As I recall, as a QB Buck Pierce seemed to me somewhat of a Mississippi gambler, both in his passing style and in the way he sacrificed his body. He was all heart and an automatic hire when his body was done.

Then he did his apprenticeship under Paul LaPolice. PLOP's dink and dunk style drove many of us fans crazy. Now we are grumbling about Buck's play calling. Was he tainted to not be his own man? Yet we have had great success even tonight.

So do we just have a great defense and a barely adequate offence? Is it our offensive strategy and overall "careful" philosophy that has led to tepid performance this year? Or are we having a personnel problem at O-Line, running back and receiver?

What is the remedy for this under performing offence?

 

Edited July 5, 20223 yr by BigBlue

Offense was slow out of the gate last season as well. Peirce seems go keep things vanilla to start the year  it will improve I have no worries.

It feels like this year they are just far more conservative in the passing game and the run game it feels like the o-line is getting pushed back far more then last season when the o-line was over powering the opposition.   Every run play it seems like the d-line is within a few feet of the back by the time he gets the ball.  

 

We need a legit deep threat to stretch the field to keep defenses, especially secondaries honest.

We need a much better run game than what we have now, If we can't establish the run then we can't establish the pass as they go hand in hand.

Our OL is not playing well regarding the run. That has to improve greatly.

We have suffered free agent losses & key injuries. We couldn't keep everyone together from 2021 because of salary cap issues. So, we definitely have holes to fill. Finding players now isn't easy as NFL camps will be opening next week. Some players may become available at the end of the month when first cuts are made. We may see some players then. However, the USFL & XFL will be going after them as well.  Things are tight all around. 

6 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Our OL is not playing well regarding the run. That has to improve greatly.

The OL should still be very good, in spite of the losses.  I don't know if it's the running backs, as they had some good games without Harris last year.  I am almost inclined to think it might be the lack of big threats in the receiving corps - opposition is focussing more on the line of scrimmage.

There's no way to stretch the defense right now. No one is fast enough to make the d worry. Or, so it seems. Everything is vanilla, with lots of throws into the middle of the field. 

Will need to see the stats on Skip's throwing grid. 

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

The OL should still be very good, in spite of the losses.  I don't know if it's the running backs, as they had some good games without Harris last year.  I am almost inclined to think it might be the lack of big threats in the receiving corps - opposition is focussing more on the line of scrimmage.

Lack of deep threat and vanilla run scheme...which is 100% predictable. 

Let's face it....we don't have an Andrew anymore....Having said that our running game is definitely bogged down because of???Play calling....maybe.....talent is still there...just not the big holes Harris had to run through and no push.....Receivers are getting open and the talent is there.....just don't have that deep guy and it's really noticeable now that Demski is out......I'm sure we'll figure it out as the season moves on ....

I do not at all buy into the theory that the run game is suffering because there's no Harris. It wasn't this bad last year without him.

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

The OL should still be very good, in spite of the losses.  I don't know if it's the running backs, as they had some good games without Harris last year.  I am almost inclined to think it might be the lack of big threats in the receiving corps - opposition is focussing more on the line of scrimmage.

It's the Oline.  The running backs are running into walls.  They never seem to run it off tackle.

Losing Desjarlais was a big loss. Couture getting hurt makes it worse . I love yoshi but it seems he's banged up lots. Neufeld doesn't practice it seems, Bryant is a stud but not exactly young anymore. The oline needs some work. 

Edited July 5, 20223 yr by Goalie

It appears losing Harris, Lawler, and Dejarlais is much more difficult to overcome than we had anticipated.... I have faith in the team to work out the kinks and get the offense moving... remember, we still have Zach Collaros and I wouldn't trade him for any other QB in the league right now

There's a reason they signed 2 Yankee ol to the PR last week.

1 hour ago, CrazyCanuck89 said:

It's the Oline.  The running backs are running into walls.  They never seem to run it off tackle.

Absolutely! No doubt it will get better as the O-line gets in sync with each other, but we definitely need a deep threat and better playcalling/execution on our passing game.

How does a deep threat make a difference when guys are in our backfield in 2 seconds? Maybe we should sign Clarke Kent cuz thats the only deep threat that could make it happen in 1 or 2 seconds 

6 minutes ago, Goalie said:

How does a deep threat make a difference when guys are in our backfield in 2 seconds? Maybe we should sign Clarke Kent cuz thats the only deep threat that could make it happen in 1 or 2 seconds 

A consistent deep threat forces a D to commit more players to downfield coverage. Net result is fewer guys applying pressure up front.

