Lots going on. As mentioned earlier, The Stove has re-signed in BC...also:
 

 and 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 20232 yr by Noeller

7 minutes ago, JCon said:

The idea that it's always the victim's fault to change is disgusting.

Change the way you dress because this man can't control himself. Change the way you speak because you're upsetting this man. Change your job because this player is trash and can't control himself. 

It's not a surprise that the usual chauvinists are gaslighting. 

Talk about gaslighting. No one is saying she should change or that it's her fault. 

26 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Talk about gaslighting. No one is saying she should change or that it's her fault. 

Review the posts on the “he said - she said” theories and how the complainant was “weird”. 

1 hour ago, JCon said:

Why do we always expect the victim to leave? 

Disgusting culture surrounding victims.  This is a good step in the right direction. Even if Kelly ends up being innocent. In such case though I’ll find it in superman first. 
 

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

Why does anyone expect the victim to want to stay?

Contrarian $&@! Posting at it’s peak. 
 

1 hour ago, HardCoreBlue said:

In most cases, it's not about expecting the victims to want to stay,  it's about the complex reasons of why and how victims find it hard to leave abusive/toxic environments.

yep. Trauma bonding, hard to get dream jobs people work their lives for, victim entrapment so many reasons. Weinstein to McMahon many examples with in depth explanations and that doesn’t even scratch the surface. 

6 hours ago, bluto said:

Well I do have questions about an employee who was so terribly maltreated that they apply to come back for an entire year more of the alleged S abuse.

 

so just to be clear... your stance on this specific part of the scenario is.... if someone was harassed at work, that person should be to the one to leave and give up on their dreams... with no onus on the organization to create a harassment-free work place.... if that is not what you believe, it doesn't show in your posts.    

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

Why does anyone expect the victim to want to stay?

 

45 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Talk about gaslighting. No one is saying she should change or that it's her fault. 

Facepalm.gif even from the community ODD/CPD 

2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

I think a lot of it has to do with 2 things. 1- sign of the times. SA/SH is being taken Uber seriously which is appropriate IMO by today's business world(well the good ones anyway) and 2-violence, while being limited, is still very much a part of today's game. Harrassment is not at all part of the sport especially with staff that doesn't play. 

It's embarrassing at this point. 

I don't know of anyone who thinks that a player jumping into the stands and punching a fan in the face is "part of the game".     Yet somehow that is a lesser punishment?

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, bearpants said:

so just to be clear... your stance on this specific part of the scenario is.... if someone was harassed at work, that person should be to the one to leave and give up on their dreams... with no onus on the organization to create a harassment-free work place.... if that is not what you believe, it doesn't show in your posts.    

Her contract expired, after that the Argos can hire whoever they choose and are under no obligation to provide any explanation for their actions.  That's often the stark reality for workers in non-union environments, there is very little job security.

16 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I don't know of anyone who thinks that a player jumping into the stands and punching a fan in the face is "part of the game".     

Well....it's not a part of the game any more...at least...

 

9 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

Her contract expired, after that the Argos can hire whoever they choose and are under no obligation to provide any explanation for their actions.  That's often the stark reality for workers in non-union environments, there is very little job security.

and your boss may even make you come into the office more than three days a week - the horror!!  

Edited May 8, 20241 yr by kelownabomberfan

4 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

Her contract expired, after that the Argos can hire whoever they choose and are under no obligation to provide any explanation for their actions.  That's often the stark reality for workers in non-union environments, there is very little job security.

This is completely unrelated to the point I was making... Bluto is very confused why she would want to continue working for the Argos despite being harassed at work... suggesting the onus is on the employee to leave rather than the organization to rectify the issue

48 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I don't know of anyone who thinks that a player jumping into the stands and punching a fan in the face is "part of the game".     Yet somehow that is a lesser punishment?

 

That's fair. 

7 minutes ago, bearpants said:

This is completely unrelated to the point I was making... Bluto is very confused why she would want to continue working for the Argos despite being harassed at work... suggesting the onus is on the employee to leave rather than the organization to rectify the issue

That's a False Equivalence. Asking why anyone would stay where they are being harassed isn't equal to suggesting that the employee change rather than the organization rectify the issue. Nor is it suggesting that the harassment didn't take place for that matter.

