....we kept the wrong ones but to really succeed you also can achieve that by a couple impact free agents too....there were a lot this winter out there...we choose to grab duds...guys off injury...guys who never were anything elsewhere and had minimal if any upside as they were "economical" 

[wbbfan]

11 minutes ago, Booch said:

thing is...as rosey as that all sounds...and seems...Player's releagted to no play time...or minimal don't see it that way...or care less about it

Being a players coach also means playing the best player....be that coach for the better player....not just the dead weight...sports is a cruel business and there is no loyalty at a certain point...Osh needs to know that and grow a pair....Worry about how he is viewed as opposed to being succesful is a slippery slope

I'd rather view him...or any coach as a great player's coach, but one that made the tough decisions and was a hard ass when needed, and won 5 straight...or 4 outta 5 rather than a stubborn loyalist who lacked the balls and foresight to make the right calls and flopped on his face repeatedly due to totally preventable reasons....the yeah but crowd will chime in 5 stariaght cups "appearances".....but fail to recognize the 3 utter flops...To the likes of Fajardo..Arbuckle and the Looney/pervo combo....good god thats a legacy to be super proud of

thats the thing...we spend up to cp sure...where it's allocated tho....poorly...

 

yup....and this yr re-signing him without even seeing a good 6 to 8 games?...plain stupid....it's not like he had to be or he would agree elsewhere mid yr....and did he get some of 2026 money moved to this yr....hindering any possible intra season signing that could help us?...possibly

Yep. For instance, the Raptors have been approximately a top 10 salary team the last 2 years, and a bottom 10 team both of those years. Which despite rebuilding for only part of that, led to their president Masai being fired. Who brought them a championship in 19. 

 The blue jays have been in a similar situation and had all the pressure in the world to fire atkins and shapiro. They've hit a hot streak in the last 10 or so days and taken the pressure off, but pre all star break hot streaks mean little in the MLB. 

It's not enough to say we spent the most money we could when you spend poorly. The job of balancing the SMS is min-maxing. 

[Brandon]

I don't think Walters is el cheapo and has paid big money for players.   

What I have noticed lately is that the overall quality of recruitments over the last 3 - 4 seasons has been a large step down from before.  We've found some good dbs but elsewhere it's been a whole lot of mediocrity.  With O'Shea fixated on starting mediocre guys rather then giving new blood a chance to shine it really feels like this club is squeezing the sponge of the high talent they brought in 5 years ago and eventually once we lose a few more key guys this team really doesn't have the ammo to replace them.   

[ShyGuy]

I figured it was the 'injury prone' designation we put on Janarion Grant that made it so we didn't resign him... which was entirely Buck Pierces fault because you could, you know, not run your 170 lbs soaking wet All-CFL returner up the middle for 2 yards and just have him return kicks like a normal coach.

[17to85]

13 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I don't think Walters is el cheapo and has paid big money for players.   

What I have noticed lately is that the overall quality of recruitments over the last 3 - 4 seasons has been a large step down from before.  We've found some good dbs but elsewhere it's been a whole lot of mediocrity.  With O'Shea fixated on starting mediocre guys rather then giving new blood a chance to shine it really feels like this club is squeezing the sponge of the high talent they brought in 5 years ago and eventually once we lose a few more key guys this team really doesn't have the ammo to replace them.   

I think the quality of recruit is fine, it's just the reluctance to give them spots that's the issue. 

 

Lot of complacency has set in with the coaching staff and they're content to go with the guys who have been there for them for years rather than make difficult choices.

[wbbfan]

10 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I don't think Walters is el cheapo and has paid big money for players.   

What I have noticed lately is that the overall quality of recruitments over the last 3 - 4 seasons has been a large step down from before.  We've found some good dbs but elsewhere it's been a whole lot of mediocrity.  With O'Shea fixated on starting mediocre guys rather then giving new blood a chance to shine it really feels like this club is squeezing the sponge of the high talent they brought in 5 years ago and eventually once we lose a few more key guys this team really doesn't have the ammo to replace them.   

I agree it’s not that he’s stingy or some thing. We have a tendency to over pay our role guys and that hamstrings the budget. 
 I suspect we have the reputation of a none factor for elite free agents though. In the end, it doesn’t matter if you can’t or won’t compete with top free agents. If you don’t do it long enough it hurts your ability to pull in guys when you do want them. 
 

I agree that our new recruits have been an issue. Primarily being that we just don’t play the best guys. But I think this years crop was much better with new blood in the front office. 
 

Combine that with the fact we took our foot off the drafts gas pedal and hunted for mainly kick cover guys, and suddenly we are thin with ni depth. We’ve gotten back to where we need to be in the draft the last two years. But the previous couple will still take time to out run. 

