First things first, I usually don't put too much into reffing and use as excuse, but last night was pretty bad. I'm more referring to the Ref's glee and happiness in announcing a Bomber penalty that had a big impact, more than all the non calls...but that was bad as well....and he has done that versus us several times...You are taught to keep emotions in check especially as the head ref and not show any kind of bias or what could be construed as such...I know nothing by league will be done or said about it but a fine or getting yanked for a few games should be in order

What started as actual optimism, and maybe a sense that we (coaching) have finally got it was short lived. and pretty much smoke and mirrors until the Edm coaching analyzed our game plan and made the changes to counter it....and we did not...again. Not a one off...it's a theme, and to beat the ol dead horse again but coaching (or the lack of) is our issue and it looks as if many are finally seeing it....Post game interview with Osh agian shows a total lack of...well anything...has no clue...his excuses are getting old and by game 10 should not be an issue anymore....just sad

Last game, we sorta rediscovered our offensive identity...that aligned with earlier wins, and our trademark in the distant ago glory yrs...we came out firing...actually expanded on it...did some real good thigs with the oline to make it even better...then just went totally away from it, or did anything unique off of it and went almost the whole second half before getting a single 1st down.

Now why the heck does the HC...Who has a headset on...a play sheet in front of him...has obviously been watching the game (i hope) not get on his headset and say "what the eff are you doing...get back to what was working" Just utter incompetence.... obliviousness to what's going on (you can see it on the sidelines with his clueless looks) and a lack of guts to get in a coach's face not too mention any player's...too concerned with nice guy vibes and not wanting to hurt any feelings or show doubt's....a very weak coach, and it foster's a whole lotta weak play....he show's no accountability, is asking for none....and a lot of the player's play with little...they know they safe....coaches too...I asked a buddy who was there to tell me the vibes on the Bomber sideline, and what he saw...Told me same ol Bomber sideline...too much casual attitudes...happy faces...nobody really coaching anyone up or getting in anyone's face ...no sense of any urgency or anger...Just the same ol same ol....what a shock

Our receiving group...putrid and won't take us anywhere...how much more do we need to see? Like really...What is making Osh Justify running Cobb and Nield out there?...Same with Daniels...Who for a shitkicker got trucked pretty easily on several blocking responsivities...again...Right on cue they basically did what they been doing all yr...combined gave us 4 catches for 36 yards. Not gonna be very successful when 1/2 your receiving group gives you those numbers....and wasnt just a matter of that the game flow dictated that...go back and look at their combined production over all 10 and see...its what they do...and for funnsies add in Corcoran's 6 games to it, and instead of an extra guy making it a bit better...makes it even worse...But what would you expect for a guy who would prob not make a JUCO roster

Also lost in this is Clercius who "apparently" loafed on a play gets benched and has hardly seen field since for Corcorran of all people,,,He basically catches every ball (85%) career catch rate and actually does his job in the blocking (Nield is the offense version of kelly/holm) who play like pre-pubescent girls...no offence to pre-pubescent girls but you all know what I mean...plus how many brutal drops now??

If he was being "punished" or demoted as a reason to get a bee under his saddle I think its time to flip flop him and Neild..cant be any worse than his 2 catches a game for 30 yards nonsense...at least we know he will make some blocks...

Based on post game interview...and actually you can see it now on the field but ZC is visibly frustrated with this group...basically called out some players without calling them out when pressed on some of the plays in his interview...he see's it...we see it...Coaching see's nothing...Interesting enough in the tail end of the broadcast Taylor and Brown said

that we need to do something with that group...and that there's a couple options available that we could bring in and haven't and no reason for not doing so....and also that we are not even maximizing what we have in house....another tidbit was that yes Osh refuses to use the Nationlized American rule cause he "doesn't like it" and that it is actually not benefitting us with him not using it...like what kind of a HC put's his bias ahead of the team...Smuggsy does...thats who....and it's painfully obvious in a lot of areas and should not ever happen...EVER...but here we are

We aint going anywhere anytime soon with Osh and his ways....not happening....and sadly this first quarter dominance is just gonna justify him to make no changes....cause we watched the film once again and figured it out...yeah right

The only change I see happening is if Nichols cant go....the smart move would be to Start Vaval, as he can keep up with MTL receivers...in Nichols spot bring in Texada I guess as that's all we have hanging around for DB coverage and Stuart for Novack... and drop Hazen for Singer who will serve a dual purpose...Inject some life into the WR group and give ZC another legit option and maybe open up some space and also help on returns...But that makes too much sense

Knowing osh tho...will prob bump Kelly to halfback, Start Hallett at safety and dress Jenkins for Nichols as ...well he's been here for 2 yrs

Discuss...................

