some interesting stuff here about an American TV deal incoming.......

 

 

31 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Heath alone made the Bombers the winners of that trade. He was fantastic for his entire tenure with the Bombers and 2017 was the best season of his career by far. Shame he chose to chase money instead of stability because he'd have probably have two rings now.

Trying to dismiss his career accomplishments comes across as a bit petty.

Wish we would have done more with the 1st overall, but who we drafted does not diminish the worth of that pick. I am in disbelief that anyone would not see the intrinsic value of having the 1st overall pick in any draft year. Draft picks can be busts, but I still place a ton of value on having a top 3 CFL draft pick. Who we got with that pick is irrelevant.  It doesn't make the trade better for Toronto, it just means we squandered a golden opportunity. Just having the opportunity of dibs on all draft eligible players is very valuable. 

For all we know, if Toronto retains that pick maybe they take Cam Judge, or Geoff Gray....

Edited March 20, 20232 yr by GCn20

Nobody tried to diminish TJ Heath as a player. And nobody tried to downplay the value of what a #1 is worth.

I don't know how what I said could be taken that way.

I only registered my surprise that anyone would've called that trade a kings ransom that paved the way to a dynasty.

Opinions may vary of course, but I think that's a pretty out-there take.

Edited March 20, 20232 yr by bluto

9 minutes ago, bluto said:

Nobody tried to diminish TJ Heath as a player. And nobody tried to downplay the value of what a #1 is worth.

I don't know how what I said could be taken that way.

I only registered my surprise that anyone would've called that trade a kings ransom that paved the way to a dynasty.

Opinions may vary of course, but I think that's a pretty out-there take.

For a broken Willy? Huge return which did provide some key steps along the way unto building what the team eventually became.

Just now, GCn20 said:

Wish we would have done more with the 1st overall, but who we drafted does not diminish the worth of that pick.

Hindsight is 20/20. I don't think anyone could've or would've predicted Ekakitie's career to go the way it did. 

Walters and co. made the right decision at the time; it just didn't work out at all.

that draft is probably the weakest in recent memory. They knew it going in and did the best they could... it just didn't work out. Ekakatie was a bust, to be sure, but there wasn't a lot to be had in that draft, from what I remember. 

1 minute ago, Noeller said:

that draft is probably the weakest in recent memory. They knew it going in and did the best they could... it just didn't work out. Ekakatie was a bust, to be sure, but there wasn't a lot to be had in that draft, from what I remember. 

FWIW, I'd have taken Cam Judge first overall (with the gift of hindsight, to be clear).

woof what a garbage draft year: 

https://www.cfl.ca/draft-tracker/2017/

18 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

FWIW, I'd have taken Cam Judge first overall (with the gift of hindsight, to be clear).

I'm taking Gray over Judge if the draft was re-done with the benefit of hindsight.  Not a knock on Judge but he's been on 3 teams in 5 seasons so Gray would be the better long-term pick for the Bombers (imo).

17 minutes ago, Noeller said:

woof what a garbage draft year: 

https://www.cfl.ca/draft-tracker/2017/

To be fair, there are a number of top guys from that draft class who never came north - Justin Senior, Eli Ankou & Antony Auclair were all ranked top 10 but have yet to play a snap in the CFL.  

1 hour ago, bigg jay said:

I'm taking Gray over Judge if the draft was re-done with the benefit of hindsight.  Not a knock on Judge but he's been on 3 teams in 5 seasons so Gray would be the better long-term pick for the Bombers (imo).

Outside of moving teams a couple times....I'd take Judge. He's had more impact imo.

2 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

FWIW, I'd have taken Cam Judge first overall (with the gift of hindsight, to be clear).

That’s what I would’ve done back then. However the two other guys I liked almost as much ended up being turrible. Way she goes. 

On 2023-03-19 at 1:53 PM, Noeller said:

Willy never had a chance... Never had an OL until it was too late. If Willy had had a decent OL to start he could have been at least Dane Evans. 

Evans can't carry Willy's bag of footballs if you compare the two. Willy's OL here was light years worse than anyone else's. He never publicly blew up on any of his teammates like Evans did. He took his lumps & suffered silently while we thrashed him as a shitty qb. Evans would have been in a straightjacket in a padded cell had he played behind that cruddy **** of an offensive line while being criticized to the bone by us, the fans & media. Willy never had a chance to have success here. The damage was done once that ankle & foot injury happened & Willy tried to resurrect his career in Toronto a year later. 

