First things first, I usually don't put too much into reffing and use as excuse, but last night was pretty bad. I'm more referring to the Ref's glee and happiness in announcing a Bomber penalty that had a big impact, more than all the non calls...but that was bad as well....and he has done that versus us several times...You are taught to keep emotions in check especially as the head ref and not show any kind of bias or what could be construed as such...I know nothing by league will be done or said about it but a fine or getting yanked for a few games should be in order

What started as actual optimism, and maybe a sense that we (coaching) have finally got it was short lived. and pretty much smoke and mirrors until the Edm coaching analyzed our game plan and made the changes to counter it....and we did not...again. Not a one off...it's a theme, and to beat the ol dead horse again but coaching (or the lack of) is our issue and it looks as if many are finally seeing it....Post game interview with Osh agian shows a total lack of...well anything...has no clue...his excuses are getting old and by game 10 should not be an issue anymore....just sad

Last game, we sorta rediscovered our offensive identity...that aligned with earlier wins, and our trademark in the distant ago glory yrs...we came out firing...actually expanded on it...did some real good thigs with the oline to make it even better...then just went totally away from it, or did anything unique off of it and went almost the whole second half before getting a single 1st down.

Now why the heck does the HC...Who has a headset on...a play sheet in front of him...has obviously been watching the game (i hope) not get on his headset and say "what the eff are you doing...get back to what was working" Just utter incompetence.... obliviousness to what's going on (you can see it on the sidelines with his clueless looks) and a lack of guts to get in a coach's face not too mention any player's...too concerned with nice guy vibes and not wanting to hurt any feelings or show doubt's....a very weak coach, and it foster's a whole lotta weak play....he show's no accountability, is asking for none....and a lot of the player's play with little...they know they safe....coaches too...I asked a buddy who was there to tell me the vibes on the Bomber sideline, and what he saw...Told me same ol Bomber sideline...too much casual attitudes...happy faces...nobody really coaching anyone up or getting in anyone's face ...no sense of any urgency or anger...Just the same ol same ol....what a shock

Our receiving group...putrid and won't take us anywhere...how much more do we need to see? Like really...What is making Osh Justify running Cobb and Nield out there?...Same with Daniels...Who for a shitkicker got trucked pretty easily on several blocking responsivities...again...Right on cue they basically did what they been doing all yr...combined gave us 4 catches for 36 yards. Not gonna be very successful when 1/2 your receiving group gives you those numbers....and wasnt just a matter of that the game flow dictated that...go back and look at their combined production over all 10 and see...its what they do...and for funnsies add in Corcoran's 6 games to it, and instead of an extra guy making it a bit better...makes it even worse...But what would you expect for a guy who would prob not make a JUCO roster

Also lost in this is Clercius who "apparently" loafed on a play gets benched and has hardly seen field since for Corcorran of all people,,,He basically catches every ball (85%) career catch rate and actually does his job in the blocking (Nield is the offense version of kelly/holm) who play like pre-pubescent girls...no offence to pre-pubescent girls but you all know what I mean...plus how many brutal drops now??

If he was being "punished" or demoted as a reason to get a bee under his saddle I think its time to flip flop him and Neild..cant be any worse than his 2 catches a game for 30 yards nonsense...at least we know he will make some blocks...

Based on post game interview...and actually you can see it now on the field but ZC is visibly frustrated with this group...basically called out some players without calling them out when pressed on some of the plays in his interview...he see's it...we see it...Coaching see's nothing...Interesting enough in the tail end of the broadcast Taylor and Brown said

that we need to do something with that group...and that there's a couple options available that we could bring in and haven't and no reason for not doing so....and also that we are not even maximizing what we have in house....another tidbit was that yes Osh refuses to use the Nationlized American rule cause he "doesn't like it" and that it is actually not benefitting us with him not using it...like what kind of a HC put's his bias ahead of the team...Smuggsy does...thats who....and it's painfully obvious in a lot of areas and should not ever happen...EVER...but here we are

We aint going anywhere anytime soon with Osh and his ways....not happening....and sadly this first quarter dominance is just gonna justify him to make no changes....cause we watched the film once again and figured it out...yeah right

The only change I see happening is if Nichols cant go....the smart move would be to Start Vaval, as he can keep up with MTL receivers...in Nichols spot bring in Texada I guess as that's all we have hanging around for DB coverage and Stuart for Novack... and drop Hazen for Singer who will serve a dual purpose...Inject some life into the WR group and give ZC another legit option and maybe open up some space and also help on returns...But that makes too much sense

Knowing osh tho...will prob bump Kelly to halfback, Start Hallett at safety and dress Jenkins for Nichols as ...well he's been here for 2 yrs

Discuss...................

Edited August 22Aug 22 by Booch

2 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

A million to a million five would probably buy these two turkeys out. We're flush with money & never use it. Well, use it at the end of the season. Just get rid of them.