Edited August 22Aug 22 by Booch

1 hour ago, Booch said:

We forgot about the adjusting aspect..or adapting to the game nuances..next week we come out looking like 45 rookies...but adjust in 2nd half when the game is out of reach? Lol

Like ive said..our main ailment which has caused us to choke in 3 Grey cups..and look continually worse and worse over the last 2 yrs...is coaching..100 percent certain u fix that...and we look alot different

While I agree that coaching is a major issue with this team, another (major?) contributing factor is the lack of quality Canucks in starting positions. Sure, Demski and Oliveira are fine but at safety and other receiver spots, not so fine. We are a team of very good ST players (Canadians in particular), on O and D not so much.

1 hour ago, Slimy Sculpin said:

While I agree that coaching is a major issue with this team, another (major?) contributing factor is the lack of quality Canucks in starting positions. Sure, Demski and Oliveira are fine but at safety and other receiver spots, not so fine. We are a team of very good ST players (Canadians in particular), on O and D not so much.

and he continually thinks that starting 9...even 10 is making us our best version....make that make sense

With what we have seen with Kelly ...in what 3...4 games now at safety? The fact he hasn't back end rostered Stuart who killed it on teams before he got pulled...not sure why....and is a real promising DB and gave him reps there in a game I bet it would become pretty apparent...much like Smith that he should be on the field.

But instead he rosters 2 linebackers...one of whom is wasting a DA spot who play some teams...and thats it...solid rostering

16 minutes ago, Booch said:

We forgot about the adjusting aspect..or adapting to the game nuances..next week we come out looking like 45 rookies...but adjust in 2nd half when the game is out of reach? Lol

Like ive said..our main ailment which has caused us to choke in 3 Grey cups..and look continually worse and worse over the last 2 yrs...is coaching..100 percent certain u fix that...and we look alot different

The Bombers have gone from the premiere organization in the CFL to a dysfunctional one. friends hiring friends. Whether it's wade Miller giving new deals to walters & Osh when it wasn't deserving or Osh giving former players like Mike Miller & jake Thomas coaching jobs with no experience to being extremely slow to adapt & change. The drop in the past two seasons & counting has been dramatic to say the least. The only way to stop this is to fire O'Shea & his Coordinators as I mentioned previously. The way this team reacts to adversity at the management level, it'll never happen. Everybody will keep their jobs no matter how bad the team does. I have no hope of this changing.

1 hour ago, Slimy Sculpin said:

While I agree that coaching is a major issue with this team, another (major?) contributing factor is the lack of quality Canucks in starting positions. Sure, Demski and Oliveira are fine but at safety and other receiver spots, not so fine. We are a team of very good ST players (Canadians in particular), on O and D not so much.

That's on Walters. Totally on him. The Canadian draft is supposed to be his strength.

Usually GMs get to fire one coach but with MOS+KW being so intertwined, you have to let both go, don't you?

2 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

Usually GMs get to fire one coach but with MOS+KW being so intertwined, you have to let both go, don't you?

Realistically, if we let both go, we would have to either promote from within or find someone willing to work for a low salary and do both jobs. So I don't think both will go any time soon.

Walters would be easy enough to replace internally, but we don't really have a viable candidate on the coaching staff.

Here are a couple of scenarios that could take place.

During season

Low-hanging fruit event. Mos fired, Walters takes HC gig, Jauch becomes interim GM, Deslauriers AGM.

Even lower-hanging fruit. Mos stays, Walters fired, Same with Jauch/Deslauriers.

Hail Mary-level event. Mos fired; maybe Lapo comes in out of the blue, or maybe Hall has half a season as HC in him.

After the season.

Walters takes HC and GM role, brings in another AGM.

Mos takes Hc and GM role, the usual suspects at AGM, league vet like Lapo comes in as assistant above the COs.

Mos out, Lapo or Buck come in; front office stays the same.

Mos stays with a HC in waiting like Lapo, Walters out for Danny.

I don't think any of these are great options, but with the coaching cap and the 3 year deals for mos/walters, I don't think a great option exists or will exist no matter who is available.

Here are some of the lower-impact moves I'd like to see transpire. Hall retires, and another senior defensive mind is brought in to refine JY. I still believe JY can be refined into an excellent coach with high potential. This year has been a mess, but if he can learn from it he can still go far.

Marty becomes run game CO, and another bright offensive mind is brought in to be passing game co and OC. Someone from outside of the usual lineages who isn't going to run an archaic form of the West Coast offense.

Either Mos is fired, or Walters is replaced with someone who will be firm as his boss in the GM spot.

We've tried nothing and apparently are out of ideas.

@wbbfan , great post about potential options. It will be interesting to see what transpires.

Just now, rebusrankin said:

@wbbfan , great post about potential options. It will be interesting to see what transpires.

