kelownabomberfan Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 36 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said: You mean the stories all over the internet and every news site in the free world? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Can you imagine if every news outlet simply forwarded on every unsubstantiated tip and report that came in? BuzzFeed already has no integrity or credibility as a legitimate news source so I'm not surprised they did it. But it just seems absurd to me to publish this with ZERO corroboration. I mean NONE. That's not right. I also think this is very different from something like Pizzagate. Pizzagate was always just theories. I was very confused when it became lumped in with all the "fake news", because to me it wasn't really fake news at all. It was crackpot theories based off legitimate sources and to me that's not what fake news is. Fake news is "Hilary Clinton spotted at satanic ritual!"... you know, outright lies passed off as fact. The Unknown Poster and kelownabomberfan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Atomic said: But it just seems absurd to me to publish this with ZERO corroboration. I mean NONE. That's not right. agree, it's a smear campaign. I'm amazed that anyone believes a single thing that comes out of the CIA. Their record of lying, is well established. curveball/Chalabi two important CIA informants that were proven liars. sadaam Hussein .....weapons of mass destruction Significant quantities of uranium from *****.(country in Africa, edited by the site) When the spooks say "a retired British intelligence agent", it makes me laugh. I wonder did he work on the "thirty minutes from launch" dossier? Lol. I don't like Trump, but he hasn't murdered anyone yet. Or started a pointless war, that killed hundreds of thousands, based on utter fabrications. Can't say that about the CIA. They lie to Congress, under oath, with impunity. If you go and look up on the internets, how often they've been wrong, in their "assessments" you would be surprised. Edited January 11, 2017 by Mark F incoherent post Atomic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) Probably the attack on Trump is more related to this Quote "Donald Trump is working on a plan that would restructure the CIA — cutting staff at the agency’s headquarters in Langley and moving more agents to field posts across the globe, a report says. “The view from the Trump team is the intelligence world [is] becoming completely politicized,” a source close to the President-elect told the Wall Street Journal. The insider is one of the few people familiar with Trump’s planning and said his advisers were also working to scale back the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, as well. “They all need to be slimmed down,” the source said. “The focus will be on restructuring the agencies and how they interact.” NY Post. Edited January 11, 2017 by Mark F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Great comment at Emptywheel "Meanwhile, the United States of Absurdity, becomes the laughingstock of the planet, where Donald the Clown hosts a daily, international Carnival of goofballs, halfwits, morons, buffoons, ventriloquists, snake oil salesman, Shell games, Hall of Mirrors, liars, crooks, thieves and tons of money. " also, (the source is supposed to be various Russians,) "So, members and ex members of the Russian gov. ,which denies “hacking our election”, are helping the US gov. prove that they did just that? That’s not strange. Not. At. All. Every day this story gets crazier." Atomic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 6 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said: I think it would be weird if someone didnt find this plausible. The intelligence game isnt going to always hit a homerun, but you've got various agencies reporting pretty disturbing things about Russia's efforts to hack. You've got Trump's own words of being closely tied to Russia and his sudden reversal. You've got Trump's own words of basically being a womanizer. His son revealed their immense ties to Russia. And you've got the awkward denials, from Trump and Russia. Clearly something is going on here. Does it mean Trump has been compromised? No. But he seems more angry that the intelligence briefing was leaked then that it exists. His claims to have zero ties to Russia are a lie. So who's he trying to kid? What is he hiding? Knowing his ego, if there are tapes of him engaging in wild sex parties, you have to wonder what Russia could get him to do to avoid that release. What is more troubling than Trump's sex games is the speculation he was intimately involved in assisting or otherwise working with Russia on hacking the Democrats. You're bordering on treason in that respect. Trump hasnt even served a day as President and he's looking like a complete disaster. Let's hope the people around him are smart enough to drag him through an acceptable term. where do you come up with all of this ? from thin air or are you a closet Hillary democratic worshipper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) now, the "British spy" name is out, and he fears for his life. Man this is goofy. Just astounding. If you're out there God, Please take the nukes away from the Americans? Edited January 12, 2017 by Mark F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 9 hours ago, Atomic said: k this is very different from something like Pizzagate. Pizzagate was always just theories. I was very confused when it became lumped in with all the "fake news", because to me it wasn't really fake news at all. It was crackpot theories based off legitimate sources and to me that's not what fake news is. Fake news is "Hilary Clinton spotted at satanic ritual!"... you know, outright lies passed off as fact. What theories? What legitimate sources? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweep the leg Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38589427#pq=RbIoXb Pretty good breakdown of what's going on by one of the best news orgs in the world. Jacquie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) edit edit edit Quote Edited January 12, 2017 by Mark F edit needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 16 hours ago, Mark F said: I'm amazed that anyone believes a single thing that comes out of the CIA. Their record of lying, is well established. I think the troubling part is when this story came out most reactions were "yeah, I could see Trump doing that"... whether true or not... certainly the previous few presidents would have been given the benefit of the doubt (well maybe Bill would be into that kind of stuff too )... It seems so hard these days to trust any news source... I used to rely on sources like the NYT and the Wash Post... what's the most legitimate news source in Canada these days??? National Post?? You literally have to read everything with a grain of salt now... Mark F 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 10 hours ago, Jacquie said: What theories? What legitimate sources? Are you familiar with Pizzagate and what it is/was? Because if you are then I don't understand your questions because the answers are obvious. So you'll either have to read up on Pizzagate, be more pointed and specific with your questions, or withdraw from the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 28 minutes ago, bearpants said: I think the troubling part is when this story came out most reactions were "yeah, I could see Trump doing that"... whether true or not... certainly the previous few presidents would have been given the benefit of the doubt (well maybe Bill would be into that kind of stuff too )... It seems so hard these days to trust any news source... I used to rely on sources like the NYT and the Wash Post... what's the most legitimate news source in Canada these days??? National Post?? You literally have to read everything with a grain of salt now... Depends what you consider legitimate. Every news source has a conservative or liberal slant. It doesn't mean they're not legitimate, but you just have to be aware of what you're reading and how they might be shaping the information they present. NYT and Wash Post are heavily biased to be liberal. Washington Post especially is the most left-wing mainstream publication in North America. Vice is another source heavily biased to the left. In Canada, you've got the Sun chain and to a lesser extent National Post who are conservative, and then basically everyone else is liberal, some more than others. The National Post was originally intended to be conservative but these days is more towards the centre or even a little to the left depending on the day. I find them pretty balanced in general. The far-right barely exists in Canada, or at least doesn't have much of a voice. Then you have an outlet like Breitbart who is trying to achieve credibility but is basically a white nationalist publication. Or the so-called "Alt-Right". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) Ray McGovern worked for the CIA for much of his life, highest level, and briefed the first President Bush. (The Bush who said an Iraq invasion would be a quagmire) Ray thinks Brennan is afraid of Trump. Ray writes : Quote The rubbish released yesterday by CNN about the blackmail material that the Russians supposedly have on President-elect Trump is not to be taken seriously. The episode is, nonetheless, quite serious. also quotes a former MI5 officer. Quote " … from Annie Machon – former UK MI5 officer, whistleblower, who is thoroughly familiar with the shenanigans of MI6 … “This farrago of nonsense makes the infamous Iraq weapons of mass destruction report look positively professional in comparison. “And if, in some parallel universe, these fabrications could conceivably be true, the leaking to the US media of these alleged reports by a so-called British MI6 “operative” would have blown the cover of innumerable highly placed and valuable intelligence sources. “Such sources are the crown jewels of intelligence work, so if these reports have any basis in reality, I would expect heads to roll in both MI6 and the CIA.” Ray is neither left nor right wing. good article. http://raymcgovern.com/ Edited January 12, 2017 by Mark F Atomic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelownabomberfan Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Atomic said: Then you have an outlet like Breitbart who is trying to achieve credibility but is basically a white nationalist publication. Or the so-called "Alt-Right". and Buzzfeed which is leading the "alt-left". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, bearpants said: I think the troubling part is when this story came out most reactions were "yeah, I could see Trump doing that"... whether true or not... certainly the previous few presidents would have been given the benefit of the doubt (well maybe Bill would be into that kind of stuff too )... It seems so hard these days to trust any news source... I used to rely on sources like the NYT and the Wash Post... what's the most legitimate news source in Canada these days??? National Post?? You literally have to read everything with a grain of salt now... I don't trust the New York Times generally, nor the Washington Post. The New York Times led the media charge for the Blair/ Bush junior invasion of Iraq, all based on obvious fabrications. funny, that sexual escapades is the one thing that is almost certain to get someone turfed from office in the USA. silly, childish, and hypocritical. Edited January 12, 2017 by Mark F kelownabomberfan and bearpants 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 17 hours ago, BigBlue said: where do you come up with all of this ? from thin air or are you a closet Hillary democratic worshipper? What are you talking about? Does the Internet not work where you are? Do you have the news? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said: and Buzzfeed which is leading the "alt-left". I've never really considered BuzzFeed that way, or in any way a factor in news coverage. That's why I'm really surprised that they would publish this, of all places. Most of their articles are just clickbait. It's not news, it's just junk. It would be like if TMZ published it. kelownabomberfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Its fascinating. Because there is an effort to paint this dossier as complete fiction. And yet, that's not really what is being said. There is definitely an over-sell going on by Trump and his supporters. The problem is that he lies, seemingly for sport. So what can you believe. I read the dossier. Are the events therein confirmed? Ofcourse not. But the source who compiled them is considered credible. That's what the intelligence game is - seeking information from sources you deem credible. We can agree the dossier should not have been leaked. But it would seem the intelligence community considers it important enough to have sent to enough people to ensure its leakage. Im not sure I buy that this is the result of Trump's attack on the CIA since the dossier was originally paid for by the Republicans...and then the Democrats as opposition research. The idea the Russians dont have information on Trump is laughable. Ofcourse they do. Whether its compromising or not isnt the point. Russia would effectively not be doing its job if it didnt have intelligence on him. I dont care so much about hookers pissing on the President. We know he's a sleaze. But what really needs investigating is the suggestion that there was quid pro quo between Trump (and his team) and Russia. Isnt that important enough to warrant an investigation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Just now, Atomic said: I've never really considered BuzzFeed that way, or in any way a factor in news coverage. That's why I'm really surprised that they would publish this, of all places. Most of their articles are just clickbait. It's not news, it's just junk. It would be like if TMZ published it. Buzzfeed has tried to go more mainstream. There will be people who appreciate them releasing the dossier as a matter of public record. I read through it and its very interesting. But I agree that Americans should be appalled that something like that would be leaked. I would think any suggestion, rightly or wrongly, that the President was compromised or conspired with an enemy nation to undermine a federal election would be confidential and properly investigated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said: Its fascinating. Because there is an effort to paint this dossier as complete fiction. And yet, that's not really what is being said. There is definitely an over-sell going on by Trump and his supporters. The problem is that he lies, seemingly for sport. So what can you believe. I read the dossier. Are the events therein confirmed? Ofcourse not. But the source who compiled them is considered credible. That's what the intelligence game is - seeking information from sources you deem credible. We can agree the dossier should not have been leaked. But it would seem the intelligence community considers it important enough to have sent to enough people to ensure its leakage. Im not sure I buy that this is the result of Trump's attack on the CIA since the dossier was originally paid for by the Republicans...and then the Democrats as opposition research. The idea the Russians dont have information on Trump is laughable. Ofcourse they do. Whether its compromising or not isnt the point. Russia would effectively not be doing its job if it didnt have intelligence on him. I dont care so much about hookers pissing on the President. We know he's a sleaze. But what really needs investigating is the suggestion that there was quid pro quo between Trump (and his team) and Russia. Isnt that important enough to warrant an investigation? Warrant an investigation? If the dossier is real then it IS the investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 26 minutes ago, Atomic said: Warrant an investigation? If the dossier is real then it IS the investigation. Well its a summary of memos prepared by a former Mi6 agent. So its not an investigation. Intelligence people use sources. And those sources have sources. Will take more than one credible agent's summary to prove anything. But the denials dont pass the sniff test. Trump has lied so much about Russia. And then suddenly he admits Russia hacked during the election? Trying to distance himself. If you read the dossier, Russia wanted to distance itself too after experiencing buyers remorse on Trump. Its really quite fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquie Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Atomic said: Are you familiar with Pizzagate and what it is/was? Because if you are then I don't understand your questions because the answers are obvious. So you'll either have to read up on Pizzagate, be more pointed and specific with your questions, or withdraw from the conversation. I am quite familiar with Pizzagate but don't know how Podesta emails about an individual wanting to organize a Clinton fundraiser can be considered a legitimate source for conspiracy theories about a child sex/trafficking ring. 4Chan invented the conspiracy theories based on absolutely nothing. Edited January 12, 2017 by Jacquie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlue Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 6 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said: What are you talking about? Does the Internet not work where you are? Do you have the news? There is a big difference between the internet and news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedFlex27 Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Just can't see Trump lasting 4 years. Certainly based on what I saw yesterday. He's a clown who'll be impeached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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