I was just gonna say...can't blitz everyone if you've got a legit threat deep downfield. It's really not that complicated. 

49 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I was just gonna say...can't blitz everyone if you've got a legit threat deep downfield. It's really not that complicated. 

Also loosens up the shorter coverages too.

2 hours ago, bearpants said:

It appears losing Harris, Lawler, and Dejarlais is much more difficult to overcome than we had anticipated.... I have faith in the team to work out the kinks and get the offense moving... remember, we still have Zach Collaros and I wouldn't trade him for any other QB in the league right now

Actually.....Desjarlais seems to be the biggest loss...and with Couture now out just compounded it...the other biggest loss is Adams...he set the tone for the receivers and was key yo the blocking and keeping the rest in check....he also was a legit downfield threat...Lawler, sure would been nice to have but again not for what he would have took to sign...and again, he had 1 true good year, and I'd wanna have had seen a couple in a row....dominant ones to justify that $$....Harris...meh....we dont need an aging unreliable RB....management tho misplayed or over estimated the keeping the ratio there....should have brought in 2 or 3 studs if just for anything to push the incumbents....but we will figure things out, that I have no concerns about, and to be at 4-0 after being for most part less than inspiring on one side of the ball is a bonus, and that with guys like Rose, Jeffcoat, Demski, Couture, Wilson (now done for year I bet)  missing time, BA not even hitting field yet, and a lot guys playing hurt is almost baffling, but also says a lot.

A small tweek here, a slight shuffle here....and 14 games till play-offs to do it, I think we sitting good and right where we wanna be...we were a work in progress first 3rd of last year too....

One thing we have now and we didn't use to have is a reliable scouting staff. McManus & Goveia have done a wonderful job. They are capable of bringing iin some real studs over the summer, difference makers. Not everyone has to incubate on the PR.

yeah....no need to panic at all....we gave ourselves a nice 4-0 cushion to start season, know what we need to work on now after 4 games, and have the faith and belief that the powers that be see/know it too, and discussions are being had....the Oline brought back 4 all-stars...they didnt lose their ability and fall off a cliff from December when they last played...the game where Couture got hurt they were coming into form, and now will need a lil gel time...defense is fine tho the Wilson injury hurts, but then again a lot of time it allows a new guy to emerge, so in the end we could be even stronger if/when Wilson comes back.

The issue we need to fix up is to bring in...or roster....and use properly a different style of receiver who is a downfield guy...fast and long and a threat from anywhere on the field....that and designate Johnny as the true RB1 for next game, and give full reps of 15 touches or more to get in game flow to see what he can/can't do as a actual full-time starter....and if it more of the same then time to rethink the ratio and bring in a RB in the mold of Carey or Standback and go that route....ratio wise we don't need that spot to be a Canadian player, and we can still use one of the young guys in rotation and in certain sets....we do that and we will be just fine.

it's also where you are in oct/nov...not in june/july and as it stands now....we have wiggle room to figure it out as worst case scenario even if we only win say 3 more games here on out it's pretty much a lock to cross over with 7 wins...maybe 8...and this is probably the team that would be the one to cross over, and get to the Grey Cup, and win it...and wouldn't it be just icing on the cake to do that and thrash the Riders at IGWest...mind you i don't see them getting there regardless

Edited July 5, 20223 yr by Booch

17 minutes ago, Booch said:

yeah....no need to panic at all....we gave ourselves a nice 4-0 cushion to start season, know what we need to work on now after 4 games, and have the faith and belief that the powers that be see/know it too, and discussions are being had....the Oline brought back 4 all-stars...they didnt lose their ability and fall off a cliff from December when they last played...the game where Couture got hurt they were coming into form, and now will need a lil gel time...defense is fine tho the Wilson injury hurts, but then again a lot of time it allows a new guy to emerge, so in the end we could be even stronger if/when Wilson comes back.

The issue we need to fix up is to bring in...or roster....and use properly a different style of receiver who is a downfield guy...fast and long and a threat from anywhere on the field....that and designate Johnny as the true RB1 for next game, and give full reps of 15 touches or more to get in game flow to see what he can/can't do as a actual full-time starter....and if it more of the same then time to rethink the ratio and bring in a RB in the mold of Carey or Standback and go that route....ratio wise we don't need that spot to be a Canadian player, and we can still use one of the young guys in rotation and in certain sets....we do that and we will be just fine.

it's also where you are in oct/nov...not in june/july and as it stands now....we have wiggle room to figure it out as worst case scenario even if we only win say 3 more games here on out it's pretty much a lock to cross over with 7 wins...maybe 8...and this is probably the team that would be the one to cross over, and get to the Grey Cup, and win it...and wouldn't it be just icing on the cake to do that and thrash the Riders at IGWest...mind you i don't see them getting there regardless

TBH I thought the Oline was doing a pretty good job of pass blocking last night - It certainly didn't feel like Collaros was constantly running for his life.