Thanks. I would still suspect the primary outcome will be no major change; Mac and Hall move on in the offseason. We will see what the appetite is around the mafia for struggling though.

Osh in sny gm capacity and final say in player signing/releasing would be kiss of death and we would be even worse than we are now with badically no hope

The cap thing isnt as big an issue as many think..especially if you just can coach...mid season just interm someone...end of yr find the replacement...we can get out of his salary 2 ways...the previously mentioned escape allowed once...or he signs elsewhere which I sure would happen..and even if not for a yr..so be it..if there's the will there's a way

He's ran his course here..it happens to every successful.. formerly successful coach

MOS knows what the problems are; he's just refusing to do anything about them.

3 yrs running...its oshea way or no way...time to hit the hiway

3 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Thanks. I would still suspect the primary outcome will be no major change; Mac and Hall move on in the offseason. We will see what the appetite is around the mafia for struggling though.

Very slow to change & adapt.

If the 2nd half of the season is played out like the 1st, then I think it is time to overhaul the whole coaching staff. Maybe a new coaching staff will not play favoritism with a lot of the vets & instead put in players that might be more deserving with an opportunity to showcase their talents.

In-season change is not happening.

Maybe something happens after the season if, and only if, the team misses the playoffs.

5 minutes ago, Atomic said:

In-season change is not happening.

Maybe something happens after the season if, and only if, the team misses the playoffs.

The ONLY successful move is to fire both Walters and Osh. Leaving either behind is keeping half the problem and we will see zero success. Walters cannot manage his HC, and his HC knows it....as will any other coach hired.

we dont know that tho...So to upset the apple cart totally could be catastrophic...Maybe osh is just a arrogant prick behind the facade? Not saying that's the issue...but could be....And the way he reacts sometimes when challenged in media would lead one to maybe think that

I agree tho in season swap this yr won't happen...but end of yr dismissal may. I thik the prudent move is to use elimination in steps...if steps are needed...And more often than not save for a true dumpster fire...The HC goes first...In pretty much any sport and circumstance...Guess we will see

Coaches get stale...message starts to not land, and some just don't evolve. GM duties for most part are what they are...Walters for most part has done well in navigating the SMS pretty much since he started and the overall running of the club...Pooching both is just not the smart move...Thats the desperation move..we arent desperate yet

Here’s the thing

Firing Walters does nothing right now. Like it’s business as usual really and possibly worse if McManus is gm in the future , just no there. Just a gut feeling he’d be awful. Other options yes like the Canadian crew but it does nothing to the product on the field.

Firing O’Shea fixes the O’Shea problem but the Tommy problem is still around, the Younger problem is around. I mean after the collapse both our coordinators can go really. If O’Shea goes then Tommy and younger need to also. That does stuff to the on field product. Thing is tho, you need the gm to have that guy in waiting ( call him lapolice) unless it’s Jake , ppl might laugh but he’d be cheaper. So Kyle needs to stay. I’m not overly sure the talent Kyle has brought in is sufficient or not, some haven’t had a proper chance. So, it’s O’Shea and the coaches. Hall sticks around as interim DC for remainder of season as a favour to lapolice then retires.

You can then reevaluate Kyle in the off season and see cuz I’d treat the rest of this season as an extended 27 training camp. That means no Zach no Stan no Kyrie etc. 6 gamed.

And I’m not sure if that talent is sufficient because they all sit on the pr or dress and don’t play. And that’s on O’Shea and the other coaches.

Kyle when he goes after FAs is solid. Kyle when we have a higher 1st is a solid draft guy. All the guys I would like to see play are guys Kyle brought in, Kyle and the scouts. The guys who I think are very good are all mainly Walters signings or draft picks (or scouts)

Demski. Broxton. Brady. Willie was a FA signing. Reese Has some skill. Woodbey is solid. Smith is a drafted Canadian. Williams has been ok as a rookie, the other 3 can be 6 gamed.

Edited August 24Aug 24 by Goalie

I’m looking at 27. Yes I would bring Willie back as my D vet. And nobody on O cuz we got Brady Demski and broxton at this point.

Gotta figure out the Oline.

Get Stan out. Get Neufeld out. Get Elsbury out. Insert Vanty. Insert Vibert. Insert poncious???

Figure it out. We can run 3 OL Americans and 2 cdn receivers still. We just don’t for some reason. The “6th” option could be American. Right now even.

Pokey white Demski Nield (Clercius) and singer for example. Nield or Kevens backs up, Cobb isn’t rostered no need for Daniels either.

Broxton Wallace Vibert Vanty Poncious.

Edited August 24Aug 24 by Goalie

Willie can be our DA.

1 hour ago, Goalie said:

Here’s the thing

Firing Walters does nothing right now. Like it’s business as usual really and possibly worse if McManus is gm in the future , just no there. Just a gut feeling he’d be awful. Other options yes like the Canadian crew but it does nothing to the product on the field.

