Alex Hall and a 2nd round pick traded to Saskatchewan for Patrick Neufeld (OL) and a 4th round pick

re our 2014 picks, currently we got...

 

1 pick in round 1

0 pick in round 2  (lost to Ssk)

2 picks in round 3 (gain from Tor)

2 picks in round 4 (gain from Ssk)

0 pick in round 5 (lost to Tor)

2 picks in round 6 (gain from Edm)

1 pick in round 7

 

Reasons the draft pick means very little to me ... this is a pretty thin draft with the new eligibility rules so trading out of 2014 and into 2015 works for me. Not a huge fan of the two round drop but to me, that's what you pay for getting a 24 year old NI lineman who is signed through 2015.

I think it means more than that. Hall may not be a long term option in Saskatchewan but he holds value this year, and for them playing in the Grey Cup is priority #2 so from that standpoint they're getting one of the top defensive linemen to help acheive that goal, don't tell me there's no value there. The concerning part about this isn't that the 2nd round pick isn't all that valuable it's that Walters got taken advantage of of by Taman. Taman gets exactly what he wants, a top player for the rest of this year and a draft pick to replace the player he lost (and maybe lost to ottawa anyway?) Taman comes out looking real good, Walters gets a guy who is maybe an average player on a good day.... hardly the kind of thing he should be adding a pick for. Realy looks like he either made a trade for the sake of making it or got absolutely schooled in the negotiation of said trade, either way not a fan. 

walters can always move up on draft day. we have a bunch of middle rounds to package.

Take Hall out of the equation for a minute.

 

It's our second pick in 2014 for Neufeld and their pick in 2015.

Should we do that deal?

I would say so.

 

Trade deadline is Wed.

Hall would have no trade value for us as of then.

 

This reminds me of another GM who traded a body before Free Agency last Jan. 29 to get something of value.

 

Sask. benefits, but so do we.

So what do we think we get for muamba now?

He'll be re-signing here once the cba negotiation is over with.

Take Hall out of the equation for a minute.

 

It's our second pick in 2014 for Neufeld and their pick in 2015.

Should we do that deal?

I would say so.

 

Trade deadline is Wed.

Hall would have no trade value for us as of then.

 

This reminds me of another GM who traded a body before Free Agency last Jan. 29 to get something of value.

 

Sask. benefits, but so do we.

Taking Neufeld for a second pick? Nope not a chance. The man is going to be a journeyman player. Someone who in 3 years probvably won't be starting & the Riders may have a player we could have used playing & starting on their roster. We panicked & made the trade. Like I said earlier, I'd have been okay with a  one for one swap but we paid too high a price giving up our second round pick. If the Riders insisted on a draft pick, I'd have backed off. Maybe offered them Etienne or something. He's a bust.

he's essentially what you'd get with a 2nd round pick anyway, only difference is he's jump started in development.

oh the outcry of the armchair GMS.. the anguish and the rage..

a guy who is 24 and locked up for 3 years who can play tackle and maybe other spots on the line with a bit of footwork training... seems to me that in itself is normally a player picked in the second round IF your lucky and IF the player isnt a bust...

so we took the gamble out of drafting one oline prospect.. cost was the services of the league leading sack master for a few games and got a 4th rounder down the road...

i simply dont get the outrage.. hall is as good as gone and i think he sticks for a season down south.. and like mentioned before, whos to say we dont get him back if our fortunes have changed by then?

and if this is all about that second round pick then like i said before, we would be lucky to draft a kid like neufeld at that pick (regardless that he went in the 5th) and hes ahead of.the curve with all those games played..

My real concern in all this is that we just gave away a 2nd round pick that could have been packaged for a QB.  Now really we only have the 2nd pick overall to offer... or Muamba - hopefully not both...

 

We started shopping Hall for a 2nd round pick and a neg list player... we ended up paying more than we got - whether Hall is a rental or not.