[17to85]

Bottom line, the worst thing this team did was run it all back for the 2023. They should have turned over some more pieces that offseason.

[Booch]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

I think the quality of recruit is fine, it's just the reluctance to give them spots that's the issue. 

 

Lot of complacency has set in with the coaching staff and they're content to go with the guys who have been there for them for years rather than make difficult choices.

Osh won't play new hungry young talent....let alone give them a chance....even if they are clearly better....Thats the issue....I also think he values some things to a greater degree over actual talent/ability/upside...Which can be fine when you trying to re-set your foundation...our's is set and it's they way we do things now....as long as you have a few vets to continue to bring it along you are fine....save for a few outlander type players like that Marshall db who was in Sask...and a few others it's pretty easy to figure out the bad apples...and even then the room will get guys in line regardless...we need to recruit...sign and play the best talent...not just the "character" guys.....

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Bottom line, the worst thing this team did was run it all back for the 2023. They should have turned over some more pieces that offseason.

yup...even in 2022 a few spots could have been already transitioned and have the roster that much further ahead

 

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

I agree it’s not that he’s stingy or some thing. We have a tendency to over pay our role guys and that hamstrings the budget. 
 I suspect we have the reputation of a none factor for elite free agents though. In the end, it doesn’t matter if you can’t or won’t compete with top free agents. If you don’t do it long enough it hurts your ability to pull in guys when you do want them. 
 

I agree that our new recruits have been an issue. Primarily being that we just don’t play the best guys. But I think this years crop was much better with new blood in the front office. 
 

Combine that with the fact we took our foot off the drafts gas pedal and hunted for mainly kick cover guys, and suddenly we are thin with ni depth. We’ve gotten back to where we need to be in the draft the last two years. But the previous couple will still take time to out run. 

we brought in a lot of talent....but we kept a lot that shopuld have been dumped

Our WR recruiting was abysmall....retreads and guys that offered not much...Hall seemed to be the best new guy...and would be a good backup/compliment to Wheatfall  for what he would offer but we cut him and kept a guy from last yr who wasnt good enough...and still isnt...and will never be

Imagine how or defence would look and be like with Ayers and Jonathon Jones....Griffin at Sam....Parker at corner...Allen at safety and have Woodbey as a DA...all working and gelling together, with talent...major athleticism...and hungry youth...with WJ and Vaughters being spelled by Person and Bailey.....with Lawson...Adams....Woods (when healthy) as your main set? Puts Vaughters/WJ....Ayers...Thomas...Korn...Kramdi...T.Jones main set to shame...I'd have Wilson as a rotation guy as ell.....and we can easily do that too....but we choose not to

Edited 1 hour ago by Booch

[17to85]

52 minutes ago, Booch said:

Imagine how or defence would look and be like with Ayers and Jonathon Jones....Griffin at Sam....Parker at corner...Allen at safert and have Woodbey as a DA...all working and gelling together, with ytalent...major athleticism...and hungry youth...with WJ and Vaughters being spelled by Person and Bailey.....with Lawson...Adams....Woods (when healthy) as your main set?

I ******* wish... 

[Pete]

2 hours ago, Booch said:

Osh won't play new hungry young talent....let alone give them a chance....even if they are clearly better....Thats the issue....I also think he values some things to a greater degree over actual talent/ability/upside...Which can be fine when you trying to re-set your foundation...our's is set and it's they way we do things now....as long as you have a few vets to continue to bring it along you are fine....save for a few outlander type players like that Marshall db who was in Sask...and a few others it's pretty easy to figure out the bad apples...and even then the room will get guys in line regardless...we need to recruit...sign and play the best talent...not just the "character" guys.....

yup...even in 2022 a few spots could have been already transitioned and have the roster that much further ahead

 

we brought in a lot of talent....but we kept a lot that shopuld have been dumped

Our WR recruiting was abysmall....retreads and guys that offered not much...Hall seemed to be the best new guy...and would be a good backup/compliment to Wheatfall  for what he would offer but we cut him and kept a guy from last yr who wasnt good enough...and still isnt...and will never be

Imagine how or defence would look and be like with Ayers and Jonathon Jones....Griffin at Sam....Parker at corner...Allen at safety and have Woodbey as a DA...all working and gelling together, with talent...major athleticism...and hungry youth...with WJ and Vaughters being spelled by Person and Bailey.....with Lawson...Adams....Woods (when healthy) as your main set? Puts Vaughters/WJ....Ayers...Thomas...Korn...Kramdi...T.Jones main set to shame...I'd have Wilson as a rotation guy as ell.....and we can easily do that too....but we choose not to

Re Wilson, hes been our main  stopper on the run,  and is reading/anticipating plays

I do like getting Allen in and Parker at corner