Why stay? Is a $25K a year job is their dream job? Do they think they can move ahead in that job? Is it the only job they could get? None of that's likely. So, what's in it for them to want to stay? 

Should the organization do something to rectify the situation? Absolutely. You're gonna hate it, but not renewing her contract is what they chose to do. If they renewed the contract knowing about the harassment, they'd be saying the harassment is OK, which it obviously isn't. I'm sure they thought that was the end of it. They should have reported it to the league as soon as it was reported to management. They should have sent Kelly for sensitivity training right away and told him he wouldn't get a new contract until he completed it. I'm sure the league would have backed that position & not let Kelly sign with anyone until the training was complete. 

I think she has a good case for harassment, but not a case for wrongful dismissal because she wasn't dismissed, her contract ran out and a new one wasn't offered. That's part of working on a contract basis instead of being a full employee. If the company doesn't want you anymore for any reason or no reason at all, they don't have to offer you a new contract. If she quit because of the harassment, then she would have a case for constructive dismissal, but that's not what happened nor is it what she is complaining about. She's complaining that she wasn't offered a new contract, which pretty much negates the constructive dismissal argument. 

ITT no employment lawyers.

31 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Why stay? Is a $25K a year job is their dream job? Do they think they can move ahead in that job? Is it the only job they could get? None of that's likely. So, what's in it for them to want to stay? 

Should the organization do something to rectify the situation? Absolutely. You're gonna hate it, but not renewing her contract is what they chose to do. If they renewed the contract knowing about the harassment, they'd be saying the harassment is OK, which it obviously isn't. I'm sure they thought that was the end of it. They should have reported it to the league as soon as it was reported to management. They should have sent Kelly for sensitivity training right away and told him he wouldn't get a new contract until he completed it. I'm sure the league would have backed that position & not let Kelly sign with anyone until the training was complete. 

I think she has a good case for harassment, but not a case for wrongful dismissal because she wasn't dismissed, her contract ran out and a new one wasn't offered. That's part of working on a contract basis instead of being a full employee. If the company doesn't want you anymore for any reason or no reason at all, they don't have to offer you a new contract. If she quit because of the harassment, then she would have a case for constructive dismissal, but that's not what happened nor is it what she is complaining about. She's complaining that she wasn't offered a new contract, which pretty much negates the constructive dismissal argument. 

(First bolded part)25k isn't a lot....which should speak to how badly she wants to work in that industry. Why would she want to stay though? The questions you should be asking are, what opportunities can come to her if she stays in the industry? What opportunities can come to her if she stays with that organization? How many opportunities does she have to do that job in a profession where there are less than 50 (I'm not sure what the UFL is like for that specific job so I gave them the benefit of doubt) pro football teams in NA? How might another year of experience help her career? I would suggest that her wanting to stay despite the low pay and harassment shows this may very well be a dream job for her. 

For the record, one of my dream jobs pays less than 35k a year. I'm no longer working in it for various reasons, but if I could i absolutely would. Suggesting $$ is one of the only factors is short sighted.

(Second bolded part) yes, so they did the right thing and got rid of the victim. That will really show the victim that they take harassment seriously! And I bet the accused would really learn a hard lesson. That's just an absolutely ridiculous claim to make. Lol. 

Edited May 8, 20241 yr by Bigblue204

4 hours ago, 17to85 said:

You've never been in a job where you kept working there despite abuse from people above you? You've never known someone in the same situation? Sometimes people don't want to be driven from a job they like because of another person and they try and stick it out. 

Every statement from Bluto is more douchy than the last.  I pray this guy doesn't have adaughter.

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

I think she has a good case for harassment, 

Obviously, and you agree with the league which confirmed there was sexual harassment. 

Edited May 9, 20241 yr by Rod Black

22 hours ago, Pete said:

He hasn't been charged with a criminal offense so likely not an issue. Wonder if Argos will try to trade next years first round pick for Masoli or perhaps Ford. 

Criminal charges are not necessary for deportation. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

 

 

Feels like the Ticats are cursed at this point. But you know what they say. Sometimes you make your own luck

15 hours ago, Rod Black said:

Obviously, and you agree with the league which confirmed there was sexual harassment. 