 

If Walters holds out until Wednesday, I just think Taman would have blinked, he's dying for a cup.

 

Neufeld is not going to change this team.  

he's essentially what you'd get with a 2nd round pick anyway, only difference is he's jump started in development.

Yeah, I agree with that. Good observation.

oh the outcry of the armchair GMS.. the anguish and the rage..

a guy who is 24 and locked up for 3 years who can play tackle and maybe other spots on the line with a bit of footwork training... seems to me that in itself is normally a player picked in the second round IF your lucky and IF the player isnt a bust...

so we took the gamble out of drafting one oline prospect.. cost was the services of the league leading sack master for a few games and got a 4th rounder down the road...

i simply dont get the outrage.. hall is as good as gone and i think he sticks for a season down south.. and like mentioned before, whos to say we dont get him back if our fortunes have changed by then?

and if this is all about that second round pick then like i said before, we would be lucky to draft a kid like neufeld at that pick (regardless that he went in the 5th) and hes ahead of.the curve with all those games played..

We have no idea what it is going to take to pry a qb from a team this off season. A veteran player & a second round pick might have helped do it. Trading away a high draft pick so early won't help us find a qb later. All we're doing is handcuffing ourselves.

 

he's essentially what you'd get with a 2nd round pick anyway, only difference is he's jump started in development.

Yeah, I agree with that. Good observation.

 

 

 

Taking Neufeld for a second pick? Nope not a chance.

 

Haven't you completely contradicted yourself?

My real concern in all this is that we just gave away a 2nd round pick that could have been packaged for a QB.  Now really we only have the 2nd pick overall to offer... or Muamba - hopefully not both...

 

We started shopping Hall for a 2nd round pick and a neg list player... we ended up paying more than we got - whether Hall is a rental or not.

 

If Walters holds out until Wednesday, I just think Taman would have blinked, he's dying for a cup.

 

Neufeld is not going to change this team.  

 

... or picks in 2015. Or other assets.

 

A lot of people seem to think they know what our 'assets' are and what other GMs want from us. Who really knows.

walters can always move up on draft day. we have a bunch of middle rounds to package.

 

Very true, lots of short sightedness going on here, he moved up two rounds in the Parenteau deal but I don't recall much said about that, only that Parenteau was a bum. Maybe being our CIS scout, the guy just might have inkling on what he's doing. Parenteau, Foster and now Neufeld, maybe if we had drafted properly in the past, he wouldn't have to try to restock the cupboards now.

Saskatchewan got the best of us on this one, no question.  This time next year everyone is going to be complaining about what a turnstile Neufeld is.  

Besides QB the thing we need the most is NI o-linemen who can START RIGHT NOW. If we got that I'm ok with the trade but Neufeld has to be a solid starter, not a back up. As with all trades time will tell.

As long as picks are coming back your way in return, I don't know what all the fuss is about. There is no guarantee that a pick in any round is going to be better than the next.

Take Hall out of the equation for a minute.

 

 

 

you can't do that because he's the key piece to this trade because he is the best player in the trade. Doesn't matter if he was gone anyway, the idea behind making those trades is to give something that may be gone and get something, we gave that plus something that could have been a long term solution in the draft pick. If the 2nd round pick and Neufeld have similar value then why did we include hall in the first place? Sorry people but Walters got schooled by a veteran GM on this trade. Taman gets a key piece for a grey cup try AND a pick to mitigate the loss of NI depth (someone that maybe he loses in the expansion draft anyway) Walters gets a player who may or may not be better than some of the guys on his team anyway.... trade for the sake of making a trade and he displayed poor asset management. 

 

 

 

Yes because starting NI tackles are dropping from trees....right.

 

So any NI who started some games at tackle is a "starting NI tackle?"  There's no variability in quality?  Paul Swiston is therefore a NI starting tackle now.  That's about the level of player we're getting, so don't get your hopes up too high.  Neufeld has much to prove.

