2-0 is the goal, Jake and that Dline should feast, 15th straight sellout, rain or not.........LETS ******* GO!!!!!!!

Did our much coveted tight end even play?

The scouting thing is part accurate and part such a straw man. It has nothing to do with “who have we cut that had gone on to be good elsewhere” because if you wanna play that silly game, include negotiation lists too.

Until we evaluate guys in camp better and change our approach, we still really have no idea what side of the coin it is. I do think Rigmaiden was a huge loss for us but I also think it’s unfair to place all of the blame on scouting when we bring these guys to camp and then sometimes they don’t even see an opportunity to touch the field. The whole process is a bit flawed and honestly, I think the biggest disconnect is that our coaching staff and front office don’t really even seem aligned on what they value or what they’re looking for.

as an example … what does the process for deciding to draft a guy like Daniels look like? Was that a scouting department preference? Was it an ask for that kind of player by Condell? Something in between? At what point? Because there’s absolutely no reason we couldn’t have found an American to fill the exact same role, probably with a better pedigree and skill set and Daniels offers us no advantage ratio wise, but did we even look? Stevie Rocker came to camp for free lunches for a month, you’re telling me it wouldn’t have been better to see if we could find a big American fullback/tight end type instead?

15 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Did our much coveted tight end even play?

He was in as a blocker a bunch. They used a lot of protection schemes.

45 minutes ago, Mike said:

The scouting thing is part accurate and part such a straw man. It has nothing to do with “who have we cut that had gone on to be good elsewhere” because if you wanna play that silly game, include negotiation lists too.

Until we evaluate guys in camp better and change our approach, we still really have no idea what side of the coin it is. I do think Rigmaiden was a huge loss for us but I also think it’s unfair to place all of the blame on scouting when we bring these guys to camp and then sometimes they don’t even see an opportunity to touch the field. The whole process is a bit flawed and honestly, I think the biggest disconnect is that our coaching staff and front office don’t really even seem aligned on what they value or what they’re looking for.

as an example … what does the process for deciding to draft a guy like Daniels look like? Was that a scouting department preference? Was it an ask for that kind of player by Condell? Something in between? At what point? Because there’s absolutely no reason we couldn’t have found an American to fill the exact same role, probably with a better pedigree and skill set and Daniels offers us no advantage ratio wise, but did we even look? Stevie Rocker came to camp for free lunches for a month, you’re telling me it wouldn’t have been better to see if we could find a big American fullback/tight end type instead?

Daniels is a Canadian so he is a ratio advantage. Yes we could have found a better import in that role but it would have cost us a starter elsewhere.

Just now, Blue In BC said:

Daniels is a Canadian so he is a ratio advantage. Yes we could have found a better import in that role but it would have cost us a starter elsewhere.

My point is that he’s not a ratio advantage when we start more than we need to to begin with.

Regarding the rule changes for next year: in those instances where a field goal was attempted from the 40 yard line or out, how many of them would have resulted in a third down gamble instead of a punt next season? Maybe 1? The others are.punts for sure. Osh punts every time.

This really feels like an intentional way to force us into 4 downs when scoring decreases.

2 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

As always it’s both MOS and KW. Booch outlined several MOS questionable decisions. GC has mentioned that there are several guys KW didn't sign due to $ and JBR mentioned that our US dscouting is subpar which ultimately falls on KW. I'll throw in Wade because he's ultimately responsible for MOS+KW.

Yep, though in this case I think it’s the rest of the front office as well.

KW has never been a main source of imp talent. No doubt he does some work on that, but by far the least of his contributions. Maybe that’s a problem, but he’s always been mainly a canadian scout. For my money, he does a great job of evaluating ni talent. Now our priorities in the draft have been a bit of a mess. but we are still doing pretty well with ni talent, atleast on D and the ol.

The us scouts have not done a good enough job, not by a long shot.

2 hours ago, Mike said:

The scouting thing is part accurate and part such a straw man. It has nothing to do with “who have we cut that had gone on to be good elsewhere” because if you wanna play that silly game, include negotiation lists too.

