Mr Dee Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Waggoner is in reality an American, he only counts as a national due to his dad being born here. He's not some CIS trained kid. He should be better cause if not for some late paperwork, he'd have gone to BC's camp and been cut. Waste of a pick and will cost us a potential stud DL or OL.He'd have gone to the BC Lion's camp...as an ---INT player, and in that scenario, more than likely, would have been cut. He's played at safety and linebacker at Dartmouth College. A report also says there were ---4 teams---who had him in for a workout. Likely why Wpg went high with their pick. SPuDS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Another team must have offered a 1st for Waggoner also otherwise bombers could have just offered a 2nd rounder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Its only his rookie year, but I thought Waggoner would be more noticeable on special teams. A couple of games when the Bombers were getting run over in the first halves and were punting (a lot), I focused on watching Waggoner. He didn't embarrass himself by being roadkill but he didn't stand out more than the other players as faster or having more of a nose for the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Our biggest problem isn't linebacker it's the OL. By picking Waggoner in the Supplemental Draft we don't have a chance to get perhaps the second pick in the CFL draft which will probably be an offensive lineman. Walters over estimated the talent on this team thinking we'd be a playoff team. Now we probably lost out on a first round player who could have helped immediately on the OL like Chungh did this season. We lost a possible starter for a backup linebacker. Just puts our OL another year back in development which is why I didn't like the decision. At first overall or 9th overall, odds are solid we get a legit oline prospect as long as we draft the right guy. Also, Wagoneer has been a monster on the teams from what ive seen, always down field fast and making hits. hes also looked adequate in minimal reps on defense. To say we shoulda done this or that is pointless because we hypothetically could have a ratio breaking player in an uncommon position. Worth a first rounder in my books everytime. Only drawback is there is guarentees. We coulda kept the pick and watching him excell elsewhere while our first overall oliner is off to the NFL or a bust as well.. Cant really make a claim to wasted pick until a few seasons go by. Didn't say he was a wasted pick, SpuDS. far from it. I said that our #1 priority is the OL & now losing the second to fourth pick we probably lost an OL prospect who might have started. I doubt the 9th player selected, especially if he is an OL will be good enough to start. If anything he will be a developmental player. Waggoner is a decent player but our needs are on the OL first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taynted_Fayth Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 just curious what teams they were and if they were thin at linebacker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacklewasher Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Our biggest problem isn't linebacker it's the OL. By picking Waggoner in the Supplemental Draft we don't have a chance to get perhaps the second pick in the CFL draft which will probably be an offensive lineman. Walters over estimated the talent on this team thinking we'd be a playoff team. Now we probably lost out on a first round player who could have helped immediately on the OL like Chungh did this season. We lost a possible starter for a backup linebacker. Just puts our OL another year back in development which is why I didn't like the decision. At first overall or 9th overall, odds are solid we get a legit oline prospect as long as we draft the right guy. Also, Wagoneer has been a monster on the teams from what ive seen, always down field fast and making hits. hes also looked adequate in minimal reps on defense. To say we shoulda done this or that is pointless because we hypothetically could have a ratio breaking player in an uncommon position. Worth a first rounder in my books everytime. Only drawback is there is guarantees. We coulda kept the pick and watching him excel elsewhere while our first overall oliner is off to the NFL or a bust as well.. Cant really make a claim to wasted pick until a few seasons go by. Yup those old 3-ton 4WD Jeeps would really barrel downfield. Had one of those. Great in the snow. Fuel mileage suked though and ugly as ****. Wait. What were we talking about again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 just curious what teams they were and if they were thin at linebacker? BC was probably one of those teams. Maybe Edmonton and Montreal too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookie Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 remember jennings was with the riders first, in their minn camp, , they did not try to sign him at that time, bc gave him a look, but he would not be playing if it was not for all the injuries to bc qbs this year, crazy how it works, but good for him for doing so well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 It also cost us Danny McManus - the last QB WE recruited to the league that had success. That is the issue guys, we keep going after other teams 'hand me downs' because we can't recruit, and that is why we've been so bad for the most part for the past 2 1/2 decades. For this year, a lot of our issues was Drew Willy, as in not having him. We were 3 and 3 when Drew went down. And, we had nothing behind him. We got lucky with Nichols, at least he a passable CFL QB, unlike anyone we can recruit. I was really hoping Marve would be the guy (if his knee held up) but sadly, the fans here in the know (like Mr.Perfect) were 100% right on him. He's not good enough even if his knee was ok. And do you guys notice, when we rush 3 or 4, the opposing QB has enough time to scarf down a TV dinner before looking down field but yet when the opposition rushes 3 or 4 - usually our QB has to scramble around and rush a throw. So I would say both our Oline and our dline need a lot of work still. But having a healthy Drew Willy would solve a lot of problems I think - I like him. We just