Banjo Bowl Early Chat

[Bomberguy]

2023 Grey Cup, two injured star Bomber players decide to “give it a go” with disastrous results IMO. Last year’s Grey Cup, our starting QB (who was already starting with a questionable ankle) injured his hand on a helmet and “gives it a go” (again not so good results). This year it’s Dalton again (not so good results if you consider the 2 point convert try). My question is, is this standard operating procedure in the CFL today despite all of the safety and other regulations built into the players association contract etc.? Also, I can’t recall the injury to Schoen in 2023 that was going to keep him out of that game before the Bombers surprised everyone with his insertion into that game. Could that (perhaps he wasn’t ready to play) or that mentality have contributed in some way to the injury he initially suffered this season? Is it possible the players association or the league would even look into this? I’m prolly just crazy for asking, of course everything was done above board 😉

Edited 5 hours ago by Bomberguy

[Goalie]

How could a guy play on a torn acl tho and not get hurt immediately. I’m not sure he tore it vs Calgary. He might have hurt it but torn? No chance. Wouldn’t be walking. At all. Like even a little and dude was out there running. No way it was actually torn. I believe it is now. But I find it difficult to believe a guy could actually play almost a full game with a torn ACL.  The life of the football player tho. Careers are generally short and end with injury. Dalton had a good couple years here. Probably shouldn’t have been brought back this year but that’s hindsight now. I’m sure he’s probably done as a pro now and that’s unfortunately how she goes. Average football careers are short.  He was great actually then got injured and unfortunately got injured again. People making mountains out of mole hills cuz it’s cool to pile on cuz that’s what the cool kids be doing but really, it happens quite often in pro football. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Goalie

[Bigblue204]

15 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

Oh I'm sorry are you a doctor? Lawyer?

Its the USA, so the laws may be different in Canada but Tyrod Taylor sued the Chargers medical staff and Chris Maragos won a suit in 2023, where he sued the Eagles medical staff for failing to provide proper medical care for a knee injury that ultimately ended his career. Greg Brooks is suing LSU over medical negligence. 

Are you?

Give an example from Russia next. Maybe that will be relevant. 

[rebusrankin]

Just now, Bigblue204 said:

Are you?

Give an example from Russia next. Maybe that will be relevant. 

You know what I should not have said he should sue. I should have said it seems like a questionable decision by the coaching and medical staff.

[Goalie]

1 minute ago, rebusrankin said:

You know what I should not have said he should sue. I should have said it seems like a questionable decision by the coaching and medical staff.

Thing is. Dalton likely had a pretty big say. I mean I think the fake news got people here cuz no way dude played almost a full game on a torn acl. Plus he gets his 175k. It’s football. Careers are short. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Goalie

[wbbfan]

5 minutes ago, Goalie said:

How could a guy play on a torn acl tho and not get hurt immediately. I’m not sure he tore it vs Calgary. He might have hurt it but torn? No chance. Wouldn’t be walking. At all. Like even a little and dude was out there running. No way it was actually torn. I believe it is now. But I find it difficult to believe a guy could actually play almost a full game with a torn ACL.  The life of the football player tho. Careers are generally short and end with injury. Dalton had a good couple years here. Probably shouldn’t have been brought back this year but that’s hindsight now. I’m sure he’s probably done as a pro now and that’s unfortunately how she goes. Average football careers are short. 

I imagine he partially re-tore it, then blew it out. The fact that he tried to finish is still crazy, though. 

[Booch]

8 hours ago, Atomic said:

Yeah that's the thing... of course Schoen wanted to play, or at least he was willing to play. That's how players are wired. They need to be protected from themselves. The training staff and coaching staff both wear this because they have the responsibility to keep guys off the field if they aren't ready.

I don't expect any accountability from the team because no one in the media challenges them. I watched the O'Shea presser from today and the first media guy to ask questions and the lady after him... yikes..... they both seem like they don't care or don't understand what they are seeing. I was waiting for someone to ask "why the hell was he even on the field?" but it never happened.

Anytime you tear an acl...u need surgery...especially a just recently completed one you re-tore

You can't play thru it...well you can if you wanna delay the actual surgery and be braced up and be a shell of yourself...and risk more damage

Grossly mishandled and who knows if influenced to "try" or how it went down but was stupid and incompetent on many levels...in the end Osh made the decision to play him...an handcuff the roster with basically a gimp again...common theme here...and effectively screw him until 2027...if lucky....plain and simple

If this the leadership we have...we need new leaders

2 hours ago, Captain Blue said:

There are absolutely cases where health decisions from patients or doctors end up being the wrong decision or take a wrong turn. 