Until we evaluate guys in camp better and change our approach, we still really have no idea what side of the coin it is. I do think Rigmaiden was a huge loss for us but I also think it’s unfair to place all of the blame on scouting when we bring these guys to camp and then sometimes they don’t even see an opportunity to touch the field. The whole process is a bit flawed and honestly, I think the biggest disconnect is that our coaching staff and front office don’t really even seem aligned on what they value or what they’re looking for.

as an example … what does the process for deciding to draft a guy like Daniels look like? Was that a scouting department preference? Was it an ask for that kind of player by Condell? Something in between? At what point? Because there’s absolutely no reason we couldn’t have found an American to fill the exact same role, probably with a better pedigree and skill set and Daniels offers us no advantage ratio wise, but did we even look? Stevie Rocker came to camp for free lunches for a month, you’re telling me it wouldn’t have been better to see if we could find a big American fullback/tight end type instead?

The weird thing is they think they are simpatico. Like there's no wrinkle in the fabric at all. But since McManus took over the US side we've barely been able to find even average CFL players.

Development is part of it too, but the American guys in most positions are kind of sink or swim. You're ready to play, or you're not.

We have no DL, no receivers, not really any DB's (we've been recycling other teams cuts and vets they are moving on from), no real QB prospects out of the US, no LB's making plays, a couple OL but mostly guys recycled from other teams camps again, since McManus took over on the US side.

It should not be this hard to find DL who can play in this league. We should never go from having an average guy in there to being absolutely dummied when we have to change him out (I'd say that's what it looked like going from Dixon to Fletcher, combined with the shift of Ceresna taking more edge reps) for another American guy.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by JuranBoldenRules

3 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

As always its both MOS and KW. Booch outlined several MOS questionable decisions. GC has mentioned that there are several guys KW didn't sign due to $ and JBR mentioned that our US scouting is subpar which ultimately falls on KW. I'll throw in Wade because he's ultimately responsible for MOS+KW.

Yeah collectively they need to be better.. be able to make the tuff decisions..if it steps on toes or hurts egos..so be it...part of the business they signed up for...and if they can't do it..step aside..or get put aside

2 hours ago, Mike said:

The scouting thing is part accurate and part such a straw man. It has nothing to do with “who have we cut that had gone on to be good elsewhere” because if you wanna play that silly game, include negotiation lists too.

Until we evaluate guys in camp better and change our approach, we still really have no idea what side of the coin it is. I do think Rigmaiden was a huge loss for us but I also think it’s unfair to place all of the blame on scouting when we bring these guys to camp and then sometimes they don’t even see an opportunity to touch the field. The whole process is a bit flawed and honestly, I think the biggest disconnect is that our coaching staff and front office don’t really even seem aligned on what they value or what they’re looking for.

as an example … what does the process for deciding to draft a guy like Daniels look like? Was that a scouting department preference? Was it an ask for that kind of player by Condell? Something in between? At what point? Because there’s absolutely no reason we couldn’t have found an American to fill the exact same role, probably with a better pedigree and skill set and Daniels offers us no advantage ratio wise, but did we even look? Stevie Rocker came to camp for free lunches for a month, you’re telling me it wouldn’t have been better to see if we could find a big American fullback/tight end type instead?

And then dont get starteded on the poor use...and allocation of guys on the PR...Ours right now makes no sense

Edited 28 minutes ago28 min by Booch

2 hours ago, Mike said:

My point is that he’s not a ratio advantage when we start more than we need to to begin with.

Ratio advantage if yeah a starter...and u have a backup to compliment..right now he just an end of roster guy

We used multiple looks with him and Eli at same time..we could have done same with one of MCI or Clercius when healthy and used that pick on a legit reciever to compliment what we have and be able to pooch Cobb and Corc's or grabbed another defensive guy who can actually play...not just run up and down field covering kicks

If anything thats the easiest thing to do on a roster...so picking scrubs with no upside is just a waste really

1 hour ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Regarding the rule changes for next year: in those instances where a field goal was attempted from the 40 yard line or out, how many of them would have resulted in a third down gamble instead of a punt next season? Maybe 1? The others are.punts for sure. Osh punts every time.

This really feels like an intentional way to force us into 4 downs when scoring decreases.

Osh lost his plans.. when is last time he did anything unpredictable or against the grain? Besides crappy roster choices

46 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Yep, though in this case I think it’s the rest of the front office as well.

KW has never been a main source of imp talent. No doubt he does some work on that, but by far the least of his contributions. Maybe that’s a problem, but he’s always been mainly a canadian scout. For my money, he does a great job of evaluating ni talent. Now our priorities in the draft have been a bit of a mess. but we are still doing pretty well with ni talent, atleast on D and the ol.