 

The only reason this trade isn't a total fleecing is because we dumped a 14 pick for a 15 one when there will be a full draft pool, but there's no way we should have had to give up 2 rounds in that swap.  Neufeld isn't a top 6 OL for the Riders and had very little chance of making their team next season regardless of Ottawa.  Should have been no need to sweeten the pot, and if it was insisted upon, play hardball.

 

 

Neufeld started 13 of 17 games in 2012 and the West-Semi...Pretty different from Paul Swiston's situation.  He occasionally breaks into our terrible starting line.

 

 

Steve Morley was a starting tackle for Calgary and started all of 2009 at tackle for us.  Not an indicator of ability, nor an indicator of current ability. 

 

Steve Morley was also a Number 1 pick so I guess that means that draft picks must be worthless as well.

But really, Morley would have been 28 or so in '09, Neufeld was starting in his second year in the league at 23. There's room for development here still. If you got a guy who is a 24 year old borderline starter in the draft in the second round you'd be pretty happy.

 

Take Hall out of the equation for a minute.

 

 

 

you can't do that because he's the key piece to this trade because he is the best player in the trade. Doesn't matter if he was gone anyway, the idea behind making those trades is to give something that may be gone and get something, we gave that plus something that could have been a long term solution in the draft pick. If the 2nd round pick and Neufeld have similar value then why did we include hall in the first place? Sorry people but Walters got schooled by a veteran GM on this trade. Taman gets a key piece for a grey cup try AND a pick to mitigate the loss of NI depth (someone that maybe he looses in the expansion draft anyway) Walters gets a player who may or may not be better than some of the guys on his team anyway.... trade for the sake of making a trade and he displayed poor asset management. 

 

The problem with this post is you're working under the false assumption you have any idea what Hall's trade value was around the league.

 

It was a good trade for the Riders, so what? We got value as well. Do you think whomever we took at 11 would be a candidate to start at RT next season? Probably not, & that guy would be right around the same age as who we just picked up.

 

 

Take Hall out of the equation for a minute.

 

 

 

you can't do that because he's the key piece to this trade because he is the best player in the trade. Doesn't matter if he was gone anyway, the idea behind making those trades is to give something that may be gone and get something, we gave that plus something that could have been a long term solution in the draft pick. If the 2nd round pick and Neufeld have similar value then why did we include hall in the first place? Sorry people but Walters got schooled by a veteran GM on this trade. Taman gets a key piece for a grey cup try AND a pick to mitigate the loss of NI depth (someone that maybe he looses in the expansion draft anyway) Walters gets a player who may or may not be better than some of the guys on his team anyway.... trade for the sake of making a trade and he displayed poor asset management. 

 

The problem with this post is you're working under the false assumption you have any idea what Hall's trade value was around the league.

 

if he has so little trade value that we have to pay the riders to take him then don't trade him! or just trade him for a late round pick! Terrible asset management and no amount of spinning from you guys will change that fact. 

 

and you know what, it's not unheard of for 2nd round picks to step in and start right away for teams. Didn't the stamps get a starting o-lineman in the 2nd round just this past draft? I question whether Neufeld is any better than guys like Swiston or Pencer, seems that the tackles who have trouble adjusting to guard and a team that uses 2 americans at tackle maybe should prioritize their targets a little better. 

 

Really the last trade that Walters made that everyone said was good was getting Foster and Foster hasn't done anything for this team except drop passes, at least that trade it was just player who needed to go for Foster and they didn't have to bribe the Lions with a quality draft pick. 

 

 

 

Take Hall out of the equation for a minute.