We don't have nearly enough info to be able to make a call on that in this situation. 

 

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

This kind of thing can and does happen pretty much anywhere. Dalton Schoen just happens to be in the spotlight.  

 

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

The guy tore a ligament in the same knee he had injured previously (after coming back relatively quickly all things considered....) and they let him go on the field with that ligament torn again.... how's that not an issue with what the medical staff and coaches are doing?

I mean yeah rah rah Bombers, but this is a bad look and it's really hard to just hand wave away.

Doesn't happen anywhere...only where incompetence reigns

Dude retore his acl...the recently repaired one from a hamstring graph 

I said as soon as he appeared in practice with a brace was red flag and he reinjured it...and if played would likely be done for yr sooner than later...but nobody really listened

We screwed up big-time...and likely screwed his career

[Tracker]

13 hours ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

I don't see another thread so I will put this here: Ottawa is terrible 

Gotta give props to Crum, though for doing his best to carry a sad team.

[Booch]

1 hour ago, Bomberguy said:

2023 Grey Cup, two injured star Bomber players decide to “give it a go” with disastrous results IMO. Last year’s Grey Cup, our starting QB (who was already starting with a questionable ankle) injured his hand on a helmet and “gives it a go” (again not so good results). This year it’s Dalton again (not so good results if you consider the 2 point convert try). My question is, is this standard operating procedure in the CFL today despite all of the safety and other regulations built into the players association contract etc.? Also, I can’t recall the injury to Schoen in 2023 that was going to keep him out of that game before the Bombers surprised everyone with his insertion into that game. Could that (perhaps he wasn’t ready to play) or that mentality have contributed in some way to the injury he initially suffered this season? Is it possible the players association or the league would even look into this? I’m prolly just crazy for asking, of course everything was done above board 😉

2023...4 guys....and schoen that yr was shocked...said so...and said was totally unprepared...

This isnt standard procedure...just here with our clown leading the circus

If another team did this...we'd be mocking them to all oblivion

19 minutes ago, Goalie said:

How could a guy play on a torn acl tho and not get hurt immediately. I’m not sure he tore it vs Calgary. He might have hurt it but torn? No chance. Wouldn’t be walking. At all. Like even a little and dude was out there running. No way it was actually torn. I believe it is now. But I find it difficult to believe a guy could actually play almost a full game with a torn ACL.  The life of the football player tho. Careers are generally short and end with injury. Dalton had a good couple years here. Probably shouldn’t have been brought back this year but that’s hindsight now. I’m sure he’s probably done as a pro now and that’s unfortunately how she goes. Average football careers are short.  He was great actually then got injured and unfortunately got injured again. People making mountains out of mole hills cuz it’s cool to pile on cuz that’s what the cool kids be doing but really, it happens quite often in pro football. 

You can tear it and walk...and if braced "technically " play...but not well and the instability will cause cartilage tears...Likely a crescent tear if u don't already have one...but you just putting player at extreme risk...and for what...like 50 percent of his ability? Shamefull all around...poor guy

 

16 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Thing is. Dalton likely had a pretty big say. I mean I think the fake news got people here cuz no way dude played almost a full game on a torn acl. Plus he gets his 175k. It’s football. Careers are short. 

Wasn't fake news...soon as he needed a brace...was obvious....and i talked to a few guys and yeah he tore it again

[Tracker]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

2023...4 guys....and schoen that yr was shocked...said so...and said was totally unprepared...

This isnt standard procedure...just here with our clown leading the circus

If another team did this...we'd be mocking them to all oblivion

You can tear it and walk...and if braced "technically " play...but not well and the instability will cause cartilage tears...Likely a crescent tear if u don't already have one...but you just putting player at extreme risk...and for what...like 50 percent of his ability? Shamefull all around...poor guy

 

Wasn't fake news...soon as he needed a brace...was obvious....and i talked to a few guys and yeah he tore it again

And in 20 years, he is going to be in chronic pain from arthritis.

