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Lawless says there is trade market for Willy

Mike

By Mike
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tacklewasher Rookie

tacklewasher

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11 minutes ago, White Out said:

If your argument rests on logical fallacies (appeals to authority)

If your argument is based on not understanding when an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, you've lost. Hint. If the authority being appealed to as an actual authority on the subject, it is not a logical fallacy.

Pet peeve of mine where people think any reference to an authority is a logical fallacy.

 

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bigg jay
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Mike
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I can't help but chuckle that some folks can't imagine the idea of Drew Willy being an effective starter ever again even knowing that the best QB mind in the CFL seems to think he can.

tacklewasher
tacklewasher

If your argument is based on not understanding when an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, you've lost. Hint. If the authority being appealed to as an actual authority on the subject, it is not

White Out Experienced

White Out

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1 minute ago, Goalie said:

I guess the real question is... what type of market is it? I mean, If you are going to move Willy, you'd definitely need a QB, and not some rookie coming back our way unless the Bombers feel confident Davis and Bennett can win some games if Nichols goes down... Which I'm not sure they are, Has Davis seen the field this season? more than once or twice? or at all even? I can't recall, maybe once or twice in short yardage earlier but not since. So the Bombers would need a QB coming back for sure... 

I'd agree with Mike here that the only way a Willy trade works for the Bombers is a 3 way involving another team and Montreal (or BC i guess) (Glenn/Lulay)

 

Ya to me this kind of sums up the issue. When I made a list on paper just now to see where I ranked QBs, I find names like Franklin and Jennings and Lulay nearish to where I have Nichols. With Willy not far behind from them. I have a tough time seeing any of those options available, and then, at a reasonable price. 

The only way this happens is if MOS and company feel that Bennett or Davis can be a reliable #2. I don't see that being the case.

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White Out

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, tacklewasher said:

If your argument is based on not understanding when an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, you've lost. Hint. If the authority being appealed to as an actual authority on the subject, it is not a logical fallacy.

Pet peeve of mine where people think any reference to an authority is a logical fallacy.

 

Reads like someone who needs to use google. An appeal to authority is when your argument for something being correct is a person in a position of perceived authority agrees with you.

 

Edited by White Out
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Goalie Grand Master

Goalie

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I think they are very high on Bennett but to throw a rookie pretty much in there if Nichols gets hurt is asking for problems... we are in a playoff battle right now... as much as some might not want to admit it, if Nichols got hurt, I'm sure most people here regardless, would feel a lot more Comfortable with Willy starting then Davis or Bennett at this point... and if not, well, then.... those people have an odd way of looking at things. 

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Atomic Collaborator

Atomic

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Appeal to Authority

argumentum ad verecundiam

(also known as: argument from authority, appeal to false authority, argument from false authority, ipse dixit, testimonials [form of])

Definition: Using an authority as evidence in your argument when the authority is not really an authority on the facts relevant to the argument.  As the audience, allowing an irrelevant authority to add credibility to the claim being made.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/21/Appeal-to-Authority

I would say that Scott Milanovich and other CFL coaches count as authorities on the subject of CFL quarterbacking, therefore this is not the Appeal to Authority fallacy.

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White Out

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Posted

Also Known as: Fallacious Appeal to Authority, Misuse of Authority, Irrelevant Authority, Questionable Authority, Inappropriate Authority, Ad Verecundiam

Description of Appeal to Authority

An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form:

 

  1. Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S.
  2. Person A makes claim C about subject S.
  3. Therefore, C is true.
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Atomic Collaborator

Atomic

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Just now, White Out said:

Also Known as: Fallacious Appeal to Authority, Misuse of Authority, Irrelevant Authority, Questionable Authority, Inappropriate Authority, Ad Verecundiam

Description of Appeal to Authority

An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form:

 

  1. Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S.
  2. Person A makes claim C about subject S.
  3. Therefore, C is true.

Ya and quote the next sentence from that site.

" This fallacy is committed when the person in question is not a legitimate authority on the subject. "

Seriously it was the next sentence, you just had to keep reading.

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Mike Veteran

Mike

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1 minute ago, White Out said:

Hopefully this starts a new trend here. I have misused the appeal to Authority fallacy. I was wrong.

Maybe some Willy fans will follow my lead. 

Maybe you should google "opinion" too. You can disagree with me. It doesn't make me wrong.