 

 

 

you can't do that because he's the key piece to this trade because he is the best player in the trade. Doesn't matter if he was gone anyway, the idea behind making those trades is to give something that may be gone and get something, we gave that plus something that could have been a long term solution in the draft pick. If the 2nd round pick and Neufeld have similar value then why did we include hall in the first place? Sorry people but Walters got schooled by a veteran GM on this trade. Taman gets a key piece for a grey cup try AND a pick to mitigate the loss of NI depth (someone that maybe he looses in the expansion draft anyway) Walters gets a player who may or may not be better than some of the guys on his team anyway.... trade for the sake of making a trade and he displayed poor asset management. 

 

The problem with this post is you're working under the false assumption you have any idea what Hall's trade value was around the league.

 

if he has so little trade value that we have to pay the riders to take him then don't trade him! or just trade him for a late round pick! Terrible asset management and no amount of spinning from you guys will change that fact. 

 

and you know what, it's not unheard of for 2nd round picks to step in and start right away for teams. Didn't the stamps get a starting o-lineman in the 2nd round just this past draft? I question whether Neufeld is any better than guys like Swiston or Pencer, seems that the tackles who have trouble adjusting to guard and a team that uses 2 americans at tackle maybe should prioritize their targets a little better. 

 

Really the last trade that Walters made that everyone said was good was getting Foster and Foster hasn't done anything for this team except drop passes, at least that trade it was just player who needed to go for Foster and they didn't have to bribe the Lions with a quality draft pick. 

 

Oh! so now you're seeing that your argument is not the only valid one...so now you want to package the Foster trade as a negative for Walters. That's just lame!

 

 

 

 

Take Hall out of the equation for a minute.

 

 

 

you can't do that because he's the key piece to this trade because he is the best player in the trade. Doesn't matter if he was gone anyway, the idea behind making those trades is to give something that may be gone and get something, we gave that plus something that could have been a long term solution in the draft pick. If the 2nd round pick and Neufeld have similar value then why did we include hall in the first place? Sorry people but Walters got schooled by a veteran GM on this trade. Taman gets a key piece for a grey cup try AND a pick to mitigate the loss of NI depth (someone that maybe he looses in the expansion draft anyway) Walters gets a player who may or may not be better than some of the guys on his team anyway.... trade for the sake of making a trade and he displayed poor asset management. 

 

The problem with this post is you're working under the false assumption you have any idea what Hall's trade value was around the league.

 

if he has so little trade value that we have to pay the riders to take him then don't trade him! or just trade him for a late round pick! Terrible asset management and no amount of spinning from you guys will change that fact. 

 

and you know what, it's not unheard of for 2nd round picks to step in and start right away for teams. Didn't the stamps get a starting o-lineman in the 2nd round just this past draft? I question whether Neufeld is any better than guys like Swiston or Pencer, seems that the tackles who have trouble adjusting to guard and a team that uses 2 americans at tackle maybe should prioritize their targets a little better. 

 

Really the last trade that Walters made that everyone said was good was getting Foster and Foster hasn't done anything for this team except drop passes, at least that trade it was just player who needed to go for Foster and they didn't have to bribe the Lions with a quality draft pick. 

 

Oh! so now you're seeing that your argument is not the only valid one...so now you want to package the Foster trade as a negative for Walters. That's just lame!

 

No I'm not saying that the foster trade is a bad one, I'm saying that it was only good because it was player for player. If it had been Buck Pierce and a 2nd round pick for Foster and a 4th round pick it'd be just as bad cause Foster hasn't done anything to stand out from what we already have at the position. Will Neufeld be able to stand out ahead of the guys already on the team? We're already loaded with guys drafted as tackles who haven't adjusted to guard and we use 2 imports at guard so is this really the best use of assets? I say no. One for one the trade is fine, having to add to make it happen not a good trade. 

if he has so little trade value that we have to pay the riders to take him then don't trade him! or just trade him for a late round pick! Terrible asset management and no amount of spinning from you guys will change that fact. 

 

That's basically what we did. Neufeld for a 2nd rounder & Hall for a 4th rounder. Your previous post allowed for the fact that Neufeld & a 2nd rounder are equal value, so what's the problem?