I also said it when the story first broke months ago. 

so....after a lengthy independant investigation....subsequant suspension handed down, and now Pinball saying that the Team does not deny/dispute the allegations in his presser....safe to say Kelly was lying now...the trainer was not, and justified, and as per Pinballs own comments the team itself has lots of work to do, and needs to look within itself to make sure this never occurs again.....so safe to say the he says...she says narrative was debunked?....and its actually 100 percent accurate now

5 minutes ago, Booch said:

so....after a lengthy independant investigation....subsequant suspension handed down, and now Pinball saying that the Team does not deny/dispute the allegations in his presser....safe to say Kelly was lying now...the trainer was not, and justified, and as per Pinballs own comments the team itself has lots of work to do, and needs to look within itself to make sure this never occurs again.....so safe to say the he says...she says narrative was debunked?....and its actually 100 percent accurate now

Of course, didn't you see. The team didn't bring back the victim because they wanted her to know that they take harassment seriously!

19 hours ago, WBBFanWest said:

Every statement from Bluto is more douchy than the last.  I pray this guy doesn't have adaughter.

Cut him some slack, he just lost his franchise MOP QB. He's an Argo fanatic and is clearly in denial. He is extending way too much benefit of the doubt to a player known to have big behavioral problems, but he is also viewing it through the lens of a fan. He will come around once the shock and awe wears off and he realizes this was a fair and just punishment. The CFL could not let it's reigning MOP act like a total creep and embarrass the league with a weak response to it.

Edited May 9, 20241 yr by GCn20

6 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Cut him some slack, he just lost his franchise MOP QB. He's an Argo fanatic and is clearly in denial. He is extending way too much benefit of the doubt to a player known to have big behavioral problems, but he is also viewing it through the lens of a fan. He will come around once the shock and awe wears off and he realizes this was a fair and just punishment. The CFL could not let it's reigning MOP act like a total creep and embarrass the league with a weak response to it.

Nah, he's been trying to turn this on the woman from day one.  Has nothing to with Kelly being suspended so I'm not inclined to cut him some slack.  Had he taken more of a wait and see attitude, I might buy the "in shock" excuse but he's been this way since the allegations first came out.

23 minutes ago, Booch said:

so....after a lengthy independant investigation....subsequant suspension handed down, and now Pinball saying that the Team does not deny/dispute the allegations in his presser....safe to say Kelly was lying now...the trainer was not, and justified, and as per Pinballs own comments the team itself has lots of work to do, and needs to look within itself to make sure this never occurs again.....so safe to say the he says...she says narrative was debunked?....and its actually 100 percent accurate now

That’s soo odd right after the team and Kelly denied any wrong doing. You know that’s why they marched good ole pinball out to deliver the message. 
 

This only pushes home that the league needs to come down swiftly and harshly on the Argo’s brass. 

12 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Cut him some slack, he just lost his franchise MOP QB. He's an Argo fanatic and is clearly in denial. He is extending way too much benefit of the doubt to a player known to have big behavioral problems, but he is also viewing it through the lens of a fan. He will come around once the shock and awe wears off and he realizes this was a fair and just punishment. The CFL could not let it's reigning MOP act like a total creep and embarrass the league with a weak response to it.

 

3 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Nah, he's been trying to turn this on the woman from day one.  Has nothing to with Kelly being suspended so I'm not inclined to cut him some slack.  Had he taken more of a wait and see attitude, I might buy the "in shock" excuse but he's been this way since the allegations first came out.

I see validity in both your points. Thinking back to what it was to be a bomber fan in the past two dark ages this would be crushing. Even with that I and many others defended Harris during his ped positive test not long ago. (His claim was very valid but we never did hear about his independent testing of the allegedly tainted supplement) 

 with that said, the whole victim blaming culture is such a big toxic issue in society right now, the regressive attitudes are much worse on this. Not to mention the victim suffered directly, Harris either way didn’t victimize people. 
 Some of the defences and devils advocate positions has come off really gross with Kelly. Guilt or not, just some real ick factor stuff. 
 

I hope all this in the end helps some of those people to see the importance of protecting alleged victims and treating them appropriately. Some times good people get wrapped up on the wrong side of disputes. It’s certainly happened to me in the past. 
 I still think bluto is good people and a good poster.