have to keep him healthy. I agree with what you said but I can't get over why you are so obsessed with this narrative that all good teams must find and develop their own QBs... you think Ham is mad they didn't find Collaros... how about Ottawa with Burris.... think Tor will be giving back the 2012 Grey Cup b/c they won With Ricky Ray.... I agree, it would be nice to recruit and develop a stud QB, but ultimately I don't care where they come from... as long as they can play... Our biggest problem isn't linebacker it's the OL. By picking Waggoner in the Supplemental Draft we don't have a chance to get perhaps the second pick in the CFL draft which will probably be an offensive lineman. Walters over estimated the talent on this team thinking we'd be a playoff team. Now we probably lost out on a first round player who could have helped immediately on the OL like Chungh did this season. We lost a possible starter for a backup linebacker. Just puts our OL another year back in development which is why I didn't like the decision. You're also just assuming back-up LB is his career potential.... if in a year or two he turns into an all-star MLB or safety (where he played in college)... then suddenly the pick isn't so terrible... hes got 6 special team tackles and 0 stats on defense. just sayin You know how the old saying goes... stats always tell the whole story.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taynted_Fayth Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 it was just a throw out to the claim of being a monster on special teams and did well in minimal defensive reps. need more context then just me posting stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dee Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 MOS stated that as far as G Waggoner's progress...he's coming along quite nicely...hit a bit of a wall because of the difference in the length of CFL season, but in terms of his development, "I think he's ahead of schedule", I don't think we paid too high a price for him" "he's a very good player". So, if you back MOS, then it's believable and it's good news, and if you don't trust MOS, then, I guess you say we made a boo-boo. SPuDS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 MOS stated that as far as G Waggoner's progress...he's coming along quite nicely...hit a bit of a wall because of the difference in the length of CFL season, but in terms of his development, "I think he's ahead of schedule", I don't think we paid too high a price for him" "he's a very good player". So, if you back MOS, then it's believable and it's good news, and if you don't trust MOS, then, I guess you say we made a boo-boo. We'll know next June. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPuDS Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 MOS stated that as far as G Waggoner's progress...he's coming along quite nicely...hit a bit of a wall because of the difference in the length of CFL season, but in terms of his development, "I think he's ahead of schedule", I don't think we paid too high a price for him" "he's a very good player". So, if you back MOS, then it's believable and it's good news, and if you don't trust MOS, then, I guess you say we made a boo-boo. And since Oshea is an ex ST guru and defensive stalwart.. id like to think he is good judgement of those particular sets of skills.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPuDS Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 MOS stated that as far as G Waggoner's progress...he's coming along quite nicely...hit a bit of a wall because of the difference in the length of CFL season, but in terms of his development, "I think he's ahead of schedule", I don't think we paid too high a price for him" "he's a very good player". So, if you back MOS, then it's believable and it's good news, and if you don't trust MOS, then, I guess you say we made a boo-boo. We'll know next June. No.. Next june we will have cries of "what a bust!"when he isnt starting yet or "what a bust!" If he starts and stuggles.. Followed by, "cut him some slack" and "picks take a while" from the other group.. A better timeframe would be in july august. Even then, might be too soon to attempt to pass judgement as it does take a player who was groomed in american football to come full term with the CFL rules and changes. Year two is good indicator but still shouldnt be make or break imo.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 MOS stated that as far as G Waggoner's progress...he's coming along quite nicely...hit a bit of a wall because of the difference in the length of CFL season, but in terms of his development, "I think he's ahead of schedule", I don't think we paid too high a price for him" "he's a very good player". So, if you back MOS, then it's believable and it's good news, and if you don't trust MOS, then, I guess you say we made a boo-boo. We'll know next June. No.. Next june we will have cries of "what a bust!"when he isnt starting yet or "what a bust!" If he starts and stuggles.. Followed by, "cut him some slack" and "picks take a while" from the other group.. A better time-frame would be in July August. Even then, might be too soon to attempt to pass judgement as it does take a player who was groomed in American football to come full term with the CFL rules and changes. Year two is good indicator but still shouldn't be make or break imo.. Agreed. Training camp should give Waggoner a chance to begin to push now that he has been in the CFL for a bit. Bass struggled for awhile but has grown into a very good linebacker, so that ought to be a good yardstick to use for Waggoner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigseye Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Please, no more national linebackers, safety and d-line is a better option and the sooner that gets through the thick skulls, the sooner we can get this mess turned around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dee Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Waggoner spent his 5th year at Dartmouth (all 10 games) at safety. Also, his senior year at safety. He was an all-star both years. SPuDS and blitzmore 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigseye Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Nice, thanks D, seems