Biggest issue IMO was the screens and horizontal passes 

Collaros had 25 completions - out of those 11 were thrown to receivers who were between 0 and 2 yards from the LOS - our NET YARDS on those 11 passes was 13 YARDS.

7 of 11 of those LOS passes gained less than 2 yards (4 LOST yards) and we immediately had to surrender possession 4 times after those plays.

Something wasn't working with their scheme on those quick passing horizontal plays - to my eye one issue looked like receivers not making their blocks.

12 minutes ago, BomberfanMKS said:

TBH I thought the Oline was doing a pretty good job of pass blocking last night - It certainly didn't feel like Collaros was constantly running for his life.

Biggest issue IMO was the screens and horizontal passes 

Collaros had 25 completions - out of those 11 were thrown to receivers who were between 0 and 2 yards from the LOS - our NET YARDS on those 11 passes was 13 YARDS.

7 of 11 of those LOS passes gained less than 2 yards (4 LOST yards) and we immediately had to surrender possession 4 times after those plays.

Something wasn't working with their scheme on those quick passing horizontal plays - to my eye one issue looked like receivers not making their blocks.

did we attempt play action even once? I know the run game wasn't great, but you'd think it was enough that they could have at least tried it...

13 minutes ago, BomberfanMKS said:

TBH I thought the Oline was doing a pretty good job of pass blocking last night - It certainly didn't feel like Collaros was constantly running for his life.

Biggest issue IMO was the screens and horizontal passes 

Collaros had 25 completions - out of those 11 were thrown to receivers who were between 0 and 2 yards from the LOS - our NET YARDS on those 11 passes was 13 YARDS.

7 of 11 of those LOS passes gained less than 2 yards (4 LOST yards) and we immediately had to surrender possession 4 times after those plays.

Something wasn't working with their scheme on those quick passing horizontal plays - to my eye one issue looked like receivers not making their blocks.

yeah the line has been fairly good....we been spoiled with utter excellence and dominance going on 3 yrs now....so when we play good it seems like such a let down...the bizzare amount of screens and hitches thrown was baffling given how the Argo snuffed them out repeatedly...now was it an issue of Ellingson was knicked and couldn't block as usual...as he is very effective, and Yoshi being hurt and not able to get up field off the edge like he normally would...who knows....but you also need to use that to set up plays off of it, and we didnt do that once from what I recall...that scheme really shows how we miss Adams....he was very effective blocking and smacking DB's and just generally getting under their skin

1 minute ago, Booch said:

yeah the line has been fairly good....we been spoiled with utter excellence and dominance going on 3 yrs now....so when we play good it seems like such a let down...the bizzare amount of screens and hitches thrown was baffling given how the Argo snuffed them out repeatedly...now was it an issue of Ellingson was knicked and couldn't block as usual...as he is very effective, and Yoshi being hurt and not able to get up field off the edge like he normally would...who knows....but you also need to use that to set up plays off of it, and we didnt do that once from what I recall...that scheme really shows how we miss Adams....he was very effective blocking and smacking DB's and just generally getting under their skin

 

Yeh Collaros was saying a lot of those plays were audibles based on TO lining up to counter the run... Feels like they need to have some other options for run stacked audibles (maybe like you said key guys being knicked hurt the performance of those plays as well)

 

2 hours ago, Booch said:

yeah the line has been fairly good....we been spoiled with utter excellence and dominance going on 3 yrs now....so when we play good it seems like such a let down...the bizzare amount of screens and hitches thrown was baffling given how the Argo snuffed them out repeatedly...now was it an issue of Ellingson was knicked and couldn't block as usual...as he is very effective, and Yoshi being hurt and not able to get up field off the edge like he normally would...who knows....but you also need to use that to set up plays off of it, and we didnt do that once from what I recall...that scheme really shows how we miss Adams....he was very effective blocking and smacking DB's and just generally getting under their skin

Only 1 sack given up to Priester on a blitz, that's pretty good considering the personnel the Argos have on their D-line.  Protection first, run blocking next.