Firing O’Shea fixes the O’Shea problem but the Tommy problem is still around, the Younger problem is around. I mean after the collapse both our coordinators can go really. If O’Shea goes then Tommy and younger need to also. That does stuff to the on field product. Thing is tho, you need the gm to have that guy in waiting ( call him lapolice) unless it’s Jake , ppl might laugh but he’d be cheaper. So Kyle needs to stay. I’m not overly sure the talent Kyle has brought in is sufficient or not, some haven’t had a proper chance. So, it’s O’Shea and the coaches. Hall sticks around as interim DC for remainder of season as a favour to lapolice then retires.

You can then reevaluate Kyle in the off season and see cuz I’d treat the rest of this season as an extended 27 training camp. That means no Zach no Stan no Kyrie etc. 6 gamed.

And I’m not sure if that talent is sufficient because they all sit on the pr or dress and don’t play. And that’s on O’Shea and the other coaches.

Kyle when he goes after FAs is solid. Kyle when we have a higher 1st is a solid draft guy. All the guys I would like to see play are guys Kyle brought in, Kyle and the scouts. The guys who I think are very good are all mainly Walters signings or draft picks (or scouts)

Demski. Broxton. Brady. Willie was a FA signing. Reese Has some skill. Woodbey is solid. Smith is a drafted Canadian. Williams has been ok as a rookie, the other 3 can be 6 gamed.

wedont always see eye to eye but you are totally on the money here

A new HC tho may help with the co-ord issues by taking away some of their playcalling...Or get in their face....Lots of ways tossing a HC can almost immediately fix some things...

A new guy may also have a sense of urgency and some fire in him....

1 hour ago, Goalie said:

Willie can be our DA.

I agree....but our HC doesn't like the rule and refuse to use it. That there alone...personal beliefs/bias before the team is reason enough to send him packing. Especially when it's a rule that would immensely help us

I'm not sure if this has been discussed in other threads... but why is our defense sooooo bad at 2nd and long situations?... it seems like teams convert like 75% against us when it's 2nd and 8-15.... or at least they get it to 3rd and 1....

25 minutes ago, bearpants said:

I'm not sure if this has been discussed in other threads... but why is our defense sooooo bad at 2nd and long situations?... it seems like teams convert like 75% against us when it's 2nd and 8-15.... or at least they get it to 3rd and 1....

soft scheme...and zero DB aggresion...Just let play come to them as opposed to actually making a play on a ball...passive play not to lose approach...or play with risk....but it's killing us

3 hours ago, Booch said:

we dont know that tho...So to upset the apple cart totally could be catastrophic...Maybe osh is just a arrogant prick behind the facade? Not saying that's the issue...but could be....And the way he reacts sometimes when challenged in media would lead one to maybe think that

I agree tho in season swap this yr won't happen...but end of yr dismissal may. I thik the prudent move is to use elimination in steps...if steps are needed...And more often than not save for a true dumpster fire...The HC goes first...In pretty much any sport and circumstance...Guess we will see

Coaches get stale...message starts to not land, and some just don't evolve. GM duties for most part are what they are...Walters for most part has done well in navigating the SMS pretty much since he started and the overall running of the club...Pooching both is just not the smart move...Thats the desperation move..we arent desperate yet

I have no confidence that the Bombers as an organization can go forward making the moves necessary to improve the team on the field. We're just stuck with our wheels spinning.

18 hours ago, Booch said:

Osh in sny gm capacity and final say in player signing/releasing would be kiss of death and we would be even worse than we are now with badically no hope

The cap thing isnt as big an issue as many think..especially if you just can coach...mid season just interm someone...end of yr find the replacement...we can get out of his salary 2 ways...the previously mentioned escape allowed once...or he signs elsewhere which I sure would happen..and even if not for a yr..so be it..if there's the will there's a way

He's ran his course here..it happens to every successful.. formerly successful coach

This. Walters bears responsibility for his inaction in letting O'Shea run the team into the ground, but the most immediate concern is O'Shea's mishandling of the roster and poor choice of subordinates. Either one is enough to end his employment and I am iffy about Walters but am willing to give him another year and another HC to redeem himself. If he doesn't want to part with O'Shea, then they can go out the door together.

15 minutes ago, Tracker said:

This. Walters bears responsibility for his inaction in letting O'Shea run the team into the ground, but the most immediate concern is O'Shea's mishandling of the roster and poor choice of subordinates. Either one is enough to end his employment and I am iffy about Walters but am willing to give him another year and another HC to redeem himself. If he doesn't want to part with O'Shea, then they can go out the door together.

A million to a million five would probably buy these two turkeys out. We're flush with money & never use it. Well, use it at the end of the season. Just get rid of them.