The us scouts have not done a good enough job, not by a long shot.

We have no plan...or is it poor arcitecture? We have this dumb idea we can go 3 national recievwrs..so we hold 3 imports on the PR...ass backwards

39 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

The weird thing is they think they are simpatico. Like there's no wrinkle in the fabric at all. But since McManus took over the US side we've barely been able to find even average CFL players.

Development is part of it too, but the American guys in most positions are kind of sink or swim. You're ready to play, or you're not.

We have no DL, no receivers, not really any DB's (we've been recycling other teams cuts and vets they are moving on from), no real QB prospects out of the US, no LB's making plays, a couple OL but mostly guys recycled from other teams camps again, since McManus took over on the US side.

It should not be this hard to find DL who can play in this league. We should never go from having an average guy in there to being absolutely dummied when we have to change him out (I'd say that's what it looked like going from Dixon to Fletcher, combined with the shift of Ceresna taking more edge reps) for another American guy.

Thing is its easy...we just dont give new or young guys the opportunity...and play tires with no tread basically right up to the steel belts

2 hours ago, Blue In BC said:

Daniels is a Canadian so he is a ratio advantage. Yes we could have found a better import in that role but it would have cost us a starter elsewhere.

Not really how the ratio works. Daniels doesn't start either. All the "starting" issue means is we're locked into 6 Canadians on the field every snap on O and 2 on D.

He plays kickoff return but no cover teams, and basically plays 6 OL on offense. So really he's the 7th OL for how he's being utilized.

If they really want that H-back/TE role as being crucial to offense, why not use an American there who can do the job and force teams to actually have to cover the guy when he's out there? There are a ton of American guys who are tweener receiving tight ends who would be actually useful.

It would cost a DI spot which would mean instead of Ayers chasing kicks you swap out Daniels for another Canadian who can actually play special teams and Ayers for the American tight end.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by JuranBoldenRules

20 minutes ago, Booch said:

Thing is its easy...we just dont give new or young guys the opportunity...and play tires with no tread basically right up to the steel belts

This is only partially true though. Look at the DL. We've given multiple "young guys" 2-3 years and they all stink. No one has emerged as a difference maker.

Adams, Woods, Garbutt, Haba, Fox, Walker. An even longer list of guys we ran for half seasons, Wilcots, Cooper, K Adams.

Now the crew this year, Dixon, Jenkins, Fletcher, Reese.

Best guy of that bunch is probably Fox who is just an average CFL player at his best to this point.

Not really any playmakers yet. Hope the crew here now can turn that page. Looks to me like a major issue is recruiting the right guys in the first place.

17 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

This is only partially true though. Look at the DL. We've given multiple "young guys" 2-3 years and they all stink. No one has emerged as a difference maker.

Adams, Woods, Garbutt, Haba, Fox, Walker. An even longer list of guys we ran for half seasons, Wilcots, Cooper, K Adams.

Now the crew this year, Dixon, Jenkins, Fletcher, Reese.

Best guy of that bunch is probably Fox who is just an average CFL player at his best to this point.

Not really any playmakers yet. Hope the crew here now can turn that page. Looks to me like a major issue is recruiting the right guys in the first place.

Adams..Fox and Garbutt all still on a roster..tho Garbutt is hurt

Thing is we let Dobson walk and chose to keep Kolo instead..obviously our HC valued him over the younger better guy...and we didn't lose him to $$ issues..was poor decision making...easy fix..cut Kolo and his 165k salary he stole here...funnel it to Dobson and kick in a few scheckles but we chose to keep the lesser player...and thats not isolated incident.

We used to find dline talent..but we also played them right outta the gate while a lesser JT was last in line..Poop...Bryant..Stove..

Then we relied on JT..Scmeck..Korn and figured we were "good and deep" never targeted some prime FA'S who coulda turned the tide and guys we did bring in had to scratch and claw for any reps while JT and Scmeck/Korn gobbled up the lionshare...pretty hard to develop and evaluate guys on minimal reps

Best thing to do this yr is let Dixon..Reese..Fletcher get game experience early and often and see where they at in 4..5 games..and if we need better than get someone else up here..we just break camp and settle witu who we picked come hell or high water..that just baffles me