 

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Mark F Grand Master

Mark F

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Milanovich career as a coach 

I think it's safe to say he knows a thing or two about quarterbacks.    :lol:

 

Edited by Mark F
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wbbfan Grand Master

wbbfan

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1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Only QBs I'd want in return would be Glenn or Lulay, realistically.....not sure either of these happen. As long as Montreal is in a hunt, they're not going to deal Glenn, and they're very much in the playoff picture over there.

I would certainly love either of those. I dont think lulay happens. Glenn, idk. At the same time, glenn will win you the game or lose you the game. I dont think he can manage the game like nichols is. Even if nichols (imop) hasnt been great and glenn is better, I think in our system glenn would do worse. 

Wow this topic got crazy de railed. 

 

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White Out Experienced

White Out

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15 minutes ago, Atomic said:

That's your opinion.  And it's wrong.

LOGIC LOOP ENGAGE

Lol. Ok fair. But opinions on things that are a matter of taste are hard to argue. Like which season is best fall or winter. 

But opinions on things that carry facts and data are a bit different. An opinion that Rich Gannon  is a better qb than Peyton Manning is likely to be held as unpopular and incorrect by most. 

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wbbfan Grand Master

wbbfan

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35 minutes ago, Mark F said:

Milanovich career as a coach 

I think it's safe to say he knows a thing or two about quarterbacks.    :lol:

 

Its not the number of roles hes held that impresses me. Its the number of high quality qbs hes managed. Either he has a wally buono size horse shoe in his butt or he knows how to scout, develop, and manage qbs. 

Weve seen guys like bellefool with a long history struggle greatly. Rod rust and others as well. 

 How about that comparison, buono vs milanovich. Buono has certainly had the highest level of success for the longest. But milanovich is slowly creeping up on him. 

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Noeller Grand Master

Noeller

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2 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Its not the number of roles hes held that impresses me. Its the number of high quality qbs hes managed.

For me, it's both. The dude CLEARLY knows what he's doing when it comes to managing an offense in the CFL, and grooming QBs. If he tells me that he thinks Drew Willy is a guy he wants, there is just no way you can argue it sanely.

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wbbfan Grand Master

wbbfan

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Just now, Noeller said:

For me, it's both. The dude CLEARLY knows what he's doing when it comes to managing an offense in the CFL, and grooming QBs. If he tells me that he thinks Drew Willy is a guy he wants, there is just no way you can argue it sanely.

It certainly is an impressive list of doing the same type of work at the pro level. cant take that away from him. When a guy has that many pro jobs doing the same thing, hes doing some thing right. especially when you look at the number of organizations. 

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LimJahey Newbie

LimJahey

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2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

besides the money, the fact that not retaining him worked out soo poorly would only reinforce a desire not to repeat that situation. 

 

The double standard here with qbs is causing people to blind them self to the facts. Willy is damaged, not ruined. How much so the teams have a much better idea then the board. He was considered a strong mid level qb with high potential going into the season. The league is generally qb driven, its a rare thing for a D and teams like ours to perform as they have over the long run. The difference between nichols and willy isnt as great as some would think. What is, is more intangible. The OL turn around, D rounding out into maybe the best in the league, and teams steady improvement into a top unit isnt all because of the qb. Nichols was apart of the winning atmosphere we developed, but not the soul cause of it. 

Willy fits Torontos system as well. And millanovich likes to test the mettle of his qb and put them in the hardest situations. Doesnt get much harder then the first few weeks of our season. 

montreal could look to move on from glenn who wont get any better. 

Hamm could be interested if they believe now that masoli is no longer a qb of the future or present. 

I could see some other teams interested in him cheaper for a back up. Having a guy on the bench who has won games, and in the clutch late in games is a valuable asset. The question is at what price. if he is a stop gap in case a star qb gets hurt, hes worth less and if they have to pay him a lot of money the value is even lower. Look at the far worse qbs weve seen cycled through the league for a long time. If willy was a FA he would have plenty of interest.

I dont think there is going to be massive return by any means if we traded him. Probably a package that slides around salary cap relief and young talent. The other team taking more or less of willys deal, neg listers, maybe current young prospects or depth draft picks. 

"everything around was the problem, nothing was on WIlly". Give me a break, Willy had open receivers, time in the pocket and the same defense we have now and did absolutely nothing.

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