No reason to wait. The season is lost to all intents and purposes, and there is a point to be made.

25 minutes ago, Tracker said:

No reason to wait. The season is lost to all intents and purposes, and there is a point to be made.

No, disagree. Do the housecleaning in November. There really is no point now. Let the season play out. However, we all know that it won't happen.

Edited August 24Aug 24 by SpeedFlex27

1 hour ago, Booch said:

soft scheme...and zero DB aggresion...Just let play come to them as opposed to actually making a play on a ball...passive play not to lose approach...or play with risk....but it's killing us

Is this stat tracked anywhere?... I would love to know what our record is against 2nd and long this year... I think it was the first drive of the second half in this game where Edm almost converted 3 consecutive 2nd and longs (the shortest was 2nd and 8, and one they got 13 yards on 2nd and 14, then easily converted the 3rd and 1)... the only reason they didn't get the 3rd is because the receiver dropped the ball

21 minutes ago, bearpants said:

Is this stat tracked anywhere?... I would love to know what our record is against 2nd and long this year... I think it was the first drive of the second half in this game where Edm almost converted 3 consecutive 2nd and longs (the shortest was 2nd and 8, and one they got 13 yards on 2nd and 14, then easily converted the 3rd and 1)... the only reason they didn't get the 3rd is because the receiver dropped the ball

You are in luck!

Going into Week 12 the Bombers opponents were 39/110 for a success rate 35.5 percent at 2nd and 7+, which was good for 3rd in the league behind Saskatchewan and BC.

The 2nd and 14 you mentioned wouldnt count as a success in your stat, and the Bombers were 13/15 on 3rd and 0-2 which is 7th in the league.

35.5% is historically better than average for a defense, back to 2023.

FWIW the Bombers are above average in preventing TDs in the red zone, below average in preventing TD drives overall, and exactly average at forcing 2 and outs (although they are RiGHT THERE for a 3 way tie for 3rd)

4 minutes ago, ShyGuy said:

You are in luck!

Going into Week 12 the Bombers opponents were 39/110 for a success rate 35.5 percent at 2nd and 7+, which was good for 3rd in the league behind Saskatchewan and BC.

The 2nd and 14 you mentioned wouldnt count as a success in your stat, and the Bombers were 13/15 on 3rd and 0-2 which is 7th in the league.

35.5% is historically better than average for a defense, back to 2023.

FWIW the Bombers are above average in preventing TDs in the red zone, below average in preventing TD drives overall, and exactly average at forcing 2 and outs (although they are RiGHT THERE for a 3 way tie for 3rd)

Thanks for this... I figured the stats wouldn't necessarily align with the "feel" of it... in that example drive, it "felt like" the Bombers gave up 3 consecutive 2nd and long conversations... but in reality, it was 1/3

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

No, disagree. Do the housecleaning in November. There really is no point now. Let the season play out. However, we all know that it won't happen.

I think OC/DC will go... I can't imagine they can O'Shea and Walters.

Not that I want this but do the Bombers have the option of using the "Mulligan" rule that the league gives you on coaching hires that didn't work out (in order for the team to get out of the contract without it impacting the cap)...?

I honestly just learned that this was a thing yesterday when Naylor talked about it on TSN re: Shawn Burke....

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Not that I want this but do the Bombers have the option of using the "Mulligan" rule that the league gives you on coaching hires that didn't work out (in order for the team to get out of the contract without it impacting the cap)...?

I honestly just learned that this was a thing yesterday when Naylor talked about it on TSN re: Shawn Burke....

OF coursethey do...why wouldnt they...and yes invoke the snot outta it

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Not that I want this but do the Bombers have the option of using the "Mulligan" rule that the league gives you on coaching hires that didn't work out (in order for the team to get out of the contract without it impacting the cap)...?

I honestly just learned that this was a thing yesterday when Naylor talked about it on TSN re: Shawn Burke....

Yes, they do. But if we buy out their contracts, I don't know how that affects the admin cap.

For the record I just play devils advocate sometimes. The issues with coaching has been clear a while now. Very clear. Starting with the marine who wasted a spot. But I don’t see any changes happening right now. I could see Tommy or JY bring sacrificed tho

The players ain’t innocent tho. They are the ones dropping passes or missing tackles. I don’t think the game plan involves drops and missed tackles. With that said, you bring in new players and replace the struggling ones. O’Shea talks about his vets but doesn’t realize the vets outside of 3 maybe 4 or 5 are the problem.

I also have no issue with starting Canadians in the Canadian football league but when you barely have the talent (we don’t) to start the minimum, why the **** are we starting more than we need. Just coaching. I’m not sure that extra American makes a difference but playing extra Canadians don’t. Wow a 2nd rd pick.