Edited March 20, 20232 yr by SpeedFlex27

6 hours ago, Noeller said:

woof what a garbage draft year: 

https://www.cfl.ca/draft-tracker/2017/

What was that DL we drafted about a decade ago from some small college in the Eastern or Southeastern US "whose motor never stopped" but wasn't much of a player because he was overrated? His motor may never have stopped but it got weaker as training camp went along. Then the injuries started & he never did muchafter that. I think he ended up being released by the Bombers mid season & picked up by the Alouettes who released him later as well, I believe before he was done & out of the CFL in less than 2 seasons. I remember you guys laughing at me about him because I didn't think much of him.. Ah, good times. Good times. 

Edited March 21, 20232 yr by SpeedFlex27

2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

Outside of moving teams a couple times....I'd take Judge. He's had more impact imo.

But as a draft pick, how much value is he when he's having that impact for another team?

Sask only got two full seasons out of him and his best play has been for Calgary and Toronto. Gray is also just starting to come into his own so his true value has yet to be determined.

Edited March 20, 20232 yr by bigg jay

4 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Evans can't carry Willy's bag of footballs if you compare the two. Willy's OL here was light years worse than anyone else's. He never publicly blew up on any of his teammates like Evans did. He took his lumps & suffered silently while we thrashed him as a shitty qb. Evans would have been in a straitjacket in a padded cell had he played behind that cruddy **** of an offensive line while being criticized to the bone by us, the fans & media. Willy never had a chance to have success here. The damage was done once that ankle & foot injury happened & Willy tried to resurrect his career in Toronto a year later. 

A lot of people forget about that heroic 4th q come back wins. 
 Sadly lots of qbs get ruined that way.  

The Dog Days of the CFL off season. Still a little more than 2 months to training camp. 

17 hours ago, bluto said:

Nobody tried to diminish TJ Heath as a player. And nobody tried to downplay the value of what a #1 is worth.

I don't know how what I said could be taken that way.

I only registered my surprise that anyone would've called that trade a kings ransom that paved the way to a dynasty.

Opinions may vary of course, but I think that's a pretty out-there take.

It was certainly a king's ransom at the time, but no, it didn't amount to much long term.

 

30 minutes ago, Jesse said:

It was certainly a king's ransom at the time, but no, it didn't amount to much long term.

 

It gave us an all star DB that was one of the best defensive players in the league that year. Petey gave us a few really good years as backup NAT receiver depth and was great on teams, Ekakitie gave us the luxury of taking a futures pick with Gray. These were all important to our climb up the hill.

17 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Hindsight is 20/20. I don't think anyone could've or would've predicted Ekakitie's career to go the way it did. 

Walters and co. made the right decision at the time; it just didn't work out at all.

For sure. Not placing blame on Walters for that one. There was not a lot to choose from.

14 hours ago, bigg jay said:

But as a draft pick, how much value is he when he's having that impact for another team?

Sask only got two full seasons out of him and his best play has been for Calgary and Toronto. Gray is also just starting to come into his own so his true value has yet to be determined.

We're talking hypotheticals here. There's no certainty that if drafted by the bombers he would be gone by now.

48 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

We're talking hypotheticals here. There's no certainty that if drafted by the bombers he would be gone by now.

Yes, when measuring the trade one should look solely at the value of the pick and the advantage it gives. The long term value of it is not really in any team's control. Blue chippers can bust, and players can move on after their first contract. That is why keeping and compiling as many as these top draft picks as possible is how winning teams are created. 

With the benefit of hindsight, Cam Judge followed by Geoff Gray are probably the two best picks to make. Cam is who I probably would have chosen. Hard to say if he would have stuck around or left. We have a few players who moved around before coming to the Bombers and committing to us long term. Also, and not to be diminished, is the fact that at the time we chose Gray he was an NFL player. We were lucky he came back to the CFL. OL from Canada have a fairly good rate of hanging around the NFL.

Edited March 21, 20232 yr by GCn20

6 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Yes, when measuring the trade one should look solely at the value of the pick and the advantage it gives. The long term value of it is not really in any team's control. Blue chippers can bust, and players can move on after their first contract. That is why keeping and compiling as many as these top draft picks as possible is how winning teams are created. 

With the benefit of hindsight, Cam Judge followed by Geoff Gray are probably the two best picks to make. Cam is who I probably would have chosen. Hard to say if he would have stuck around or left. We have a few players who moved around before coming to the Bombers and committing to us long term. Also, and not to be diminished, is the fact that at the time we chose Gray he was an NFL player. We were lucky he came back to the CFL. OL from Canada have a fairly good rate of hanging around the NFL.

