Booch Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 O-Line men actually in most cases are in their primes between 28-and 34...some cases even longer especially at center so I like this pick up. If you truly wanted to nit pick and dissect a player you could find fault in all of them and signs to the un-trained eye that may lead you think that they are on the decline. 32 going on 33 for a center is not an issue in the CFL unless they were a marginal guy all through their careers, which Picard was not. I would bet he has 3 good years at least left and the new environment and the desire to nip the "on the decline" generalization in the bud will motivate him for sure. Regardless, the front office and most people who know anything know Goose isn't ready for prime time yet so I would much rather have even a slightly declining Picard at center than him to teach and groom with. In all honesty with what we have now, we are already well on way to establishing depth and talent on the line. If Daniels continues to impress like most think he will, Neufeld stays outta the tub, we find one other "dominant nasty" import to challenge or win a job and can draft one stud, and lure one above average younger free agent we just may be sitting pretty, and if Wiley is the perceived magic man he has shown and reputation dictates our one main area of weakness last year could be one of our strengths this year... sweep the leg and voodoochylde 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.O.A.B. Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 If Walters is willing to outbid anyone just to get Heenan, Heenan + Picard will amount close to $500k per season. Well I guess, if they are willing to spend big money, investing it on the OL is the top choice. Can't win games if the QB is always on the turf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booch Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I actually think Holmes has more upside and more to offer...If we had a choice I would take him, and he would prob save us about 30k in cap space...initially anyway James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoochylde Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I actually think Holmes has more upside and more to offer...If we had a choice I would take him, and he would prob save us about 30k in cap space...initially anyway Curious to know what your thoughts on Greaves are .. when he was drafted, I thought "project" (and to an extent I still do) .. I see a guy with phyiscal tools who is still trying to put things together consistently .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue204 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 if we sign heenan or holmes what are the chances of us starting 5 cnd olinemen this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodoochylde Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 if we sign heenan or holmes what are the chances of us starting 5 cnd olinemen this year? I think the more likely scenario would be 4 NIs on the offensive line with a couple solid guys in reserve .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I actually think Holmes has more upside and more to offer...If we had a choice I would take him, and he would prob save us about 30k in cap space...initially anyway From a $$$:contribution ratio point of view, there could be just as much value for the Bombers going after the best non-Olineman NI in free agency as Heenan anyways. If Heenan runs up to $300,000, which is entirely within the realm of possibilities, the savings by going with a talented import at that spot could be in the range of $180,000. If you take that excess cash and use it to sign the best NI receiver or Dlineman (don't have the list in front of me) and get a solid starter or guy who can be part of a great rotational tandem, it still will hit the marks for both quality of play and ratio needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booch Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I like him...coming into his fifth year as a convert at 28 now I think he should be establishing himself as a very solid guy. Has the physical tools, agility, and smarts to be a well above average guard, and he should have the inherent instincts down now where he doesn't have to think as much rather than just react now. He didn't have the 10 years or so prior to being drafted to aquire this, so I think he is coming into his own just about right on schedule and what you would expect. Injuries hampered him a bit last year, as well as trying to do too much to compensate for lack luster play elsewhere on the line. But surrounded by even just decent linemates, he can focus on his own role and not be noticed, which is what you want. He has great run blocking instincts though and gets into the second level very well to make blocks, and even just get in the way of a defender trying to track down a ball carrier which I like as well, whereas a lot of linemen u see make their designed initial play, then just kind of stand there dumbfounded...Greaves seeks out guys TBURGESS and voodoochylde 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 if we sign heenan or holmes what are the chances of us starting 5 cnd olinemen this year? I think the more likely scenario would be 4 NIs on the offensive line with a couple solid guys in reserve .. Yeah, let's walk before we run. We started 3 NI's last season and the level of play was questionable. Making the leap to 4 this year would already be a really huge deal for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Im sure Walter's has an internal limit to what he will pay Heenan. Everyone has the same cap but if Walters had cleared more 2015 cap space with his 2014 signings, he might be in a better position than some teams to "overpay". He said he will spend right to the cap so he clearly intends to be active in free agency. If Heenan is simply creating a value for himself, whats to say the Bombers dont offer $270, the Riders offer $280 and the