Edited August 24Aug 24 by Goalie

5 hours ago, bearpants said:

Thanks for this... I figured the stats wouldn't necessarily align with the "feel" of it... in that example drive, it "felt like" the Bombers gave up 3 consecutive 2nd and long conversations... but in reality, it was 1/3

There are lies, damned lies and there are statistics. Giving up yardage is one thing, but giving it up in critical situations is quite another. I believe it is called choking.

Big time players make big time plays...in big time situations...a talented guy said that here once and we lowballed his ass he just said eff it and retired as he didnt want to play anywhere else..Sask and CGY offered him deals but he declined

Our defence hasn't had the same fire/intensity since he left either

52 minutes ago, Booch said:

Big time players make big time plays...in big time situations...a talented guy said that here once and we lowballed his ass he just said eff it and retired as he didnt want to play anywhere else..Sask and CGY offered him deals but he declined

Our defence hasn't had the same fire/intensity since he left either

Yeah, Jeffcoat was the best player on D many times, and it usually wasn't even close.

3 hours ago, Tracker said:

There are lies, damned lies and there are statistics. Giving up yardage is one thing, but giving it up in critical situations is quite another. I believe it is called choking.

So I guess the thesis here is statistically, the Bombers are poor in high leverage situations?

Last game was bad for that stat (2nd and long conversion rate) for the Bombers, Elks were 6/11 and the Bombers were 1/7... but Football is such a low event game you are for sure going to remember the plays with the negative outcomes.

Look at the 4th quarter... play #104, Fajardo gets 14 yards on 2nd and 10 to the 27, Elks are driving into the end zone after scoring 16 straight points (and the Bombers don't have a 1st down in the second half at this point); incredibly un-clutch. But wait, 3 plays later 2nd and 11 Fajardo gets flushed by the d-line and coughs up the ball, the boys locked in and came up with the clutch turnover. Bombers proceed to do nothing with it (again un-clutch but on the offense this time) and give it back to the Elks with a 2 and out and with a short field Fajardo dips and dunks it into the 30 for the go ahead field goal. Bombers finally get a first down but then Collaros arm punts it down to the 7. Short run by Rankin gets a 2nd and long and the Bombers force an incompletion 2nd and 8 to get the offense the ball back inside the 3 minute warning (again, very clutch). The Bombers burn a whole 62 seconds getting the tying field goal. Elks have 1:41 to win the game and probably the most frustrating play here is the 2nd and 3rd when Rankin catches the ball at the 40 with 4 Bombers between him and the first down, and Woodbey just goes flat footed and then Major Williams just kind of inexplicably blows up BOO (note: not the ball carrier at this point) and Rankin sneaks through all those bodies for 16 yards... and Ceresna (not one of the 4 games in the picture at the time of the catch) is the one who chases him down. And then 2nd and 10 the defense plays it pretty well and Luther catches it at the 43 (well short of the first down) and Moxey just whiffs on the tackle and instead of Blanchard kicking a 50 yard field goal (which is still inside his range) he is now kicking a 40 yarder which is much easier.

If the Offense could have done almost anything more than the... 5 net yards they got after that 2 and out we are probably talking about how the defense bailed out the offense after that disaster class of a 2nd half.

It's probably useful data that of the 4 games so far this season where the winning team had less than 25 points, 3 of them involved the Bombers.

There is really no reason for me being argumentative about this other than I deal with Statistics quite a bit and the overall... attitude in general towards them is always quite amusing. If you want to use statistics to make the Bombers defense as currently constructed seem underrated, we can probably do that. If you want to use the same statistics to show that the Bombers beating the RedBlacks twice were the 2 games in 100 that should have happened we can probably show that as well.

13 hours ago, Tracker said:

There are lies, damned lies and there are statistics. Giving up yardage is one thing, but giving it up in critical situations is quite another. I believe it is called choking.

to me, giving up 13 yards on 2nd and 14 is absolutely blowing a 2nd and long situation... the stats just don't show it like that... that was my point

Bombers offensive co-ordinator Condell takes accountability for loss to Elks

Well that was easy. Problem solved. Get your Grey Cup tickets right meow.

48 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Bombers offensive co-ordinator Condell takes accountability for loss to Elks

Well that was easy. Problem solved. Get your Grey Cup tickets right meow.

Easy to say, "Blame me..." Then what, if nothing changes??? How the blinkety blank did Osh win 130 games????

Yeah. Honestly. I think I saw the O had like 35 net yards the entire 2nd half. That’s pretty bad. Like worse than hogan bad. Pretty tough to blame the D when they give up like 2 tds and 3 fgs. Thats a pretty solid game for any D this season. 22 points. Yeah. The O is garbage for sure. Don’t need stats to show that either but 35 yards is a stat nobody should have in 1 half of football.