[Captain Blue]

49 minutes ago, Booch said:

Grossly mishandled and who knows if influenced to "try" or how it went down but was stupid and incompetent on many levels...in the end Osh made the decision to play him...an handcuff the roster with basically a gimp again...common theme here...and effectively screw him until 2027...if lucky....plain and simple

If this the leadership we have...we need new leaders

Doesn't happen anywhere...only where incompetence reigns

Dude retore his acl...the recently repaired one from a hamstring graph 

I said as soon as he appeared in practice with a brace was red flag and he reinjured it...and if played would likely be done for yr sooner than later...but nobody really listened

We screwed up big-time...and likely screwed his career

Listen I get that you have your schtick and want to stick with it at all costs but what you are saying is consistently misleading. Players coming off a major injury and then having another major injury - either the same or different one - is unfortunately a somewhat frequent occurrence across all sports. 

You cannot possibly know what happened in this scenario. Perhaps you are right and he is the result of a terrible doctor decision. Or perhaps the medical team made the best decision possible and what happened was a result of bad luck. Perhaps Walters or Osh or Schoen or pick-your-villain went rogue and overruled them all.

No one here has all the info needed. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Captain Blue

[ShyGuy]

1 hour ago, Captain Blue said:

Listen I get that you have your schtick and want to stick with it at all costs but what you are saying is consistently misleading. Players coming off a major injury and then having another major injury - either the same or different one - is unfortunately a somewhat frequent occurrence across all sports. 

You cannot possibly know what happened in this scenario. Perhaps you are right and he is the result of a terrible doctor decision. Or perhaps the medical team made the best decision possible and what happened was a result of bad luck. Perhaps Walters or Osh or Schoen or pick-your-villain went rogue and overruled them all.

No one here has all the info needed. 

What more information do you need?

He tore his ACL Last year. He came back, really ahead of schedule from most recommendations for ACL tears, less than 12 months.

He plays a couple of games, has a non-contact injury on the same knee and is put on the 6 game.

He appears again, wearing a brace, makes it through a couple weeks of practice, and the vast majority of a game and now is out for the season, and likely until labour day next year best case.

O'Shea has come out and was like, yeah he tore it again in Calgary. The ACL provides stability in the knee joint but they try to augment what he has left with a huge ass brace.

The medical staff tells him he probably can't do any additional damage. Schoen says he accepts the risks. O'Shea feels that a gimpy Schoen is the best option in the WR Corps.

Schoen is a professional athlete, those cats are wired differently. Someone needs to be the adult in the room and protect him from himself. Whether it's the medical staff saying that this is dumb AF and refusing to clear him, O'Shea saying I know you feel you are ready to go but you need to take care of yourself, or Walters overruling them all and pulling the plug.

Everyone likes to tout FIFO as some kind of positive mantra... but this is the negative side of it. Players putting their own health at risk and ultimately hurting the team long and short term. There have been WAY too many instances of players playing through significant injury and snookering the team.

[Booch]

Thing is...he tore it again in cgy...Likely tore away where the graft was attached to the bone...have hard time thinking a hamstring graft would have tore so early into existence with non-contact....but possibly...they said and I heard torn nonetheless so either from bone or in half

6 games ir didn't fix anything...maybe swelling..that's it

LD game...he made it worse to point even with a brace now he's shot...plain and simple...lotsa fingers to point in lotsa directions...fact of matter...should never been back on field after cgy injury...should have been in surgery...he won't be back next yr...if they smart...jury is out on the smart

Its no different than if we braced up Bonds....we didnt because we had other DB candidates...we didnt at WR...so....well we all know what happened 

[Mark H.]

2 hours ago, Booch said:

Doesn't happen anywhere...only where incompetence reigns

And medical incompetence happens anywhere, to anyone. I am not saying there is no negligence here, I think it's a sucky situation anyway you look at it. I'm just saying medical mistakes can and do happen.

[wbbfan]

4 hours ago, Mark H. said:

This kind of thing can and does happen pretty much anywhere. Dalton Schoen just happens to be in the spotlight.  

used to happen a lot. guys playing repeatedly through torn and re torn tendons and similar injuries isn’t the norm in football any more. not for maybe 10 years down south, not up here since jones riders tore all the ligaments and tendons in tc. 

40 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

And medical incompetence happens anywhere, to anyone. I am not saying there is no negligence here, I think it's a sucky situation anyway you look at it. I'm just saying medical mistakes can and do happen.

i doubt if investigated it will turn out to be at the hands of our medical team. they are really good. i bet they made a recommendation, and the bombers + schoen decided to play ama. maybe refused an mri.