the thick skulls get it. SPuDS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue Posted October 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 It's scary when you see a dead man walking .... what's worse is when you see several of them .... do we need a Beatific Vision to know what to do? Sheesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taynted_Fayth Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 the point on waggoner wasnt that hes a bad pick up, it was trying to assess/gauge walters drafting. and him giving up our first rounder for a player that is in a position were not weak in. people were trying to justify it because he could be a stud, but so far hasnt been, and even if he is, does it really help where we need it iso_55 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 the point on waggoner wasnt that hes a bad pick up, it was trying to assess/gauge walters drafting. and him giving up our first rounder for a player that is in a position were not weak in. people were trying to justify it because he could be a stud, but so far hasnt been, and even if he is, does it really help where we need it That's my point exactly. Despite the discussion here, I never once said I thought Waggoner was a bust. I just said we need help first at other positions, especially the OL so not having a high first round pick may mean we lose out on a quality player that could help immediately like Sukh Chung has. As well as Walters over estimated the team. He felt we'd be a playoff team so he never thought we'd have (perhaps) the second pick in the draft. Would he have made the Waggoner pick had he thought we'd be where we are now in the standing? Well, only he can answer that. I never said I thought Waggoner wouldn't be a good player or was a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPuDS Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 the point on waggoner wasnt that hes a bad pick up, it was trying to assess/gauge walters drafting. and him giving up our first rounder for a player that is in a position were not weak in. people were trying to justify it because he could be a stud, but so far hasnt been, and even if he is, does it really help where we need it Bucknor is starting. Thats weakness. Getting a legit canadian safety back could allieviate that problem. maybe thats what we are angling for.. We know Bucknor was exposed a lot this season. Waggoner and Newman or Morgan i assume are all potential Safety prospects while Jones I think is a Bucknor 2.0 blitzmore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue204 Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 the point on waggoner wasnt that hes a bad pick up, it was trying to assess/gauge walters drafting. and him giving up our first rounder for a player that is in a position were not weak in. people were trying to justify it because he could be a stud, but so far hasnt been, and even if he is, does it really help where we need it Bucknor is starting. Thats weakness. Getting a legit canadian safety back could allieviate that problem. maybe thats what we are angling for.. We know Bucknor was exposed a lot this season. Waggoner and Newman or Morgan i assume are all potential Safety prospects while Jones I think is a Bucknor 2.0 I'd like to see an all Import secondary. None of the guys you listed (though still unproven) give me anything to hope for, except maybe Waggoner. I hope we sign another CND onlinemen this off season (don't know who is available) and hopefully a solid Dlinemen - Steele anyone? I know he wants to play here. We just need to get it done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigg jay Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 the point on waggoner wasnt that hes a bad pick up, it was trying to assess/gauge walters drafting. and him giving up our first rounder for a player that is in a position were not weak in. people were trying to justify it because he could be a stud, but so far hasnt been, and even if he is, does it really help where we need it Bucknor is starting. Thats weakness. Getting a legit canadian safety back could allieviate that problem. maybe thats what we are angling for.. We know Bucknor was exposed a lot this season. Waggoner and Newman or Morgan i assume are all potential Safety prospects while Jones I think is a Bucknor 2.0 I'd like to see an all Import secondary. None of the guys you listed (though still unproven) give me anything to hope for, except maybe Waggoner. I hope we sign another CND onlinemen this off season (don't know who is available) and hopefully a solid Dlinemen - Steele anyone? I know he wants to play here. We just need to get it done! Must not want to play here that bad since he signed an extension that'll keep him in Edmonton through 2017 about a week & a half ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue204 Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 the point on waggoner wasnt that hes a bad pick up, it was trying to assess/gauge walters drafting. and him giving up our first rounder for a player that is in a position were not weak in. people were trying to justify it because he could be a stud, but so far hasnt been, and even if he is, does it really help where we need it Bucknor is starting. Thats weakness. Getting a legit canadian safety back could allieviate that problem. maybe thats what we are angling for.. We know Bucknor was exposed a lot this season. Waggoner and Newman or Morgan i assume are all potential Safety prospects while Jones I think is a Bucknor 2.0 I'd like to see an all Import secondary. None of the guys you listed (though still unproven) give me anything to hope for, except maybe Waggoner. I hope we sign another CND onlinemen this off season (don't know who is available) and hopefully a solid Dlinemen - Steele anyone? I know he wants to play here. We just need to get it done! Must not want to play here that bad since he signed an extension that'll keep him in Edmonton through 2017 about a week & a half ago. Really? Damn I didn't see that. Well I guess he's happy. I know for a fact he tried to get here but at the time Management wasn't having it, and to be fair his play at that time wasn't what it is today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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