Bombers counter with $290? Eventually someone has to blink. The question is who has the most cap space to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCn20 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I have awaited the day we would start debating about which quality OL we will keep, which ones we will let go, and how we will fit them all into the lineup for many years now. The nightmare seems like it is close to being at an end. To all my "Nash" brethren on the forum. Khristos Razhdayetsya Bigblue204 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Tricky part with Heenan is that Roughriders have so many 'non-contract' incentives from local businesses that its going to be tough to match, Winnipeg will have to offer a huge signing bonus - like $100k or more... I think Holmes is a much more realistic target - if you cut Morley and January, you cover Holmes $$... Import-Greaves-Picard-Holmes-Import (or Neufeld?) is a very good line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue204 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I have awaited the day we would start debating about which quality OL we will keep, which ones we will let go, and how we will fit them all into the lineup for many years now. The nightmare seems like it is close to being at an end. To all my "Nash" brethren on the forum. Kristos Rotsdayetsa Lets just hope MB's scheme sees some changes as well. Doublezero 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Im sure Walter's has an internal limit to what he will pay Heenan. Everyone has the same cap but if Walters had cleared more 2015 cap space with his 2014 signings, he might be in a better position than some teams to "overpay". He said he will spend right to the cap so he clearly intends to be active in free agency. If Heenan is simply creating a value for himself, whats to say the Bombers dont offer $270, the Riders offer $280 and the Bombers counter with $290? Eventually someone has to blink. The question is who has the most cap space to spend. Sure. But the Riders just freed up $175k of cap space while we just lost $195k. So there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCn20 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Im sure Walter's has an internal limit to what he will pay Heenan. Everyone has the same cap but if Walters had cleared more 2015 cap space with his 2014 signings, he might be in a better position than some teams to "overpay". He said he will spend right to the cap so he clearly intends to be active in free agency. If Heenan is simply creating a value for himself, whats to say the Bombers dont offer $270, the Riders offer $280 and the Bombers counter with $290? Eventually someone has to blink. The question is who has the most cap space to spend. Sure. But the Riders just freed up $175k of cap space while we just lost $195k. So there's that. The Riders have 28 FA's to sign and one of them is Dressler, so there is that as well. holoman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCn20 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Tricky part with Heenan is that Roughriders have so many 'non-contract' incentives from local businesses that its going to be tough to match, Winnipeg will have to offer a huge signing bonus - like $100k or more... I think Holmes is a much more realistic target - if you cut Morley and January, you cover Holmes $$... Import-Greaves-Picard-Holmes-Import (or Neufeld?) is a very good line Tricky part with Heenan is that Roughriders have so many 'non-contract' incentives from local businesses that its going to be tough to match, Winnipeg will have to offer a huge signing bonus - like $100k or more... I think Holmes is a much more realistic target - if you cut Morley and January, you cover Holmes $$... Import-Greaves-Picard-Holmes-Import (or Neufeld?) is a very good line It will take a lot of dollars to pry him away from his home and his farm. Still....he is entering FA for a reason. Likely it's to make the RIders pay top dollar for him. However, at the end of the day even this approach shows that he cares about the money. If he was content with the off-field stuff and the money was secondary his name would be on the dotted line already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue204 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Tricky part with Heenan is that Roughriders have so many 'non-contract' incentives from local businesses that its going to be tough to match, Winnipeg will have to offer a huge signing bonus - like $100k or more... I think Holmes is a much more realistic target - if you cut Morley and January, you cover Holmes $$... Import-Greaves-Picard-Holmes-Import (or Neufeld?) is a very good line Tricky part with Heenan is that Roughriders have so many 'non-contract' incentives from local businesses that its going to be tough to match, Winnipeg will have to offer a huge signing bonus - like $100k or more... I think Holmes is a much more realistic target - if you cut Morley and January, you cover Holmes $$... Import-Greaves-Picard-Holmes-Import (or Neufeld?) is a very good line It will take a lot of dollars to pry him away from his home and his farm. Still....he is entering FA for a reason. Likely it's to make the RIders pay top dollar for him. However, at the end of the day even this approach shows that he cares about the money. If he was content with the off-field stuff and the money was secondary his name would be on the dotted line already. Yeah I think he's looking to cash in and will go with the highest bidder. Regardless of where it is. It would likely only be for 2-3 seasons if that. So why not go for the cash!