Judge was in camp with the Texans a week after being drafted so he was just as much of a risk as Gray.  Gray being a local gave the Bombers an advantage for retaining him long-term.

Interesting note from this article is that Sask was actively trying to trade down from the #2 pick but had no takers, so they went with Judge.  I wonder if his being a late addition to the draft with clear NFL aspirations had an affect on how teams felt about him?  With hindsight, I'd guess every team would have been much more willing to take that deal given how few decent players came out of that draft!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/cfl-draft-riders-1.4104009

11 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Judge was in camp with the Texans a week after being drafted so he was just as much of a risk as Gray.  Gray being a local gave the Bombers an advantage for retaining him long-term.

Interesting note from this article is that Sask was actively trying to trade down from the #2 pick but had no takers, so they went with Judge.  I wonder if his being a late addition to the draft with clear NFL aspirations had an affect on how teams felt about him?  With hindsight, I'd guess every team would have been much more willing to take that deal given how few decent players came out of that draft!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/cfl-draft-riders-1.4104009

Every draft sees a boat load of freshly drafted CFLers working out for NFL teams. The difference between Judge and Gray is that at the time of the draft Gray had already signed in the NFL. Judge had a workout with an NFL team. Big difference.

18 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

What was that DL we drafted about a decade ago from some small college in the Eastern or Southeastern US "whose motor never stopped" but wasn't much of a player because he was overrated? His motor may never have stopped but it got weaker as training camp went along. Then the injuries started & he never did muchafter that. I think he ended up being released by the Bombers mid season & picked up by the Alouettes who released him later as well, I believe before he was done & out of the CFL in less than 2 seasons. I remember you guys laughing at me about him because I didn't think much of him.. Ah, good times. Good times. 

That was Faith Ekakite I believe, and no-one was laughing at you because you didn't think much of him... the mockery came from how absolutely personal you seemed to take his failures as a player. 

18 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Evans can't carry Willy's bag of footballs if you compare the two. Willy's OL here was light years worse than anyone else's. He never publicly blew up on any of his teammates like Evans did. He took his lumps & suffered silently while we thrashed him as a shitty qb. Evans would have been in a straitjacket in a padded cell had he played behind that cruddy **** of an offensive line while being criticized to the bone by us, the fans & media. Willy never had a chance to have success here. The damage was done once that ankle & foot injury happened & Willy tried to resurrect his career in Toronto a year later. 

Show us on the doll where Dane Evans hurt you 

21 hours ago, Noeller said:

woof what a garbage draft year: 

https://www.cfl.ca/draft-tracker/2017/

I would more say woof what a garbage scouting year

There are more contributors in the 5th and 6th rounds than in the 1st and 2nd. Yikes.

5 hours ago, 17to85 said:

That was Faith Ekakite I believe, and no-one was laughing at you because you didn't think much of him... the mockery came from how absolutely personal you seemed to take his failures as a player. 

Personally, I find your lack of Faith disturbing....

Edited March 21, 20232 yr by Tracker

9 hours ago, Mike said:

Show us on the doll where Dane Evans hurt you 

 

I have never liked players who put themselves above everybody else. That whatever happens on the field isn't their fault. That somebody else on the team screwed up. Or someone on the line whiffed a block causing a sack or a fumble. Meanwhile that same player throws criticizes other teammates throws interceptions at criticial times in a game, it doesn't matter. If this kind of thing happens once then okay **** happens as emotions get the best of us all  However, when it's a regular occurence that needs to be addressed. Especially from the qb position. And Orlando Steinhauer did address it. He seems like a guy who is a player's coach & will let a lot of things slide by but even he had enough with Evans.

Anyway, that's my answer. Feel free to agree or disagree.

On 2023-03-20 at 11:51 AM, GCn20 said:

Wish we would have done more with the 1st overall, but who we drafted does not diminish the worth of that pick. I am in disbelief that anyone would not see the intrinsic value of having the 1st overall pick in any draft year. Draft picks can be busts, but I still place a ton of value on having a top 3 CFL draft pick. Who we got with that pick is irrelevant.  It doesn't make the trade better for Toronto, it just means we squandered a golden opportunity. Just having the opportunity of dibs on all draft eligible players is very valuable. 

For all we know, if Toronto retains that pick maybe they take Cam Judge, or Geoff Gray....

The CFL Draft is being diminished by more & more players going to the NFL. That first pick isn't a first pick anymore. Maybe it's a fifth pick in reality. I said this before that it's becoming time to eliminate the ratio. & Neg Lists & have an overall general draft. Times are changing the CFL is stagnating. Gotta be able to cahnge & adapt with the times.