11 hours ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Bombers offensive co-ordinator Condell takes accountability for loss to Elks

Well that was easy. Problem solved. Get your Grey Cup tickets right meow.

11 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Easy to say, "Blame me..." Then what, if nothing changes??? How the blinkety blank did Osh win 130 games????

Maybe the HC should take notice....and realize as well that he needs to show accountability as well...Not yip yap the same crap "we good"..."just fine tuning"..."we there"...'we where we wanna be"...."just need to look at the film and fix it"..."Just a few communication issues but guys know what has to be done"..."He's here cause he gives us a chance to win"..."They all starters"..."If you look at his film from years ago, you can see the success he's capable of" and my all time favorite load of horseshit and a guy with zero clue...let alone accountability "we just got tired"

Did I miss any? I'm sure I have...I need to get a tshirt printed up with that all across the back and his dumb face on the front and sport it around the stadium on game day

36 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Yeah. Honestly. I think I saw the O had like 35 net yards the entire 2nd half.

No need to use hyperbole to get your points across.

It wasn't something ridiculous like 35, it was 14. You more than doubled it!

Drives went 3 yards, -8 yards, 1 yard (this might be 6 yards because the game stats seem conflicted if the time count counts), 13 yards, and 5 yards.

2 first downs if you are keeping track at home, at 5:12 and 2:43 in the 4th quarter

56 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Yeah. Honestly. I think I saw the O had like 35 net yards the entire 2nd half. That’s pretty bad. Like worse than hogan bad. Pretty tough to blame the D when they give up like 2 tds and 3 fgs. Thats a pretty solid game for any D this season. 22 points. Yeah. The O is garbage for sure. Don’t need stats to show that either but 35 yards is a stat nobody should have in 1 half of football.

Honestly, the O isn't bad. You don't put up 300+ yards in 30 minutes if your bad. That 2nd half was once again all on the play calling. RB has over 100 yards from scrimmage and then you just refuse to use him again? Or the 2 times you do, it's predictable. Condell has been a complete bust this year, at least with Hogan he had the excuse of being a rookie OC who could get better. Condell is too experienced to be making the choices he is, and to be getting completely out classed game in and game out.

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

Honestly, the O isn't bad. You don't put up 300+ yards in 30 minutes if your bad. That 2nd half was once again all on the play calling. RB has over 100 yards from scrimmage and then you just refuse to use him again? Or the 2 times you do, it's predictable. Condell has been a complete bust this year, at least with Hogan he had the excuse of being a rookie OC who could get better. Condell is too experienced to be making the choices he is, and to be getting completely out classed game in and game out.

2nd down play calling was... Questionable at best in the second half

2nd and 4, BO gets them second and manageable and Demski tries to run it up the middle but ends in a 3 yard loss

2nd and 10 after a 16 yard down field incompletion that Collaros sailed and it's a sack

2nd and 4 after a short pass to Wilson on their own 22 and Collaros launches a 37 yard bomb to Wilson that leads him out of bounds

2nd and 8 after the most telegraphed run ever, which Willson had called out before the snap and it's a short pass to Nield who turns it up field for a first down!

2nd and 10 two plays later and Collaros launches it 50 yards down field for a pick

2nd and 9 after Collaros got flushed on first down and a sack and the Bombers don't see the ball again

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

Honestly, the O isn't bad. You don't put up 300+ yards in 30 minutes if your bad. That 2nd half was once again all on the play calling. RB has over 100 yards from scrimmage and then you just refuse to use him again? Or the 2 times you do, it's predictable. Condell has been a complete bust this year, at least with Hogan he had the excuse of being a rookie OC who could get better. Condell is too experienced to be making the choices he is, and to be getting completely out classed game in and game out.

same can and should be said about the HC

If he can't see this himself and step in and say/demand something of his subordinates, or take over a bit in the game himself...Or if he does and they dont listen and he just ho hum's it like he usually does on the sideline....then that in itself should be a fireable thing...cause he has zero control and or ability to take it...let alone adjust or making any required changes

3 minutes ago, ShyGuy said:

2nd down play calling was... Questionable at best in the second half

2nd and 4, BO gets them second and manageable and Demski tries to run it up the middle but ends in a 3 yard loss

2nd and 10 after a 16 yard down field incompletion that Collaros sailed and it's a sack

2nd and 4 after a short pass to Wilson on their own 22 and Collaros launches a 37 yard bomb to Wilson that leads him out of bounds

2nd and 8 after the most telegraphed run ever, which Willson had called out before the snap and it's a short pass to Nield who turns it up field for a first down!

2nd and 10 two plays later and Collaros launches it 50 yards down field for a pick

2nd and 9 after Collaros got flushed on first down and a sack and the Bombers don't see the ball again

Why does your posting need to be so negative 😀

6 hours ago, Rich said:

Why does your posting need to be so negative 😀

Reality has a negative bias 🤣