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCn20 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Tricky part with Heenan is that Roughriders have so many 'non-contract' incentives from local businesses that its going to be tough to match, Winnipeg will have to offer a huge signing bonus - like $100k or more... I think Holmes is a much more realistic target - if you cut Morley and January, you cover Holmes $$... Import-Greaves-Picard-Holmes-Import (or Neufeld?) is a very good line Tricky part with Heenan is that Roughriders have so many 'non-contract' incentives from local businesses that its going to be tough to match, Winnipeg will have to offer a huge signing bonus - like $100k or more... I think Holmes is a much more realistic target - if you cut Morley and January, you cover Holmes $$... Import-Greaves-Picard-Holmes-Import (or Neufeld?) is a very good line It will take a lot of dollars to pry him away from his home and his farm. Still....he is entering FA for a reason. Likely it's to make the RIders pay top dollar for him. However, at the end of the day even this approach shows that he cares about the money. If he was content with the off-field stuff and the money was secondary his name would be on the dotted line already. Yeah I think he's looking to cash in and will go with the highest bidder. Regardless of where it is. It would likely only be for 2-3 seasons if that. So why not go for the cash!?! I think the highest bidder will need to be considerably more than the Riders but his return to the Riders is far from set in stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpan85 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Was having beers with friends this summer and his brother was at the table with us. Apparently he was not happy with his rookie contract felt he was taking a home town discount even though he signed for more than Henoc got the year before as the #1 pick. Look for him to try to dash in on this contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbill2004 Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I prefer Heenan over Holmes because Heenan plays tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCn20 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Im sure Walter's has an internal limit to what he will pay Heenan. Everyone has the same cap but if Walters had cleared more 2015 cap space with his 2014 signings, he might be in a better position than some teams to "overpay". He said he will spend right to the cap so he clearly intends to be active in free agency. If Heenan is simply creating a value for himself, whats to say the Bombers dont offer $270, the Riders offer $280 and the Bombers counter with $290? Eventually someone has to blink. The question is who has the most cap space to spend. Sure. But the Riders just freed up $175k of cap space while we just lost $195k. So there's that. Not technically true. The Riders have to replace his NI roster spot with another NI. That eats into their salary cap space they have created. Even rookie or ham and egger NI's cost in the 100k range now. That leaves an actual amount of cap space being created at most around 100k for the Riders unless they replace his roster spot with a very weak NI that is willing to roster up for less. At the end of the day not all the salary lost can be attributed to free cap space. Also, this likely allows us to dump the salary of Hinse. Not sure what he makes but let's say conservatively that it was 90- 100k a year. Suddenly what appears to be a 400k sms swing due to this move turns out to be less than 200k....possibly much less depending on who the Riders sign as a replacement for Picard's roster spot and how much the OL we release was making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Sure, and the money is all hypothetical at this point of the season anyways, minus whatever bonuses have been paid out to players in the last 7 days. In general, Picard is making more than Morley so even if we cut Morley our cap space is less than what it would have been, and Saskatchewan's will be more than what it would have been. The idea that we have more money to offer than other teams is what I was disputing. It might be true. It might not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Dee Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 The area where those particular dollar savings is meant to be spent is certainly on the O-Line, where Walters has specifically targeted to improve this year. Walters seems intent, one way or another, of acquiring a certified "A" O-Lineman at this particular time and we may have the necessary resources to go after and acquire such a player. The fact we are even dreaming of acquiring Heenan is titillating, so say the very least, but the very fact we are targeting the O-Line for an A upgrade is comforting, both for us and Drew Willy. The spreadsheet of savings and spending regarding the O-Line has had too many debits in the past. Time to fix that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCn20 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Sure, and the money is all hypothetical at this point of the season anyways, minus whatever bonuses have been paid out to players in the last 7 days. In general, Picard is making more than Morley so even if we cut Morley our cap space is less than what it would have been, and Saskatchewan's will be more than what it would have been. The idea that we have more money to offer than other teams is what I was disputing. It might be true. It might not. Having money is not nearly as important as who has the most desire to spend money. Ways can be found to fit almost any purchase under the SMS if a GM has his heart set on a player bad enough. It might mean playing ham and eggers elsewhere in the lineup but if a GM wants to spend he will spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickem Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 IF we offer the kind of money that Lawless is saying we may/ should/could offer, then the riders are going to have a helluva job holding on to Heenan, no matter how many burger joints in Regina offer up as a signing incentive. Don't forget we have Bucks whole hog and Obies fare to tantalize the big o line guy. Regina has nothing on us...period.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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